Author Topic: Centrism  (Read 6605 times)

Re: Centrism
« Reply #270 on: September 07, 2021, 12:35:32 AM »
edit fuck

should've made this my username

Re: Centrism
« Reply #271 on: September 07, 2021, 12:37:15 AM »
This is a pretty good representation of how Centrists see themselves as stationary objects in this world, and how people who want change offend them (also for every 1,000,000 4chan posts there's one good one)


Quoting this because I didn't want to roll it over with my last dumb post. Sorry!

TrenterPercenter

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Re: Centrism
« Reply #272 on: September 07, 2021, 10:00:14 AM »
It's been posted before and it's good; I said something similar in this thread earlier; however it is just a long way of saying "hand wringing liberals" with added Harry Potter.

To understand why liberals are hand wringing, why working class people are siding with a millionaire conman racists, why "left-wingers" are rejecting marxism for moral gesturing, why sizeable numbers of the public consistently vote against their own interests etc... you need to understand their psychology at both the individual and group level; philosophy cannot do this; it isn't equipped to do so, I love it, it's incredibly important in it's main goal "progression of thought" but it is limited in both real world application and even proving its assumptions.  It doesn't concern itself with the biology of the brain and the frankly outstanding amount of specialist work that have been carried out in the last 40 years in the area of child development, brain development communications theory, emotional regulation.

I've just got to get up a mountain but I'll explain how this contributes to "liberals" with practical examples when I get chance.

Re: Centrism
« Reply #273 on: September 09, 2021, 08:04:20 PM »
Are any of you on r/stupidpol, just out of interest? I got recommended it. It's a bit anti-trans for me though.

chveik

  • crazy bit of business
Re: Centrism
« Reply #274 on: September 09, 2021, 08:07:06 PM »
never heard of the cunts. can't stand reddit's layout anyway

Re: Centrism
« Reply #275 on: September 09, 2021, 08:53:16 PM »
It is an arsehole to navigate. I always use the old one.

Sebastian Cobb

  • bad opinion haver
Re: Centrism
« Reply #276 on: September 09, 2021, 08:59:32 PM »
you can't even read threads properly with the new one unless you sign up/in.

then if you do, often you wish you hadn't bothered.

I don't go on much these days but like /r/enlightenedcentrism as a political pisstake, and /r/darkfuturology, /r/collapse when feeling bleak

Re: Centrism
« Reply #277 on: September 09, 2021, 09:03:15 PM »
If an asteroid smashed into the earth, r/stupidpol wouldn't even notice until either a 17 year old queer kid made a bad meme about or M&Ms referenced it in a cringy pride ad

Re: Centrism
« Reply #278 on: September 10, 2021, 12:50:17 AM »
I got linked to it as an example of leftists pushing back against wokeness and idpol. Trenter, they seem to be the kind of leftists others have talked about - they’re pretty down on LGBT people.

Re: Centrism
« Reply #279 on: September 10, 2021, 12:55:34 AM »
they seem to be the kind of leftists others have talked about - they’re pretty down on LGBT people.

Not leftists then

Re: Centrism
« Reply #280 on: September 10, 2021, 12:56:28 AM »
Apparently having Pride in Jamaica is cultural hegemony or something.

chveik

  • crazy bit of business
Re: Centrism
« Reply #281 on: September 10, 2021, 12:57:11 AM »
Apparently having Pride in Jamaica is cultural hegemony or something.

they sound like wankers

Re: Centrism
« Reply #282 on: September 10, 2021, 12:58:36 AM »
The Jamaicans?

Not sticking up for Stupidpol but American liberals should be less head up arse about how their ideas are perceived worldwide.

chveik

  • crazy bit of business
Re: Centrism
« Reply #283 on: September 10, 2021, 01:09:56 AM »
The Jamaicans?

Not sticking up for Stupidpol but American liberals should be less head up arse about how their ideas are perceived worldwide.

nah the stupidpol lads. isn't pride a worldwide thing? i mean it doesn't really strike me as the wrong type of cultural imperialism

imitationleather

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Re: Centrism
« Reply #284 on: September 10, 2021, 01:14:53 AM »
It's not the Greeks, it's the Jamaicans chveik's after!

Re: Centrism
« Reply #285 on: September 10, 2021, 01:18:38 AM »
isn't pride a worldwide thing?

No. Sometimes its well funded and Anglophone and perceived to efface any local equivalents. Especially in places were acting like Stonewall was the begininng of the gay liberation movement is ahistorical absurdity. No idea if the Jamaican protest was about this or a populist movement, but I suppose populist is sadly more likely.

Either way it does little to change the impression of an enlightened empire trying lead backwards corners of the globe into its objectively true beliefs while exposing cultural relativism about every other set of values. If they were serious about promoting equality rather than some weird soft power thing they wouldn't act like this.

Re: Centrism
« Reply #286 on: September 10, 2021, 01:24:30 AM »
No. Sometimes its well funded and Anglophone and perceived to efface any local equivalents. Especially in places were acting like Stonewall was the begininng of the gay liberation movement is ahistorical absurdity. No idea if the Jamaican protest was about this or a populist movement, but I suppose populist is sadly more likely.

Either way it does little to change the impression of an enlightened empire trying lead backwards corners of the globe into its objectively true beliefs while exposing cultural relativism about every other set of values.

Begging the question with your 'impression' there.

canadagoose

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Re: Centrism
« Reply #287 on: September 10, 2021, 01:25:41 AM »
Are any of you on r/stupidpol, just out of interest? I got recommended it. It's a bit anti-trans for me though.
It's a load of shite. The sort of "leftists" that I don't like tend to go there.

chveik

  • crazy bit of business
Re: Centrism
« Reply #288 on: September 10, 2021, 01:30:23 AM »
No. Sometimes its well funded and Anglophone and perceived to efface any local equivalents. Especially in places were acting like Stonewall was the begininng of the gay liberation movement is ahistorical absurdity. No idea if the Jamaican protest was about this or a populist movement, but I suppose populist is sadly more likely.

Either way it does little to change the impression of an enlightened empire trying lead backwards corners of the globe into its objectively true beliefs while exposing cultural relativism about every other set of values. If they were serious about promoting equality rather than some weird soft power thing they wouldn't act like this.

well i have no idea where that jamaican pride originated from so i can't really have an opinion on that. i do hate american liberals quite a lot obviously but i've seen more than enough time anti-idpol people making shit up

Re: Centrism
« Reply #289 on: September 10, 2021, 01:32:28 AM »
Begging the question with your 'impression' there.

I mean, monocultural and heavy handed pinkwashing does hold a lot of the blame for populist candidates in a lot of countries because it gives them a windmill to tilt at while presenting old bigotries as something new and scary. Its easier to whip up rage about globalists than local groups. The EU is probably equally as bad but its American brands that get all the visibility/demonisation. 

Re: Centrism
« Reply #290 on: September 10, 2021, 01:35:32 AM »
well i have no idea where that jamaican pride originated from so i can't really have an opinion on that. i do hate american liberals quite a lot obviously but i've seen more than enough time anti-idpol people making shit up

I'm not an expert on the subject, but Jamaica has had notoriously bad anti-LGBT laws that used the same language and framing as colonisers used until fairly recently. They never had pride, they had their own gay liberations organisation which was a more militant thing than western orgs which is to be expected considering. I don't think they had anglo-style pride before the last few years.

Re: Centrism
« Reply #291 on: September 10, 2021, 03:45:29 AM »
It does fuck me off a bit how so many young American queers act like Stonewall was the be-all and end-all of LGBT history and that no LGBT communities existed beforehand. And ‘you have black trans sex workers to thank for Pride’ referring to Marsha P Johnson and Sylvia Rivera, one of whom may not have even been at the riot, and acting like they singlehandedly invented it. I get not wanting to exclude trans people or black LGBT people but you end up going the other way and acting like gay men or lesbians had nothing to do with it. Stormé Delarverie is often forgotten.

TrenterPercenter

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Re: Centrism
« Reply #292 on: September 11, 2021, 10:03:53 AM »
I got linked to it as an example of leftists pushing back against wokeness and idpol. Trenter, they seem to be the kind of leftists others have talked about - they’re pretty down on LGBT people.

Interesting. I don't really go on reddit so I'm not aware.  I've mentioned it before but I think the semi anonymous nature of the internet has caused a big problem as to how political groups can be perceived.

Astroturfing assumes organised agit-prop but you don't really need this as anyone with an interest in creating an impression of any political group.  Then of course there is the problem with people making poor representations of the left just by not being very good leftists.

We've even had people on CaB pretending to be things there are not just to get reactions.

Ps will check it out when I get back thanks for the heads up Kanks

TrenterPercenter

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Re: Centrism
« Reply #293 on: September 12, 2021, 07:25:44 PM »
Had a little look through stupidpol scrolled through he first 20-30 posts and and I have to be honest I didn't see anything that questionable.  I understand what is now though; a reddit that is critical of identity politics, not Marxist specifically.  As with all these things you'll get people being all or nothing but I was expecting to see much worse; it was all just standard critiques of typical identity politics issues with people at least seeming to discuss some of the issues.

Probably the iffiest for me was the something about people fighting the abortion ruling in Texas not using female pronouns which didn't really seem worth highlighting. I suppose there are some aspects here if not addressing cis women directly could reduce the reach and run the risk conflating the "trans-debate" with this particular issue (meh it seemed a bit unnecessary imo); I didn't really get the impression it was a massively toxic community from what I saw (though of course it is on reddit so it ultimately will be somewhere as you go down each thread.

Oh and using the picture of Rachel Dolezal in the header that can get fucked right off.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2021, 07:37:28 PM by TrenterPercenter »

Re: Centrism
« Reply #294 on: September 12, 2021, 08:47:16 PM »
Yeah, I did see the 'Rachel Dolezal is just like trans people' argument in there, it's one of the essays linked in the sidebar. Which explains the header. It's a common talking point on Mumsnet as well. I wish I had the words to explain why it isn't the same.

Re: Centrism
« Reply #295 on: September 12, 2021, 09:05:22 PM »
Not leftists then

"Post left", yer Glenn Greenwalds of this world. Types who gradually succumbed to internet brain worms post-2016, and unwittingly meshed with the IDW crowd. Closer to home you have the likes of Stuart Campbell, and the formation of the Alba party.

TrenterPercenter

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Re: Centrism
« Reply #296 on: September 12, 2021, 09:23:17 PM »
Yeah, I did see the 'Rachel Dolezal is just like trans people' argument in there, it's one of the essays linked in the sidebar. Which explains the header. It's a common talking point on Mumsnet as well. I wish I had the words to explain why it isn't the same.

Ah I didn't clock that (I don't really get Reddit all it's banners and stuff); I take it the argument is Dolezal self-identification is the same as some one identifying with a gender that is different from their sex at birth? If it is then that is not only a stupid but also a reductionist argument in itself.

TrenterPercenter

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Re: Centrism
« Reply #297 on: September 12, 2021, 09:27:57 PM »
Yeah, I did see the 'Rachel Dolezal is just like trans people' argument in there, it's one of the essays linked in the sidebar. Which explains the header. It's a common talking point on Mumsnet as well. I wish I had the words to explain why it isn't the same.

Which one is it?

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