20 years since them slags smashed into the twin towers...

Started by Butchers Blind, September 10, 2021, 12:32:14 AM

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MikeP

Quote from: mothman on September 15, 2021, 12:05:46 AM
It was never about the deaths.

What is it about then?
You could say that erecting such tall buildings and then invading a rather warlike set of nations was rather ill advised.

touchingcloth

Quote from: mothman on September 15, 2021, 12:05:46 AM
It was never about the deaths. The same MURICA types bleating about the anniversary over the weekend couldn't give a damn that the same number of people are dying every day from COVID.

Not to mention the civilian casualties of the invasion and bombings in Afghanistan, but the deaths are spread out in dribs and drabs then and not televised live. It's a righteous war on terror rather than a terror attack on freedom. Plus those people are brown.


checkoutgirl

Quote from: MikeP on September 15, 2021, 12:29:37 AM
You could say that erecting such tall buildings and then invading a rather warlike set of nations was rather ill advised.

Amazing. This is too good.

Butchers Blind

Does anyone else watch the footage of the planes crashing into the 9/11 towers just for the sheer exhilaration of watching jumbo jets smashing into skyscrapers?

pigamus

Quote from: idunnosomename on September 15, 2021, 12:28:20 AM
I do wonder why they hit it with early morning flights. if it'd been hit in the afternoon they'd have killed x10 as many. in the N tower it was mostly people who worked in the Windows on the World restaurant who'd gone up via the express elevator and were trapped, and of course a lot of workers didn't go up into the S tower after the other was was hit (even if it wasn't properly evacuated). if you wanted to make a statement you could've hit it them in the night when you'd still kill hundreds of people, but nowhere near as many. and if you hit it in the afternoon you could have a lie in and a nice breakfast and do an absolute massacre.

"They could have been a bit more effective on 9/11" is certainly an interesting take

ProvanFan

Still think it's mental we missed it all up here because every channel was showing the Gaelic dub of The Family-Ness.

MikeP

Quote from: touchingcloth on September 15, 2021, 12:36:46 AM
It's a righteous war on terror rather than a terror attack on freedom. Plus those people are brown.

Which way round are you looking at the situation? It can be argued correctly that the US invasion of Afghanistan was a terror attack on freedom whilst the Afghans then mounted their righteous war on terror as a retaliation. It actually works both ways depending on your perspective.

As for freedom, prior to the US invasion of Afghanistan I wandered around there and Iraq, and several other such places without let or hindrance. And found the inhabitants largely very friendly indeed. Sadly a bit different now. On the other hand, I've found getting into the USA without documents almost impossible. Even before 9/11 (or 11/9).

I suspect that if the US and UK had kept out of the politics of the Middle East and just settled for paying for their oil, the twin towers would still be standing.

I'm actually not firmly on either side of the fence, I ama fervent supporter of balance.

Dex Sawash

Quote from: MikeP on September 15, 2021, 02:02:45 AM

I suspect that if the US and UK had kept out of the politics of the Middle East and just settled for paying for their oil, the twin towers would still be standing.
.

Why did nobody make this threat before now?

chveik

Quote from: pigamus on September 15, 2021, 01:16:23 AM
"They could have been a bit more effective on 9/11" is certainly an interesting take

it always surprises me that terrorists have never targeted a nuclear power plant or some kind of key infrastructure. they're just keen on the massacre of civilians going about their day.

terroristes, encore un effort etc.

H-O-W-L

Quote from: chveik on September 15, 2021, 02:15:42 AM
it always surprises me that terrorists have never targeted a nuclear power plant or some kind of key infrastructure. they're just keen on the massacre of civilians going about their day.

terroristes, encore un effort etc.

It's likely cos nuclear plants are actually comically well-designed in the case of an attack or plane crash or the like, and usually have armed guards (I know in the UK there's a special branch of both the armed forces and the armed police for defending nuclear power plants and nuclear weapons infrastructure) as well as pretty tight security in the Western world.

There was that Greenpeace ad where a plane crashes into a nuclear plant and ends the world but in a realistic scenario a bunch of people having their lunch in the canteen would hear a faint boom and someone outside would be like "FUCKIN 'ELL MY CAR!".

Mr Farenheit

Quote from: idunnosomename on September 15, 2021, 12:28:20 AM
I do wonder why they hit it with early morning flights. if it'd been hit in the afternoon they'd have killed x10 as many. in the N tower it was mostly people who worked in the Windows on the World restaurant who'd gone up via the express elevator and were trapped, and of course a lot of workers didn't go up into the S tower after the other was was hit (even if it wasn't properly evacuated). if you wanted to make a statement you could've hit it them in the night when you'd still kill hundreds of people, but nowhere near as many. and if you hit it in the afternoon you could have a lie in and a nice breakfast and do an absolute massacre.

Morning flights are probably the least likely to be delayed?

MikeP

Quote from: Dex Sawash on September 15, 2021, 02:09:39 AM
Why did nobody make this threat before now?

They probably figured it was so obvious as to not require making out loud. But they didn't take into account the fact that america, in terms of government, is not very bright.

I suppose the term bright government is an oxymoron no matter which administrative body globally that you care to examine.

Zetetic

Quote from: chveik on September 15, 2021, 02:15:42 AM
it always surprises me that terrorists have never targeted a nuclear power plant or some kind of key infrastructure. they're just keen on the massacre of civilians going about their day.
I guess the question behind this is what bin Laden and Atta and so on wanted the outcome of striking targets within the United States to be. I note that they did target the Pentagon.

Looking at idunnosomename's post - I don't think that they were that bothered about deaths either way, and the timing was mostly led by what was easiest to plan around.

El Unicornio, mang

Quote from: MikeP on September 15, 2021, 12:01:42 AM
While it was a major incident, partly because it received extensive coverage, it was not that horrific in the greater scheme of things. Less than 3000 people died. OK, they all did it in one place and time, and few of us were unmoved by it all, but in the USA in 2019 36,000 people died in motor vehicle accidents. And that was not so different from any other year. They were human lives like any other, and most of them were innocent victims with wives and chidren - many of them were children. So if you want wailing and gnashing of teeth have a go at the people who make and sell motor cars.
Just saying.

It's more about the shock of so many people dying horribly and in such a bizarre way while going about their everyday lives, and the general devastation of the city and 20 years of knock on effect that followed. Only 96 people died at Hillsborough. During World War II, 30,000 people were dying every single day on average. In comparison all the wars and refugee crises since have been very tame. 9/11 had a devastatingly profound affect on people, the numbers are irrelevant to that. Any tragedy can be diminished if you compare it to other stuff.

buttgammon

Bin Laden was actually surprised by the extent of the damage and the number of people killed. They were obviously aiming for death and destruction on a huge scale but even using early morning flights and striking the buildings before they would've been at maximum occupancy, they still exceeded their expectations.

Replies From View

Quote from: MikeP on September 15, 2021, 12:01:42 AM
They were human lives like any other

Wake me up when someone a bit unique dies please

buzby

Quote from: chveik on September 15, 2021, 02:15:42 AM
it always surprises me that terrorists have never targeted a nuclear power plant or some kind of key infrastructure. they're just keen on the massacre of civilians going about their day.

terroristes, encore un effort etc.
Crashing a plane into the containment vessel of a nuclear reactor would be pretty pointless. In 1988 a Japanese engineering company involved in their nuclear programme contracted the Sandia National Laboratory in the US to conduct a test that launched an F4 Phantom fighter attached to a rocket sled travelling at 500mph into a 3.7m thick 470-ton block of reinforced concrete that was a simulation of the outer containment vessel wall of a reactor. The Phantom was vapourised in the impact with barely any damage to the concrete (a 60mm deep crater on the surface)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ8uvQk1H9I

robhug

Quote from: idunnosomename on September 15, 2021, 12:28:20 AM
I do wonder why they hit it with early morning flights. if it'd been hit in the afternoon they'd have killed x10 as many. in the N tower it was mostly people who worked in the Windows on the World restaurant who'd gone up via the express elevator and were trapped, and of course a lot of workers didn't go up into the S tower after the other was was hit (even if it wasn't properly evacuated). if you wanted to make a statement you could've hit it them in the night when you'd still kill hundreds of people, but nowhere near as many. and if you hit it in the afternoon you could have a lie in and a nice breakfast and do an absolute massacre.

This only goes to show that no matter how rum a chap you are, theres a little bit of good in everyone


Replies From View

Quote from: buzby on September 15, 2021, 09:40:26 AM
Crashing a plane into the containment vessel of a nuclear reactor would be pretty pointless.

Funny though

JamesTC

Imagine the devastation if they flew the planes into Rhyl Sun Centre instead.

idunnosomename

Yeah it's because they don't really care about death toll one way or another and first flights of the day were the easiest to pull off together. They wanted the symbolism above all and bloody hell they certainly got it.

It has been argued as the biggest piece of performance art in history. Which sounds wanky and offensive and maybe it is, but also it's got a point.

touchingcloth

Who's to say that Alton Towers roller coaster crash or that toddler who got blown away on a bouncy castle weren't the results of Islamic terrorists?

JaDanketies

Quote from: idunnosomename on September 15, 2021, 12:37:11 PM
It has been argued as the biggest piece of performance art in history. Which sounds wanky and offensive and maybe it is, but also it's got a point.

Why is 9/11 art and Hiroshima not?

jobotic



MikeP

Quote from: El Unicornio, mang on September 15, 2021, 08:06:20 AM
Any tragedy can be diminished if you compare it to other stuff.

Just so.

idunnosomename

Quote from: JaDanketies on September 15, 2021, 12:48:19 PM
Why is 9/11 art and Hiroshima not?
who said all war isnt art. ahhhhhhh.

Butvactually you're right, the nuclear attacks on Japan were about spectacle directed at the Soviets not any actual tactics.

checkoutgirl

Quote from: buttgammon on September 15, 2021, 08:52:51 AM
Bin Laden was actually surprised by the extent of the damage and the number of people killed. They were obviously aiming for death and destruction on a huge scale but even using early morning flights and striking the buildings before they would've been at maximum occupancy, they still exceeded their expectations.

They probably would have been happy with one tower, with the other tower as a back up. The pentagon being the second back up.

MojoJojo

Quote from: buzby on September 15, 2021, 09:40:26 AM
Crashing a plane into the containment vessel of a nuclear reactor would be pretty pointless.

Yeah but there is plenty of shit to fuck up and cause a disaster. Just need to fuck up the cooling like Fukushima, except there is also a chance to screw the control systems and prevent the reactor from shutting down.

What's genuinely surprising is that no terrorists have tried to copy the Boston sniper. Two guys - and you probably only need one - with a shit car and a cheap rifle - caused terror for 3 weeks. It may not have a big body count by terrorism standards, but it did generate terror.