Extinction Rebellion London protests begin

[Sebastian Cobb]

Sorry, decarbonising existing industries it is then

Are you proposing ending all flight including things like medical emergencies, medicines, perishables etc? If not how would you be the arbiter of what is neccesary?

How do you propose to do the same for the internet? What is 'essential'? How would you even tell given encryption? What good do you think it would do? While electricity does increase with internet use, lots of core infrastructure would still use power waiting for traffic whether it is there or not.

In fact we've done this... streaming, something relatively traffic intensive but a common leisure use-case for average user uses 'modest' amounts  of electricity and a lot of that is dependent on the screen-size of the consuming device:
https://www.iea.org/commentaries/the-carbon-footprint-of-streaming-video-fact-checking-the-headlines
https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-what-is-the-carbon-footprint-of-streaming-video-on-netflix

Not to mention curbing 'the internet' wouldn't really be tackling the root cause, which is where the energy comes from in the first place. Maybe sort that.

[Paul Calf]

3% is a massive amount that can be reduced essentially immediately. No need for any decarbonising talk, just stop it now and it drops off straight away. It's not just the flights now it's the planned expansion in air travel globally. No more foreign holidays sadly, or you can go to the Maldives via horseback and rowing boat if you want.

Same with the Internet, I'm not sure the total % but it was supposed to be roughly there same or higher than air travel. Just make immediate curbs on Internet usage and there's another chunk saved. Again not just what's being done now, globally more and more people are having access which will only drive the emissions up further.

And the bigger obvious ones like restricting car usage and imports etc.

This is precisely why so much of the population is opposed to environmentalism. Every time I see someone doing this, I despair as it puts the movement back. People look at this and then see cunts like Fox banging on about antifa and eco-Nazis and they know who they prefer to listen to.

[Paul Calf]

Tell them: tell them it's not their fault, that they need to stop people from doing this to their world, to their air and rivers and food and wildlife.  Or you can just go around lecturing people about how the only holiday they get in a year of drudge work is going to be taken away from them and they'll go to prison if they disagree.

Let's see how that fucking goes, shall we? Stupid fucking cunts.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

I agree with Paul Calf on this point.

[Butchers Blind]

Just make immediate curbs on Internet usage and there's another chunk saved.

Oh man, we just fought the OnlyFans war and now this.

[Petey Pate]

Unfortunately, it's hard to view western consumer efforts at greening society - separating recycling, flying less, buying a hybrid car or using bikes or public transport - as anything other than a very elaborate set of 21st Century religious ceremonies. The biggest polluters in the world by far are still very large corporations. Rather than bullying people into wearing entirely ineffective hair shirts, it might be better to turn public attention to that. This is a thing being done to all of us, not a thing we are doing.

Shaming people into doing things is rarely successful, and in this case it's pretty much immoral as the sacrifices that they'll make are almost entirely pointless.

Don't disagree with you but I do often see people using this reasoning as a get-out clause for not making any effort, when in reality, we are all going to have to make changes to our lifestyle even if polluting corporations suddenly decided to end all fossil fuel usage.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Tell them: tell them it's not their fault, that they need to stop people from doing this to their world, to their air and rivers and food and wildlife.  Or you can just go around lecturing people about how the only holiday they get in a year of drudge work is going to be taken away from them and they'll go to prison if they disagree.

Let's see how that fucking goes, shall we? Stupid fucking cunts.

Perhaps they're on to something...

1) Ban anything remotely enjoyable, but keep work as something still fundamentally neccessary to survive.
2) Give out free helium and bags with drawstrings

Things should work themselves out.

[Huxleys Babkins]

If we stop people using their cars, they won't be able to get to the shitty jobs that they need to take a holiday from. Plus they'll have no money so they won't be able to afford the flights in the first place. Or any other stuff for that matter. Massive carbon footprint reduction from destitution. Lovely old job.

[Paul Calf]

I mean, work will still have to be done and not all of it will be fulfilling or enjoyable. Taking away peoples' sense of agency and reward for that doesn't seem to be a winning strategy.

[Dex Sawash]

Just got notice that delivery of my Giant Pink Table will take longer than expected due to enviro-twats protesting at the air freight hub.

[Paul Calf]

Don't disagree with you but I do often see people using this reasoning as a get-out clause for not making any effort, when in reality, we are all going to have to make changes to our lifestyle even if polluting corporations suddenly decided to end all fossil fuel usage.

Well, especially if they do that because it'll affect the things we can do.

I dont think there's a demand-side solution to this though.

[jamiefairlie]

Change will only happen once circumstances become more painful to tolerate than the changes needed to negate them. That's how our entire system works e.g. wait until we're sick and then throw drugs at it rather than make lifestyle changes proactively. Human beings are conservative and very slow to change and trying to hector them into changing only entrenches that conservatism.

[PlanktonSideburns]

It's a reasonable question frankly. Since 1990, Chinese carbon output has quadrupled, whilst UK has decreased. Also there's the small point of magnitude in absolute terms, 200 new coal power stations a year etc. The aggressive elephant in the room is left alone, I guess, which makes what XR are doing in the UK little more than a gesture.

Outsource all of the making of shit to other countries after years of pumping shit into the air and water

Destroy own country for a laugh, alienating everyone on the way

Blame China for having lots of pollution

[Buelligan]

I apologise, I haven't read all of the thread[nb]Have been rather occupied with irl shite[/nb], so if it's covered here, absolute apologies.  I think a lot of people expect obvious straight line motives and behaviour here from XR (and, IMO, they're mistaken to do that).  What I mean is - trotting out China... therefore protest China... and so on, is rather simplistic, not wishing to offend.

I think XR are doing something about our culture in a far more sophisticated subtle way.  We know we cannot rely on corporations or politicians (who are venal) to save us.  We need to save ourselves and to do that, we need to change the ideas that we base acceptable choice on in human (Western) culture.  Changing the behaviour of people with decent jobs and money, those whose buying power is larger, those our politicians want and need to oblige.  We need to change that culture.  We need social influencers and pretty people convincing the majority that poisoning our planet is not a good way forward. 

Rioting will not achieve that.  FFS the Capitalist Machine loves a nice big war, so many business opportunities - even a massive fuck-off riot won't produce that level of devastation and it will allow the media and political/business establishment to paint environmentalists as criminals.  To round up and lock up.  A riot will only really work, as a long term step forward, if you can get the majority to riot.  If you can do that, you might as well change the world without destroying your street furniture.

This XR stuff is about making the avocado-toasting bag-for-life gwyneth-vagina-candlers stop buying stupid shit and driving to the gym and all the other stuff, it's about making them think and vote but far more importantly, it's about making it ugly and othered to consume and rape our world.  And you know how culture works, how it spreads, without even needing to fly to Beijing.

That's what I reckon anyway.

[Kankurette]

This is precisely why so much of the population is opposed to environmentalism. Every time I see someone doing this, I despair as it puts the movement back. People look at this and then see cunts like Fox banging on about antifa and eco-Nazis and they know who they prefer to listen to.

It has to start from the top down.

[Fambo Number Mive]

XR protesting on London Bridge today. They used a bus to block off part of the bridge and the police drew their batons/asps* as they removed XR protestors from the bus which seems unreasonable force. From the footage it looks like two officers were hitting another officer's legs with their batons, but that can't be right.

https://twitter.com/damiengayle/status/1432684587826753536 (video of the police removing XR protestors from the bus)

*which type do they use now? is it asps? or does it vary by force?

I only realised this when I had a look at Twitter, BBC News seems to be ignoring the protests.

[Blumf]

From the footage it looks like two officers were hitting another officer's legs with their batons, but that can't be right

Looks like they're swiping at a protestors fingers as they're trying to block the policeman from climbing onto the bus.

[Shit Good Nose]

*which type do they use now? is it asps?

Bow Street Bastards.

[Dex Sawash]

My Giant Pink Table showed up and is only 22" high. How is that going to save the fucking planet?

[Butchers Blind]

XR protesting on London Bridge today.

[Buelligan]

XR protesting on London Bridge today. They used a bus to block off part of the bridge and the police drew their batons/asps* as they removed XR protestors from the bus which seems unreasonable force. From the footage it looks like two officers were hitting another officer's legs with their batons, but that can't be right.

https://twitter.com/damiengayle/status/1432684587826753536 (video of the police removing XR protestors from the bus)

*which type do they use now? is it asps? or does it vary by force?

I only realised this when I had a look at Twitter, BBC News seems to be ignoring the protests.

Wow, reading that thread's made me feel immeasurably better about the heat-death of the planet.  Almost feeling win-win now.  Recommend it.