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Extinction Rebellion London protests begin

Started by Fambo Number Mive, August 23, 2021, 04:18:29 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Inspector Norse

Quote from: Dusty Substance on August 25, 2021, 12:23:00 AM
It's not when they appear to be doing all they can to be as unpopular as possible.

The world's on fire and they think dressing up like Steve Strange in the Ashes To Ashes video is going to make any difference.

To be fair one bloke quoted in the Guardian article is called Tristran Strange, borrowing his dad's clothes saves on waste.

Fambo Number Mive

QuoteGlobal warming increased the likelihood and intensity of the floods that ravaged Germany and Belgium in July, claiming more than 200 lives and causing billions of euros worth of damage, according to a study by leading world scientists released on Tuesday.

The chances of such an extreme event happening in these regions has been made up to nine times more likely by warming due to human activity, the report says.

Climate change has also increased the maximum amount of rainfall in one day by between three and 19 percent, according to scientists from the World Weather Attribution (WWA), which brings together experts from various research institutes around the world.

https://www.euronews.com/green/2021/08/24/europe-s-july-floods-made-up-to-nine-times-more-likely-by-global-warming-study-says

Terrifying.

Paul Calf

If only we'd said "Climate change will make it rain all the fucking time, even in Spain, Portugal and the South of France," we might have got earlier action on it.

GoblinAhFuckScary


madhair60


Pinball

Quote from: chveik on August 24, 2021, 08:14:58 PM
very witty
It's a reasonable question frankly. Since 1990, Chinese carbon output has quadrupled, whilst UK has decreased. Also there's the small point of magnitude in absolute terms, 200 new coal power stations a year etc. The aggressive elephant in the room is left alone, I guess, which makes what XR are doing in the UK little more than a gesture.

Fambo Number Mive

It's very unlikely that protesters in the UK could do anything to influence the environmental policy of China. It's much more productive to try and protest about UK carbon emissions which it is much easier to influence. Providing support and solidarity to XR protesters in China is probably all they we can do.

Also, it's much easier for our government to persuade the Chinese government to do more on the environment if we can show we're making drastic changes, otherwise the Chinese government will feel like it's just being done as an attack on China.

Shoulders?-Stomach!


chveik


Cuellar

Quote from: Pinball on August 25, 2021, 01:20:29 PM
It's a reasonable question frankly. Since 1990, Chinese carbon output has quadrupled, whilst UK has decreased. Also there's the small point of magnitude in absolute terms, 200 new coal power stations a year etc. The aggressive elephant in the room is left alone, I guess, which makes what XR are doing in the UK little more than a gesture.

Every single XR protester should get on a plane and take the fight to China!

jobotic

Does anyone know if there are any companies that invest or operate in more than one country at once?

If not these protestors should stick to disrupting their local cornershop.

Shoulders?-Stomach!

Quote from: Pinball on August 25, 2021, 01:20:29 PM
It's a reasonable question frankly. Since 1990, Chinese carbon output has quadrupled, whilst UK has decreased. Also there's the small point of magnitude in absolute terms, 200 new coal power stations a year etc. The aggressive elephant in the room is left alone, I guess, which makes what XR are doing in the UK little more than a gesture.

Almost as though their economic development has happened in an entirely different era to the UK.

If you want to not be disingenuous then at least acknowledge the pollution caused by the entire British Empire during the industrial revolution, and the fact that Chinese supremacy inevitably involves economic expansion.

They are the first ever superpower to have reached supremacy while being under pressure to curb emissions and the only one who will ever have actually responded.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_China

Are they doing enough? No, but neither are the UK and it's entirely reasonable for UK citizens to pressure the UK government to get their house in order regardless of what is happening abroad.


Paul Calf

Unfortunately, it's hard to view western consumer efforts at greening society - separating recycling, flying less, buying a hybrid car or using bikes or public transport - as anything other than a very elaborate set of 21st Century religious ceremonies. The biggest polluters in the world by far are still very large corporations. Rather than bullying people into wearing entirely ineffective hair shirts, it might be better to turn public attention to that. This is a thing being done to all of us, not a thing we are doing.

Shaming people into doing things is rarely successful, and in this case it's pretty much immoral as the sacrifices that they'll make are almost entirely pointless.

bgmnts

It's dispiriting to hear that me following my ethical principles and endeavouring to reduce my carbon footprint is pointless and immoral. Obviously one doesn't do all that to feel righteous it's just the right thing to do but being told it's pointless is a drag.

Paul Calf

I don't think that's a reason not to say it though: while we faithfully reproduce these ceremonies, we're being lulled into a dream where We Are Doing Something About It. We aren't, and as long as we live within this runaway system of endless growth, we can't.

chveik

dunno what the fuck you're going on about since XR does target big companies.

we can't do anything about the chinese environmental policies, it's completely useless to talk about it.

bullied lol.

Cuellar


Fambo Number Mive

Buying more items from charity shops as opposed to buying them new would be another good idea. You can get some really good second hand books in charity shops, and often really cheap boxsets.

Paul Calf

Quote from: chveik on August 25, 2021, 02:24:49 PM
dunno what the fuck you're going on about since XR does target big companies.

we can't do anything about the chinese environmental policies, it's completely useless to talk about it.

bullied lol.

I didn't mention China once, you sour, dismal turd.

Paul Calf

Quote from: Cuellar on August 25, 2021, 02:25:24 PM
We could all stop buying loads of tat

Quote from: Fambo Number Mive on August 25, 2021, 02:26:45 PM
Buying more items from charity shops as opposed to buying them new would be another good idea. You can get some really good second hand books in charity shops, and often really cheap boxsets.

I'm not sure how effective these strategies will be against Gazprom and AramCo, but I suppose we could try it.

chveik

Quote from: Paul Calf on August 25, 2021, 02:27:49 PM
I didn't mention China once, you sour, dismal turd.

the two comments were unrelated you thick cunt. discouraging any action really is the best attitude, keep at it

Fambo Number Mive

Re my charity shops comment, I was thinking more about helping the environment generally than specifically how to make businesses change their environmental actions.

Cuellar

Quote from: Paul Calf on August 25, 2021, 02:32:37 PM
I'm not sure how effective these strategies will be against Gazprom and AramCo, but I suppose we could try it.

How do you think tat is made? From air? It's all fossil fuels, gas and oil keeping the factories working, shipping the tat all over the world, creating tonnes and tonnes of consumer goods destined to be chucked straight into landfill without ever being used.

Paul Calf

The trouble with voting with your wallet is that people with the biggest wallets have the most votes.

Quote from: chveik on August 25, 2021, 02:36:53 PM
the two comments were unrelated you thick cunt. discouraging any action really is the best attitude, keep at it

I have absolutely no problem with anyone sifting through their bins to make sure they haven't put a slightly different type of plastic than is allowed in them, but just don't think it's going to make the tiniest bit of difference. You can't fix this by fiddling with the system. The system is the problem.

chveik

Quote from: Paul Calf on August 25, 2021, 02:52:23 PM
I have absolutely no problem with anyone sifting through their bins to make sure they haven't put a slightly different type of plastic than is allowed in them, but just don't think it's going to make the tiniest bit of difference. You can't fix this by fiddling with the system. The system is the problem.

yeah but you are talking about the liberal version of environmentalism, that's not what XR is doing and that's not their definition of 'action'! by nature it's an anticapitalist organization

The Mollusk

Quote from: Paul Calf on August 25, 2021, 02:16:07 PM
I don't think that's a reason not to say it though: while we faithfully reproduce these ceremonies, we're being lulled into a dream where We Are Doing Something About It. We aren't, and as long as we live within this runaway system of endless growth, we can't.

Mm, nah from where I'm standing Doing Something About It looks very much like doing something about it. In fact I think they're exactly the same thing by definition?

Also loads of smaller corporations are taking more initiative now as opposed to, like, a decade ago when there was comparatively very little initiative. So change, however depressingly slow, is happening. And I hasten to add that this change only appears depressingly slow now because everyone is talking about it.

Paul Calf

Quote from: chveik on August 25, 2021, 02:54:09 PM
yeah but you are talking about the liberal version of environmentalism, that's not what XR is doing and that's not their definition of 'action'! by nature it's an anticapitalist organization

Sorry, I think we've been talking at cross-purposes. I don't think XR are guilty of this at all - they're actually trying to jolt people out of this mindset, which is good.

chveik

Quote from: Paul Calf on August 25, 2021, 03:01:08 PM
Sorry, I think we've been talking at cross-purposes. I don't think XR are guilty of this at all - they're actually trying to jolt people out of this mindset, which is good.

ah fair enough. apologies

Fambo Number Mive

Oxford Circus junction now being blocked by XR, the pink table is there.


Fambo Number Mive

BBC News Online doesn't seem to be covering the protests very well, only one story on its London section, and that's about the pink table being dismantled, but I did see this story:

QuoteGatwick Airport is pressing ahead with plans to use its emergency runway for routine flights.

It aims to convert its standby runway by 2029 despite passenger number dropping due to the global pandemic.

A public consultation on the proposals, which were first announced in October 2018, is due to open on 9 September.

Local campaigners called the plans "despicable", after concerns were previously raised over noise, congestion and air quality.

Under the plans, the emergency runway - which is currently used as a taxiway or when the main runway is closed - would be used for departures of smaller planes.

It would enable Gatwick to boost its annual passenger capacity from 62m to 75m by 2038...

Plans to enable more flying when we need to be doing far less of it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-58331705