Doctor Who Series 13: Goodbye, Mr. Chibs

[Replies From View]

It's not meant to be a brilliant twist, it's just an alien whose name sounds amusingly like a mundane human name, and the Doctor uses that as a way to try and knock his confidence in a silly way.

But Chibnall came up with both.  It doesn't need to be a brilliant twist to be good - I didn't really mean it like that - I just mean that it's not witty or clever or anything really to do exactly this:

"Ok I want an episode where the Doctor repeats the name Tim Shaw because the name Tim Shaw is inherently funny.  So the alien name will be... I've got it, Blim Tor.  Then when the alien says it, hey presto the Doctor will pretend to mishear it and Tim Shaw will get into the episode!  There is no denying that I am so fucking great at television!!"



If on the other hand he'd taken an established phrase and pulled off that feat, it would have still been utter shite in my opinion, but one level higher in the basic mechanical aspects of humour, in the sense of shedding a new light on what had been under our noses our entire lives.

So for example if she'd met Osama Bin Laden (in an episode about being respectfully complicit in recent-ish historical atrocities) and called him "Osama Tim Shaw-den????!!!" you'd have still got your hilarious Tim Shaw shoehorned in, with the original name not sounding so obviously contrived to get there in the first place.

[mjwilson]

Yeah, it works as a throwaway gag. The only other time I can remember laughing at anything Chris Chibnall has written (yes, I know) was in The Ghost Monument when Ryan (who has vertigo, remember? Keep up!)

I thought it was dyspraxia (during those moments when it wasn't inconvenient for the plot).

[mjwilson]

Yeah, it works as a throwaway gag.

Alternatively it is just about bordering on racist to tease an alien for having an alien-sounding name.

(I don't think it is super racist or anything but I find the joke slightly uncomfortable.)

[Replies From View]

I don't mind what we call it, as long as we all agree that it's shite and people stop saying it's even vaguely good.

[JamesTC]

Would love it if Chibnall did an episode with The Doctor meeting Osama Bin Laden. One of the companions wants to knock him out, but The Doctor stops them and says 9/11 must go ahead because it is a fixed point in history.

[mothman]

just want to get a word in at this juncture to say capaldi's outfit really suited her and i fucking loathe her adult baby's outfit she's gone with without variation for the entire run

Yeah. I'd sooner she have that outfit she wore for her reveal film.



Hell, I'd almost sooner she had Smith's pirate outfit.



OK maybe not.

[pigamus]

But Chibnall came up with both.  It doesn't need to be a brilliant twist to be good - I didn't really mean it like that - I just mean that it's not witty or clever or anything really to do exactly this:

"Ok I want an episode where the Doctor repeats the name Tim Shaw because the name Tim Shaw is inherently funny.  So the alien name will be... I've got it, Blim Tor.  Then when the alien says it, hey presto the Doctor will pretend to mishear it and Tim Shaw will get into the episode!  There is no denying that I am so fucking great at television!!"



If on the other hand he'd taken an established phrase and pulled off that feat, it would have still been utter shite in my opinion, but one level higher in the basic mechanical aspects of humour, in the sense of shedding a new light on what had been under our noses our entire lives.

So for example if she'd met Osama Bin Laden (in an episode about being respectfully complicit in recent-ish historical atrocities) and called him "Osama Tim Shaw-den????!!!" you'd have still got your hilarious Tim Shaw shoehorned in, with the original name not sounding so obviously contrived to get there in the first place.

I think you're overthinking it a bit. Like purlieu says, it's just an alien name that sounds amusingly like a twee English one. That's it. He was probably playing with a Klingon type of name I would imagine.

[Blofelds Cat]

Yeah. I'd sooner she have that outfit she wore for her reveal film.

Arguably her best performance in the show probably because she didnt open her gob...

[purlieu]

But Chibnall came up with both.  It doesn't need to be a brilliant twist to be good - I didn't really mean it like that - I just mean that it's not witty or clever or anything really to do exactly this:

"Ok I want an episode where the Doctor repeats the name Tim Shaw because the name Tim Shaw is inherently funny.  So the alien name will be... I've got it, Blim Tor.  Then when the alien says it, hey presto the Doctor will pretend to mishear it and Tim Shaw will get into the episode!

Tim Shaw isn't meant to be an inherently funny name, he just gave the alien a name that sounds a bit like a mundane human name and the Doctor used that to wind up the alien, which is where the humour comes from. It's not 'clever', it's just a silly throwaway gag.

[daf]

'Bathos' is the term, I think - like when Morrissey had Joan of Arc wearing a walkman.

Bathos is an abrupt transition in style from the exalted to the commonplace, producing a ludicrous effect. While often unintended, bathos may be used deliberately to produce a humorous effect.

[Mister Six]

But Chibnall came up with both.  It doesn't need to be a brilliant twist to be good - I didn't really mean it like that - I just mean that it's not witty or clever or anything

It doesn't have to be witty or clever to be good either. It's perfectly fine to be a little throwaway joke that undermines the villain in a surprising way. Which it is - the heroes mishearing his name as "Tim Shaw" wasn't something I was expect during the scene, and I imagine it's the same for the others who responded favourably.

Ok I want an episode where the Doctor repeats the name Tim Shaw because the name Tim Shaw is inherently funny. ...

So for example if she'd met Osama Bin Laden (in an episode about being respectfully complicit in recent-ish historical atrocities) and called him "Osama Tim Shaw-den????!!!" you'd have still got your hilarious Tim Shaw shoehorned in, with the original name not sounding so obviously contrived to get there in the first place.

You seem to fundamentally misunderstand this whole thing. Nobody thinks "Tim Shaw" is a funny name in of itself. The point is that it's a completely mundane name that is incongruous when applied to a creepy alien baddie with teeth sticking out of his face. The possibility that an alien being might have a very boring white British name creates a friction between two very different assumptions (aliens have weird names, people called Tim Shaw are just regular folk), and from thence the humour arises, ahhh.

The Doctor then uses the name to goad the baddie, which isn't funny but is a character moment to show her getting him off guard.

Your suggestion doesn't make sense and isn't funny because (A) Tim Shaw is not an inherently humorous name in of itself, (B) it doesn't sound like Osama bin Laden, (C) everyone knows who Osama bin Laden is and what his name sounds like, (D) there's nothing incongruous about a terrorist potentially being called Tim Shaw.

I agree with you about a lot of Who stuff, but you're sounding a bit deranged here. Is it because your real name is Tim Shaw? And you have teeth sticking out of your face?

[Midas]

So for example if she'd met Osama Bin Laden (in an episode about being respectfully complicit in recent-ish historical atrocities) and called him "Osama Bin Liner????!!!" you'd have still got your hilarious Bin Liner shoehorned in, with the original name not sounding so obviously contrived to get there in the first place.

So for example if she'd met Adolf Hitler (in an episode about being respectfully complicit in recent-ish historical atrocities) and called him "Adolf Shitler????!!!" you'd have still got your hilarious Shitler shoehorned in, with the original name not sounding so obviously contrived to get there in the first place.

So for example if she'd met Tony Blair (in an episode about being respectfully complicit in recent-ish historical atrocities) and called him "WAR CRIMINAL????!!!" you'd have still got your hilarious WAR CRIMINAL shoehorned in, with the original name not sounding so obviously contrived to get there in the first place.

[mothman]

Crikey, wish I hadn't mentioned it now! Purly and Mr6's interpretations match my own. Plus of course you have the alien being a bit full of himself, so it's rather like Ten mocking the Sontarans' height, I guess.

Should we be laughing at the physical attributes of other races, or if their name sounds funny or a bit like a funny name or word? Probably not, when put like that...

[Midas]

Aye, it's a bit rum.

[Deanjam]

Hell, I'd almost sooner she had Smith's pirate outfit.



OK maybe not.

He looks thrilled with that.

[BritishHobo]

Do we reckon there'll be a little exciting return of all of Chibnall's baddies for his finale? Tim Shaw, Mr Big Donald Trump, the racist fella from the future, all of them.

[mjwilson]

Do we reckon there'll be a little exciting return of all of Chibnall's baddies for his finale? Tim Shaw, Mr Big Donald Trump, the racist fella from the future, all of them.

I hope the frog on the chair comes back.

[Midas]

wonder if them talking rags in the desert will come back

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Do we reckon there'll be a little exciting return of all of Chibnall's baddies for his finale? Tim Shaw, Mr Big Donald Trump, the racist fella from the future, all of them.

Oh God, he probably won't be able to resist that. He seems to think Not–Trump is a great, funny character, but I can't recall a single thing he did during his second appearance on the show. Nothing against the actor, he does what he can with such a shit role; which is pretty much by default position on any decent actor who's appeared during Chibnall's run.

As for Racist Time Fonz, it's weird that he never came back. Not that I wanted him to, but didn't the Rosa Parks episode sort of imply that he'd be a recurring villain? That's my hazy memory anyway.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

I hope the frog on the chair comes back.

I'd love to see that Mah Benneh woman again. Or did she die? It's just so hard to remember anything about Chiball–era episodes.

[Midas]

why does muscleman stick teeth in his face anyway

why has his species evolved, through natural selection, the ability to stick decorative teeth in their faces

makes no sense

[daf]

I'd love to see that Mah Benneh woman again. Or did she die? It's just so hard to remember anything about Chiball–era episodes.

Weirdly, that's the only edition I've saved on my TV box.

Couldn't quite believe it was actually happening at the time - so I think I'm keeping it as a sort of Doctor Who 'Ground Zero'.

[pigamus]

why does muscleman stick teeth in his face anyway

I like Howard Jones but it's not his best

[Mister Six]

Weirdly, that's the only edition I've saved on my TV box.

Couldn't quite believe it was actually happening at the time - so I think I'm keeping it as a sort of Doctor Who 'Ground Zero'.

Orphan 55 is incredibly, astoundingly bad - but the first 5-10 minutes are really quite funny and enjoyable. I'd be fascinated to know what percentage of the final product is Chibnall fucking everything up as he always does.

Likewise, the morally incoherent conclusion of Kerblam! - on reflection, I think that's almost certainly Chibnall being too thick to understand any degree of ambiguity or complexity in a work, while also having a totally broken moral compass, and rewriting the ending in accordance with whatever his sputtering neurons were managing to put out that day.

I don't think I've ever held a writer in quite this much contempt before. I don't like it.

[olliebean]

Of course Chibnall's nonsense alien names are precisely the sort of thing RTD was taking the piss out of when he named the Slitheen's home world Raxacoricofallapatorius.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Likewise, the morally incoherent conclusion of Kerblam! - on reflection, I think that's almost certainly Chibnall being too thick to understand any degree of ambiguity or complexity in a work, while also having a totally broken moral compass, and rewriting the ending in accordance with whatever his sputtering neurons were managing to put out that day.

That is almost certainly what happened, because most of Kerblam! - again, this is my hazy memory talking - is a pretty unambiguous critique of Amazon and big corporations generally. Isn't it? I do remember feeling at the time that it had a bit more bite than the blandness we were used to. Relatively speaking anyway.

It's certainly possible that Peter McTighe fucked it all up on his own, but how can any rational person write 40 minutes of This Is A Bad Thing followed by 10 minutes which completely undermine the message they were clearly trying to get across? I may be giving McTighe too much credit here, but that just doesn't make any sense.

I don't think I've ever held a writer in quite this much contempt before. I don't like it.

Me neither.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Of course Chibnall's nonsense alien names are precisely the sort of thing RTD was taking the piss out of when he named the Slitheen's home world Raxacoricofallapatorius.

And even that, while being deliberately daft and unwieldy, is memorable. It's also pleasing to say out loud, it has a similar rhythm to that famous nonsense word from Mary Poppins that I can't be bothered to spell properly.

[Lungpuddle]

And even that, while being deliberately daft and unwieldy, is memorable. It's also pleasing to say out loud, it has a similar rhythm to that famous nonsense word from Mary Poppins that I can't be bothered to spell properly.

It reminds me of the Bibbidi-Bobbidi-Boo song, particularly the salagadoola bit. Yep, had to use Google to remind myself what the actual word was as my brain was going "raxacorico, fallapatorius, bibbidi-bobbidi-boo."

[Midas]

This is obviously speculation but I think what happened with Kerblam! is the writer watched that interview with Charlie Brooker on YouTube, where Brooker mentioned how in Black Mirror (to paraphrase) "it usually isn't technology itself that causes problems but the people using it" and thought "Oh! I could do that with Doctor Who!"

The whole Robots of Death set-up feels like it was clumsily written backwards from that idea, so the writer can pull the rug out from under our feet and deliver that little nugget of (flawed) wisdom, irrespective of the ramifications it has for the characters (or the meaning we're expected to gleam from it). It's just hackwork.

[Replies From View]

I agree with you about a lot of Who stuff, but you're sounding a bit deranged here. Is it because your real name is Tim Shaw? And you have teeth sticking out of your face?

If you want to gaslight me then don't joke around it and make it passive - tell me you think I'm deranged and be properly aggressive with it.


We just don't agree that it was a good joke - that's all really.  I was just trying to suggest some ways that would painfully, mechanically, fix what didn't work about that shit joke.  I know my 'fix' was still shit, but it was supposed to be and I said it was.  "One level higher" (I said) than Chibnall's best straining efforts to be hilarious would still be deeply shit.