Does Morrissey's Racism Tarnish The Smiths' Legacy?

[Satchmo Distel]

A poster on the 12" singles thread stated that Morrissey turning out to be a cunt put off the poster from nominating any Smiths singles. I was wondering if any other posters find it harder to enjoy that catalogue in light of the vocalist being a BNP-lite piece of shit? Are the songs so closely tied to Morrissey's own character that when that character betrays you, the songs have to go?

[Chicory]

Nothing's changed, I still love them.  Only slightly etc.

[daf]

Now I know how Joan of Arc felt when the Pope did a big shit through her letterbox

[Neomod]

I still love the Smiths and what they meant to me as a youth.

Morrissey can slip on some ice though.

[Steven88]

Nah there's too many bellends in music to avoid them all. Tom Araya being a trumper is depressing though.

[Kankurette]

No, because Johnny Marr exists.

[Custard]

Nah, separate the artist from the art, an all that. Plus he was only a part of what made them so great

[DrGreggles]

I've met 75% of The Smiths and they're delightful.
Not going to avoid their music because of the other 25%.

Morrissey's racism tarnishes Morrissey.

[shiftwork2]

No, still the biggest thing to happen to me during my formative music years.  The music stands up incredibly well after all this time.

[The Mollusk]

"Love The Smiths, hate Morrissey" has been a phrase banded about for a while now and one with which I (and everyone here it seems) can concur with. It has a lot to do with how much of a prick the artist was at the time the great art was made doesn't it? Or at least weighing up the factors of SCALE OF ATROCITY and LENGTH OF TIME BETWEEN ART AND ATROCITY.

[phantom_power]

It is always harder when the main singer/lyric writer is the one being a prick, and this is exacerbated by they lyrics being so tied in with his, and the audience's, personality. Even given that though I can still enjoy Smiths songs, and even Morrissey solo stuff, but I sometimes don't really want to hear them immediately after one of his "episodes"

[The Mollusk]

I was listening to In the Nightside Eclipse by Emperor the other week and I did have to stop and ponder if I was comfortable enjoying the drumming of a man who, two years prior to the album's completion and release, stabbed someone 37 times to death for allegedly soliciting him for gay sex.

I mean the drumming in old school black metal is an integral part of the sound but it's hardly standout work, it's very basic and a lot easier to hear as part of the furniture. I dunno, just typing as I think here.

[Huxleys Babkins]

No, because Johnny Marr exists.

Precisely. Since he learned to sing there's literally no point to Morrissey any more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uotTQdF5evk

[SweetPomPom]

Precisely. Since he learned to sing there's literally no point to Morrissey any more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uotTQdF5evk

Yep, even if his vocals on his own stuff are nothing to write home about something happens when he plays the Smiths tunes - he channels those songs in a way that Morrissey just isn't capable of

[holyzombiejesus]

I made the comment that the OP refers to. I was so obsessed with The Smiths when I was younger and the main reason for that was Morrissey. When I hear them now, I can only think that the man who sings those words is such an unedifying colossal cunt - a man who used the deaths of children in the Manchester Arena bombing to make some snide racist point - that I just have to switch them off. I won't be selling my records by them as they're undeniably a huge part of my life. It's a bit easier as I never really played the records in recent years but I'd probably skip if they come on shuffle. If it was someone like David Berman I might not be so ready to never listen to them again.

[Vitamin C]

It has a lot to do with how much of a prick the artist was at the time the great art was made doesn't it?

Yeah, but "Panic" might be a problem here. Was that the first example of Morrissey being accused of racism?

[Brundle-Fly]

Yeah, but "Panic" might be a problem here. Was that the first example of Morrissey being accursed of racism?

I was thinking about this the other day. I take the final verse as just a rejection of townie nightclubs in general, and that mentality that went with it; not as some UK mission statement equivalent of the 'Disco Sucks' campaign or being openly racist. I couldn't bear nightclubs around the same time, thought they were full of wankers and the music was awful.   I like to think I quickly grew out of this conservatism and snootiness though, Morrissey never did.

[Neomod]

As I recall, at the time this was considered them railing against daytime radio 1, not black music.

[Vitamin C]

Wikipedia has some examples of it bring questioned as racist at the time.

[Custard]

Not sure Samantha Fox would care if Moz wasn't there

https://dangerousminds.net/content/uploads/images/made/content/uploads/images/samfoxreviewthefallthesmiths1986smashhitsaldkjfasld_465_689_int.jpg

[Pauline Walnuts]

More witless dead white male bashing, I'm starting bore myself to be honest.

[jobotic]

Not sure Samantha Fox would care if Moz wasn't there

https://dangerousminds.net/content/uploads/images/made/content/uploads/images/samfoxreviewthefallthesmiths1986smashhitsaldkjfasld_465_689_int.jpg

Sam Fox can mock but Hurt Me, Hurt Me (But The Pants Stay On) could easily be a Morrissey song title.

[El Unicornio, mang]

Not sure Samantha Fox would care if Moz wasn't there

https://dangerousminds.net/content/uploads/images/made/content/uploads/images/samfoxreviewthefallthesmiths1986smashhitsaldkjfasld_465_689_int.jpg

Two bands with singers I've kind of had to separate from the music. Although I've never been able to take Moz seriously, he just reminds me of the old drunk bloke you get in a pub spouting gibberish that everyone does their best to ignore. Obviously he has a large fanbase/platform but I think there's a lot of selective deafness with his fans (for his music too, tbf).

[Johnny Yesno]

I was thinking about this the other day. I take the final verse as just a rejection of townie nightclubs in general, and that mentality that went with it; not as some UK mission statement equivalent of the 'Disco Sucks' campaign or being openly racist. I couldn't bear nightclubs around the same time, thought they were full of wankers and the music was awful.   I like to think I quickly grew out of this conservatism and snootiness though, Morrissey never did.

I was a young man at the time and I totally bought into what I saw as his hyperbole against commercialism. As I perceived it, the 'disco' didn't refer to Disco the genre but the inescapable cack that you'd get in night clubs, pubs and wedding parties alike. That stuff really did say nothing to me about my life and the Smiths did.

As time went on and clubs booted out alternative music nights and replaced them with wall-to-wall rave nights, and live guitar music seemed to be dying, my view of 'the disco' only hardened. It was only when the same fate subsequently happened to rave and the internet expanded the ability to avoid the music you hate and discover a much broader expanse of music to love that I started to take a more relaxed view of what turned out to be the cycle of life in the music industry.

As you say, perhaps Morrissey's racism was an impediment to him coming to the same realisation.

[The Mollusk]

I think it's a real extreme stretch to infer that verse in "Panic" is racist in any way. Finding it weird that it's been construed as that at all to be honest.

[Smeraldina Rima]

I understood more about how people interpret the song from reading the interviews from the time. This interview in Melody Maker is from two months after the single was released. It includes comments that echo 'the music they constantly play says nothing to me about my life': 'In essence this music doesn't say anything whatsoever.'; 'Isn't it curious that practically none of these records reflect life as we live it? Isn't it curious that 93 and a half percent of these records relect life as it isn't lived? That foxes me!'

See the part subtitled 'Black Pop Conspiracy' from the bottom of the first page:


https://illnessasart.com/2020/03/03/melody-maker-27-september-1986/

These were letters of response at the time:

https://illnessasart.com/2020/03/08/melody-maker-11-october-1986/

Johnny Marr was asked about it in an interview with NME early in 1987. He tells a story about the origin of the song - the radio cutting from a Chernobyl disaster report to "I'm Your Man" by Wham! - which puts the line mentioned before in different light, but perhaps self-consciously: 'I remember actually saying, 'what the fuck has this got to do with people's lives''. He also seems to admit that he thought of the references to 'disco' in a genre context in the way that he defends the band against the accusations of racism here:



https://johnnymarrvellous.com/marrchives/nme14feb87-page01-2.jpg

[McChesney Duntz]

God, just skimming that article above reminds me that he was always kind of a wretched human being with the worst possible opinions, even in his pomp. Don't like Stevie Wonder, do you, Steven (for starters)? Fuck the fuck right the fuck off, you fuck.

[Video Game Fan 2000]

"I would like to eventually turn into Germaine Greer"

monkey paw finger curls

[chveik]

thanks smeraldina. what a fucking jerk that morrissey lad was/is

[itsfredtitmus]

If anything it tends to make me respe-