Norm MacDonald has died

[studpuppet]

Good grief. Consider my hat to be well and truly fucked.

"You're tickling my turnips, in't ya?" as Tess would say.

[Dusty Substance]

You probably know that Pamela Stephenson (I know she's not British) was a cast member too, 10 years before that. She lasted one season (17 episodes).

That rings a vague bell. TBH, my SNL knowledge isn't all that. It wasn't available in the UK when I was growing up (we only had the four channels) and even though they're all available in one form or another now it mostly seems misses more than hits. I've repeatedly binge watched all the Norm clips over the last few years. Only discovered Chris Farley's "In a van, down by the river" sketch last year.

[Cold Meat Platter]

Interesting analysis of Norm and his comedy from YouTube mental health therapist Dr. Grande.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mGkxFWOTdbo

[Frank Stallone]

Finally I have my revenge.

[Chedney Honks]

What exactly was he accused of then in the end?

Groped the buttocks of that person in the photograph, allegedly. I'll believe that he did that. Unacceptable.

He himself said he pretended to be drunk to try it on with women. Not a very funny bit, so I'll believe he did that for the sake of argument. Is that in itself unacceptable? Or did he say he groped them? If so, unacceptable, of course.

I'm really just trying to get a full picture now the dust has settled. What exactly is he said to have done?

I'll believe it all. I'm just trying to put his behaviour in context. Is he a Cosby, a Louis CK or a what?

[13 schoolyards]

Aside from everything else, it seems that he wasn't a guy who had a lot of time for comedians he didn't think were good, and a lot of those comedians that he didn't think were good were women.

That's not to say he didn't also think a lot of male comedians were no good, but after his death it seemed to be mostly women comedians talking about how he was dismissive or insulting or it was a let down to meet him.

[Chedney Honks]

I don't have any problem with him dismissing or insulting comedians he didn't think were good, whether or not they're women. I don't care about people not feeling warmly welcomed by him, either. These people were clearly nothing to him and not on his level. It's not very nice necessarily but he wasn't trying to climb a career ladder or win cunts of gold. He didn't seem to rate many other comedians full stop.

It felt to me after his death like a few people were keen to put the boot in and then...it fizzled out through lack of material.

[BeardFaceMan]

I don't have any problem with him dismissing or insulting comedians he didn't think were good, whether or not they're women. I don't care about people not feeling warmly welcomed by him, either. These people were clearly nothing to him and not on his level. It's not very nice necessarily but he wasn't trying to climb a career ladder or win cunts of gold. He didn't seem to rate many other comedians full stop.

It felt to me after his death like a few people were keen to put the boot in and then...it fizzled out through lack of material.

Here's the quote from him regarding pretending to be drunk -

And I'd do it to get girls! I'd be in a bar and for some reason when you're drunk, girls will put up with it if you try to grope them or whatever. (In a high-pitched voice🙂 "What are you doing? Haha!" If you're sober, they're like, "Hey! Just what do you think you're doing?" So I'd just garble my words. I have used being a drunk to my advantage many times.

So not really fizzling out through lack of material, like most other cases it fizzles out because no one gives enough of a shit.

[chveik]

It felt to me after his death like a few people were keen to put the boot in and then...it fizzled out through lack of material.

not really, those women were saying that he was a great comedian but at the same time also a creep.

[ImmaculateClump]

People are binary, black and white, they're either good or bad. Nobody is a complicated, interesting mess.

"let he who is without sin cast the first stone"
twitter: "aye, alright then, hold me coat"

I don't think the old game of "lynch the dead" has lost it's lustre. Like you say, they must have ran out of ammo.

Does the fact that Norm was smouldering change anything? I know how that sounds, but,

Obviously it's not something you do to anyone on a first meeting, and I'm not excusing his behaviour at all, but different times and all that, there would have been a bit of that vibe, "I'm going to meet Norm because he's great, but also ..."
He might have gotten the vibe now and again when a fan was rubbing against him like an eager cat for a snap that a little bum squeeze wouldn't be entirely inappropriate or unwelcome?

Opportunistic sleezebaggery, definitely. Especially considering he was sober, it comes across a bit calculated and mocking.

[chveik]

fuck off with the different times bollocks, those incidents were all fairly recent. this is a comedy forum and we have to acknowledge how toxic the comedy world actually is for women,

[ImmaculateClump]

Oh right, sorry, I didn't know that.
Yeah, I'm not saying it's not. It's horrible.

[Chedney Honks]

The pretending to be drunk to avoid getting in trouble for groping women is unacceptable to me, and yet that's only his notoriously unreliable word. A bizarre thing to lie about but he certainly wasn't 'caught out'. He actively shared that information to comment on the absurd inconsistency that drunkenness seems to affect moral boundaries. Weird fucking thing to say or do but do we think he was wilfully outing himself as an abuser?

Why did people apparently not give a shit enough, and yet Louis CK and Cosby and whoever else saw a slew of accounts and corroborated accusations?

Is it because he's dead?

I'm not being facetious. I genuinely didn't see anything apart from the photograph and I followed the news pretty closely. Seems like the topic completely died everywhere but on here.

[C_Larence]

I assume it died because there's nothing that can come of it now. Maybe if people had come out with these stories while he was alive it would be different, but what happens now? Netflix take down NMHAS?

[BeardFaceMan]

The pretending to be drunk to avoid getting in trouble for groping women is unacceptable to me, and yet that's only his notoriously unreliable word. A bizarre thing to lie about but he certainly wasn't 'caught out'. He actively shared that information to comment on the absurd inconsistency that drunkenness seems to affect moral boundaries. Weird fucking thing to say or do but do we think he was wilfully outing himself as an abuser?

Why did people apparently not give a shit enough, and yet Louis CK and Cosby and whoever else saw a slew of accounts and corroborated accusations?

Is it because he's dead?

I'm not being facetious. I genuinely didn't see anything apart from the photograph and I followed the news pretty closely. Seems like the topic completely died everywhere but on here.

So you have photographic evidence of something he bragged about and it's still not enough? And you wonder how guys like this keep getting a pass? He wasn't outing himself as an abuser because that wasn't how he saw himself, it was hi-jinks to him.

[Chedney Honks]

I've just read an article with some more stories of him harassing a comedy club waitress and a female comedian, so I can see there's more than the photo (where you can't see anything, but I believe it happened). I'm just surprised that I can't find more given some of the claims that this was a pattern of behaviour.

Although I'm asking questions here, I'm not trying to minimise or discredit. I fully believe the three accounts I've heard and I will choose to believe his own words about his behaviour. All completely unacceptable. I'm just surprised that's all there is out there given the nature of the allegations.

BeardFace

It's not photographic evidence of anything except he took a photo standing next to someone, but I'll believe it in the spirit of trust and the importance of believing victims.

I don't 'wonder how guys keeping getting a free pass' nor am I giving him a free pass. I was asking in good faith what he's apparently done and expressing surprise that I even have to ask given the nature of what little I'd heard.

[BeardFaceMan]

I think more women generally don't come forward because they're usually faced with people 'just asking questions'.

[Chedney Honks]

Oh do fuck off.

I haven't doubted or questioned any single detail or account, so stick your coy remark up your fucking bollocks.

I'm not trying to let the cunt off the hook. I'm asking if anything else came out. You had fuck all to share but I found more myself.

[BeardFaceMan]

You asked for a reason, I gave you a genuine one, I'm sorry that made you angry.

[Chedney Honks]

No. You gave an imaginary reason to score a cute point by referencing my phrasing. In doing so, you tried to frame my posts as the reason women don't speak up. That annoyed me because it's cheap and dishonest.

It might get past the majority of dickheads on here but I'm telling you to fuck off.

[QDRPHNC]

You asked for a reason, I gave you a genuine one, I'm sorry that made you angry.

This isn't Twitter, you don't have to try to win the conversation.

[BeardFaceMan]

Not trying to, he asked why more women didn't speak out, I gave him a reason, thats it.

[Magnum Valentino]

Edit: not qualified to comment.

[mr. logic]

"let he who is without sin cast the first stone"
twitter: "aye, alright then, hold me coat"

Of course Macdonald himself was happy enough to ignore this edict in his rush to cancel Albert Fish

[Twit 2]

Now that the dust has settled, I think I can sum up my opinion on Norm like this: I used to watch him and think, "He's funny, but I wonder if he's a bit of a cunt;" now I watch him and think, "He's funny and I know he's a bit of a cunt."

[lankyguy95]

Now that the dust has settled, I think I can sum up my opinion on Norm like this: I used to watch him and think, "He's funny, but I wonder if he's a bit of a cunt;" now I watch him and think, "He's funny and I know he's a bit of a cunt."

Actually, we don't know what they've done with his ashes.

[Dusty Substance]

Actually, we don't know what they've done with his ashes.

Hope someone threw them in Barbara Walters' eyes.

[lankyguy95]

Hope someone threw them in Barbara Walters' eyes.

I'd considered the fact that Artie Lange had somehow outlived Norm but I'd forgotten about Barbara Walters.

I think it's fair to say she's had the last laugh.

[checkoutgirl]

not really, those women were saying that he was a great comedian but at the same time also a creep.

It's both, nobody gives a shit because there's not much there at the moment it seems. It's like the toilet stolen from the cop shop, the police say they've nothing to go on.

[Famous Mortimer]

I haven't doubted or questioned any single detail or account, so stick your coy remark up your fucking bollocks.

Although I'm asking questions here

16 minutes is a long time to remember something you did, I'll admit.