Commercial Manned Space Flights II: Galactic Boogaloo

[Alberon]

There's been a little bit of a lull in SpaceX's Starship launches as they prepare for the first orbital test in the next couple of months.

Meanwhile, Boeing finally gets to make a second attempt of launching its equivalent of SpaceX's Dragon capsule - the Starliner. The first launch ended early after software fuckups meant it couldn't attempt a docking at the International Space Station. It transpired that they had never run a complete dummy run of the systems and software errors caused the capsule to think it was later in the mission than it was and burn nearly all of its fuel. Further errors that might have led to a loss of vehicle were found and corrected before reentry.

Now nearly two years after the first test flight the second unmanned test is on its way to the launch pad.



All being well (and this is Boeing remember) it should launch tomorrow (Tuesday 3rd) at about 6.20pm British time. If it works it will be followed by a manned test and then America should have two independent systems to put people in space.

[All Surrogate]

It transpired that they had never run a complete dummy run of the systems ...

I mean, how on (or off, lol) earth can this not have been done?! It boggles the mind.

[Alberon]

They'd run it in parts but never a complete run through. Your reaction is pretty much what the rest of the industry thought.

Boeing got very complacent and lazy. This and the plane crashes they've suffered hopefully shook them out of it.

[Uncle TechTip]

Obviously stakes are lower but they never did a complete dummy run of the "7 minutes of terror" landing sequence for Curiosity. They tested all the component software in isolation but had never run the complete sequence until it arrived at Mars. Obviously this is a different level but maybe not so surprising. I guess nobody will criticise development approaches if they work.

[Blumf]

Meanwhile, Boeing finally gets to make a second attempt of launching its equivalent of SpaceX's Dragon capsule - the Starliner. The first launch ended early after software fuckups meant it couldn't attempt a docking at the International Space Station. It transpired that they had never run a complete dummy run of the systems and software errors caused the capsule to think it was later in the mission than it was and burn nearly all of its fuel. Further errors that might have led to a loss of vehicle were found and corrected before reentry.

Even funnier, is that this launch has been delayed because the docking of a new Russian science module on the ISS went haywire and set off it's thrusters, flipping the station arse-over-tit until the module's fuel ran out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTR5evpFLb4

[Alberon]

Launch attempt off for today.

Controllers had been targeting Tuesday for the launch but scrubbed the countdown with two-and-a-half hours left on the clock, to allow for investigation of technical issues related to the capsule's propulsion system.

They could try again tomorrow.

[Fambo Number Mive]

How much pollution does one of these launches cause?

[Alberon]

This particular rocket - the Atlas V - uses kerosene and liquid oxygen in its first stage and liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen in its second.

When rockets launch into space, they require a huge amount of propellants to make it out of the Earth's atmosphere. For SpaceX's Falcon 9 rocket, it is kerosene, and for Nasa it is liquid hydrogen in their new Space Launch System. Those fuels emit a variety of substances into the atmosphere, including carbon dioxide, water, chlorine and other chemicals.

The carbon emissions from rockets are small compared with the aircraft industry, she says. But they are increasing at nearly 5.6% a year, and Marais has been running a simulation for a decade, to figure out at what point will they compete with traditional sources we are familiar with.

"For one long-haul plane flight it's one to three tons of carbon dioxide [per passenger]," says Marais. For one rocket launch 200-300 tonnes of carbon dioxide are split between 4 or so passengers, according to Marais. "So it doesn't need to grow that much more to compete with other sources."

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/jul/19/billionaires-space-tourism-environment-emissions

It's hard to see how to get that figure down. Presumably a hypersonic jet system could replace a first stage and reduce pollution, but getting better than that would probably require building a space elevator and that's seriously beyond us right now.

[steve98]

I didn't think it was that far beyond us (I  imagined a space elevator might be something Trump might like to build. But naah.)

[All Surrogate]

As far as I'm aware, for the materials that may just about be strong enough to build a space elevator, we don't have the technology to make long enough cables. So it doesn't seem feasible, unfortunately, as space elevators are cool.

[steve98]

Ever since man first slipped the surly bonds of Earth I've dreamed of becoming a space-elevator operator* (like my dad, pic); but it seems the dreams as far away now as ever :(

* At 9 I even had a cardboard mock-up of a Nasa elevator with a touch-sensitive control panel and everything.

[evilcommiedictator]

As far as I'm aware, for the materials that may just about be strong enough to build a space elevator, we don't have the technology to make long enough cables. So it doesn't seem feasible, unfortunately, as space elevators are cool.

The other problem is where you can build it - I remember reading something about swaying* and because of that you need to build it on the Equator, now, which countries can do that again :(

[Captain Z]

but for goodness sake, who's to say there's going to be a strong wind?

[steve98]

Just believe.

[Shit Good Nose]

I'd prefer to take the space stairs.

[Blumf]

Everyday Astronaut has got a big interview/tour of SpaceX with Elon Musk. First part is out here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t705r8ICkRw&pp=sAQA (1 hour)

Grab your Kleenexes!

Actually, quite interesting, Both for general technical details and seeing how Musk's mind works.

The other problem is where you can build it - I remember reading something about swaying* and because of that you need to build it on the Equator, now, which countries can do that again :(

A space elevator base would probably be built on open water rather than land, so you can skim it around a bit.

[Blumf]

I'd prefer to take the space stairs.

That'd be just under a million steps to LEO[nb]Typical step ~220mm, LEO ~200Km[/nb]. I reckon that's doable, if you want to Capt. Tom it. 1000 steps a day, 1000 days.

Now I've told you all that, if you don't, you hate the NHS!!

[idunnosomename]

I'd prefer to slam dunk in the space jam.

[imitationleather]

Who would you least like to get stuck in a space elevator with?

I'm going for a tie between Elon Musk and Sidney Cooke.

[Alberon]

The Starliner launch has been called off and the whole thing will be taken back to the assembly bay.

It seems some valves in the capsule's (not the rocket's) propulsion system are stuck in the wrong configuration for launch.

Even if the issue is solved quickly it might be a while before another attempt at a launch is made. There's a bit of congestion over docking at the ISS over the next couple of months and, obviously, active missions have a far greater priority over a demo flight.

[Aaron500]

Boeing are wasting our time here, lads.

[Shit Good Nose]

Who would you least like to get stuck in a space elevator with?

I'm going for a tie between Elon Musk and Sidney Cooke.

I imagine a trip in the space elevator would take at least a few minutes, which is of course an eternity in an elevator situation.  That being the case, I'd hate to share it with anyone who is very guffy.  Some of the air will almost certainly be recycled after all.

[Alberon]

Meanwhile at SpaceX

SN20 has, briefly, been put on top of Booster 4.



They took it off again, I'm not sure why at the moment, but it is another small step forward.

SN20 is darker than previous test vehicles as it is mostly covered with heat resistant tiles. If static firing and cryo tests are successful it'll be these vehicles that carry out the first orbital test of the Starship system.

[Blumf]

Virgin Galactic seats going for USD450,000 (~GBP350,000), expected slots starting late next year, after a couple more test flights.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/virgin-galactic-rocket-plane-price-tag-commercial-flights/

More than 600 space enthusiasts made down payments on flights much earlier in the program, back when tickets were thought to be in the neighborhood of $250,000 per seat. The prices announced Thursday presumably will apply to new customers only.

[Blumf]

Everyday Astronaut has got a big interview/tour of SpaceX with Elon Musk. First part is out here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t705r8ICkRw&pp=sAQA (1 hour)

Part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA8ZBJWo73E (1 hour)

Some nice close up views of various parts; a job lot of Raptor engines, the new design nose cone, a doggie.

[Fambo Number Mive]

Imagine a load of ultra rich bastards shooting into space but a xenomorph got trapped on board by mistake.

[All Surrogate]

This is the one thing we did want to happen.

[Alberon]

An update on Boeing's Starliner's problems.

It's now clear thirteen valves failed to open in the capsule. If these valves malfunction it can stop the thrusters working in orbit (or, just as bad, may lead to thrusters being stuck on). They also supply the escape thrusters in any aborted take-off.

Seven of these valves are now working again, but engineers still have no idea why it happened and until an explanation can be found and a fix implemented the Starliner will not fly. Boeing had initially blamed a lightning storm, but has since backed away from that claim.

The docking port on the ISS that this test flight would have used is about to be occupied by a cargo module so there's a good chance that the second test flight will be delayed until next year.

Meanwhile SpaceX has flown humans to the space station three times already.

[Dex Sawash]

Keith Starliner

[Blumf]

Everyday Astronaut has got a big interview/tour of SpaceX with Elon Musk. First part is out here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t705r8ICkRw&pp=sAQA (1 hour)

Part 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA8ZBJWo73E (1 hour)

Some nice close up views of various parts; a job lot of Raptor engines, the new design nose cone, a doggie.

Part 3 (final):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Zlnbs-NBUI (20 mins)

Okay, we're seeing the cult here. Bunch of people I would not like to work with, although this is probably just normal in US workplace terms. Bloody weirdos over there.

Anyway, we get close and personal with the launch table here. They're jacking stuff up and preparing for a big weld job.