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March 29, 2024, 12:10:15 PM

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The Matrix films (or how/why did the Wachowskis muck up the sequels so badly?)

Started by Blinder Data, August 09, 2021, 05:17:53 PM

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Custard

I remember lots of laffs in the audience I was in when, in Revolutions, there was this big action sequence, then it cut to Neo still sat on his arse at the train station, in total silence, looking really gormless

greenman

Quote from: Replies From View on August 11, 2021, 04:13:11 PM
One thing I never really understood about the Matrix sequels was why multiple Smiths were no more of a threat than just the one of them.  It seemed that every time Smith copied himself the total number of them didn't grow in power, yet in the third film only one Smith fought Neo and they were evenly matched again. 

Conceptually it seems so confused within itself, like it doesn't know what it wants to be, yet I can't believe the Wachowskis failed to think this through on some level.

The one Smith was I believe the taken over Oracle and so somehow more powerful?

badaids


I assume everyone else in the UK had to put up with groups cunts suddenly appearing and mincing around the place wearing long leather overcoats, small dark glasses and impenetrable expressions on their faces.

Replies From View

Quote from: greenman on August 11, 2021, 07:18:24 PM
The one Smith was I believe the taken over Oracle and so somehow more powerful?

Oh was the code not copied over to all of them?


That's quite funny then because it means each of the Smiths would have had traits of whoever they'd taken over, and so some of them would probably tend towards quite mundane office jobs or leading crafting workshops.

Replies From View

Quote from: badaids on August 11, 2021, 07:35:44 PM
I assume everyone else in the UK had to put up with groups cunts suddenly appearing and mincing around the place wearing long leather overcoats, small dark glasses and impenetrable expressions on their faces.

Yeah, this happened.  It was The Blues Brothers all over again.

bakabaka

Quote from: badaids on August 11, 2021, 07:35:44 PM
I assume everyone else in the UK had to put up with groups cunts suddenly appearing and mincing around the place wearing long leather overcoats, small dark glasses and impenetrable expressions on their faces.
Wonderful to watch them trying to walk on windy days as their lightweight, knockoff coats acted as sails, tried to trip them and slapped anyone passing in the balls.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Quote from: Replies From View on August 11, 2021, 07:55:34 PM
Oh was the code not copied over to all of them?

That's quite funny then because it means each of the Smiths would have had traits of whoever they'd taken over, and so some of them would probably tend towards quite mundane office jobs or leading crafting workshops.
It also implies that the Oracle could fly around, doing kung fu fighting.

Replies From View

Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on August 11, 2021, 08:10:15 PM
It also implies that the Oracle could fly around, doing kung fu fighting.

Also Smith was already talking about what had been foreseen and stuff being inevitable before he absorbed the Oracle.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth


Custard

Another funny bit was when during their big final fight in the rain, there's slo-mo of Neo punching through a raindrop and it connecting with Smith's face, who does a brilliant gurn

Best film ever

badaids

Do we get to blame The Matrix for the proliferation of Clubbed to Death?

Thanks to this thread I'm rewatching Reloaded right now.  An exciting opening is really ruined by all the exposition, shitty CGI and the bit where he flies off.  Should have just cut it after the ground rippling - that in itself served as a signpost that Neo has no mastered the matrix.

Remind me - is the the one with the sort of underground illegal rave scene that goes on forever?

Ugggggh and that fucking drippy kid who idolises Neo.

Custard


badaids

Quote from: Shameless Custard on August 11, 2021, 09:02:12 PM
Yes. Will be with you shortly. Do enjoy, Sir

Does this mean you're going to watch too?  If so, confirm and I'll pause and wait for you.  HOW EXCITING.

badaids


badaids


I wonder what is looks like on Blu-ray or UHD.  Some of the physical sets and green screen looks as hokey as fuck.

badaids


Oh no, it's the rave scene.  It would be far better if someone dubbed over The Levellers or the Ozric Tentacles.  This is utterly pointless and completely terrible.  You could probably cut the last 12 minutes and lose nothing.

Custard

It's to show you the stakes, maaaaan. THERES REAL PEOPLE DOWN THERE MAAAAAN!


PlanktonSideburns

Quote from: Gulftastic on August 11, 2021, 02:31:47 PM
The films would have been more interesting if instead of Neo being the One, it turned out to be Brian Blessed

badaids

I had forgotten how much I did and still do despise all the people in Zion, and how much punishment they deserve for displacing the native Doozers from Fraggle Rock and stealing their home.  I'm totally rooting for the machines to wipe them out at this point.

40 minutes in and absolutely fuck all has moved on from what happened in the first 3 minutes.

This is Star Trek The Next Generation of the Dump.

badaids


The bongo music in the bit when Neo fights the Seraph or whatever the fuck he's called sounds like the Necromancy bit in Vic and Bob's Cottage Cheese song.

Replies From View

Quote from: badaids on August 11, 2021, 09:00:51 PM
Should have just cut it after the ground rippling - that in itself served as a signpost that Neo has no mastered the matrix.

What new thing had he mastered?  He had already done a zen breathing wall-flexing thing in the first film.



badaids

Quote from: Replies From View on August 11, 2021, 09:29:28 PM
What new thing had he mastered?  He had already done a zen breathing wall-flexing thing in the first film.



You're right.  Mastering is not the right word.  I think what I mean, is that the ripple is just a reminder that he is really powerful, just as it was in the first film.  It didn't need all the silly flying abaht.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

What are the Zionions even rebelling against? Even if the world outside it wasn't completely horrible, what's so terrible about living in the Matrix? Neo goes clubbing in the first film, so it's not like Zion wins any points for the rave scene. He freaks out about being used as a battery, but it doesn't actually seem to do anyone any real harm (although the Soylent Green-esque drip feed is minging).

Joey Pants had the right idea, I reckon.

badaids

Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on August 11, 2021, 09:42:12 PM
What are the Zionions even rebelling against? Even if the world outside it wasn't completely horrible, what's so terrible about living in the Matrix? Neo goes clubbing in the first film, so it's not like Zion wins any points for the rave scene. He freaks out about being used as a battery, but it doesn't actually seem to do anyone any real harm (although the Soylent Green-esque drip feed is minging).

Joey Pants had the right idea, I reckon.

As much as I loved the first film, this was exactly my conclusion.

The fight scene with all the Smiths is excruciatingly shit.  It's clear that it's one of the first ideas they came up with and then shoehorned it in.  It doesn't even count for anything as he just flies off at the end.  And it goes on for nearly 10 minutes!

badaids


The freeway chase scene is much better than I remembered, thrilling even, even though it's used an a excuse for even more unnecessary fight scenes.  The criticism that there is no destination is a fair one, but I think the premise that they are getting to the phone is enough. 

Replies From View

Quote from: badaids on August 11, 2021, 09:48:35 PM
It doesn't even count for anything as he just flies off at the end.  And it goes on for nearly 10 minutes!

Which scenes do count for anything in the Matrix sequels?

Replies From View

Quote from: badaids on August 11, 2021, 10:29:46 PM
The freeway chase scene is much better than I remembered, thrilling even, even though it's used an a excuse for even more unnecessary fight scenes.  The criticism that there is no destination is a fair one, but I think the premise that they are getting to the phone is enough.

A good version of the scene would involve a sense of destination, geography, anything to tell you how much they have left of their journey.  Compare it with every occasion in the first film where someone needs to get to a phone, and it's handled so expertly.

As one of the critics in the critics commentary says:  "Now there are moments that have impact, but fundamentally, where are they going?"


badaids

Quote from: Replies From View on August 11, 2021, 10:32:14 PM
A good version of the scene would involve a sense of destination, geography, anything to tell you how much they have left of their journey.

As one of the critics in the critics commentary says:  "Now there are moments that have impact, but fundamentally, where are they going?"

I totally agree with that.  It would take a good scene and make it great.  I think that this criticism can be applied to virtually every scene in the film.  It all just add to my theory that the Ws conceived the ideas for the big scenes before there was any plot and then tried to place in them in the mess they had come up with.