New David Simon joint: "We Own This City"

[Ferris]

Anyone else excited for this? Chronicling the rise and fall of Baltimore PD's "elite" Gun and Trace Task Force.

Basically, they were massively, clownishly corrupt - essentially driving around robbing citizens and drug dealers (then selling the drugs), charging over time then going on vacation for a few weeks, the works[nb]The Baltimore Sun has an infographic here and you can see what they were all charged with: https://data.baltimoresun.com/news/gun-trace-overview/[/nb].

The TV series is being made by HBO and Simon on the basis of a book and is in pre-production now (though I think it will start shooting soon if not already). A lot of alumni from Simon's previous stuff so you're guaranteed a good cast and I'm assuming the writing and understanding of the case will be similarly excellent.

Hoping to see this end of this year or start of the next, but looking forward to it anyway.

[kngen]

I'm looking forward to this, as I rewatched the Wire in the wake of the BLM protests and - with stuff like Freddie Carlos Gray, Jr. fresh in my mind - I found it really difficult to reconcile Simon and Burns' view of the BPD and the far more appalling reality that was being unveiled on an almost daily basis, to the point I had to stop watching.

Hopefully this won't pull its punches or obfuscate in quite the same way.

[Ferris]

Yes the reconciling was awkward, and it felt fucking strange cheering for McNulty or Bunk or even Daniels on a recent rewatch.

I sort of believe The Wire's portrayal of the organization (made up of people who are largely good, and well-meaning but flawed, and real pieces of shit) but it's hard to see the actions of good people when the shitty cops have such an outsized (?) influence on perception or the organization's outreach at large.

Hopefully this is more balanced. Either way I'm really excited to see it.

[kngen]

Yes the reconciling was awkward, and it felt fucking strange cheering for McNulty or Bunk or even Daniels on a recent rewatch.

Precisely.

Funnily enough, I watched Generation Kill instead - clearly I had a thirst for 'failing institution porn'. That seemed to have a far more believable take on the meta-narrative Simon likes to trade in - a handful of half-decent human beings surrounded by psychopaths and morons (often in leadership positions) utterly unable to not ruin people's lives (or indeed end them) despite their best intentions due to the systemic failure they find themselves trapped in. Then again, Simon and Burns weren't responsible for the source material, even if the adaptation was pretty masterful.

[jobotic]

I really want to see Generation Kill again.

[Keebleman]

Will Starship do the title song?

[Waking Life]

It's actually an interesting mix of Wire actors in it and glad to see Jamie Hector in as 5-0.

I suspect part of the reason The Wire didn't really focus much on the more brutalised corruption was to emphasise the high-level incompetence (which enables and encourages it). Although I do think the 'juking the stats' element could have explored it more, as well as the dubious personal motivations / racism that cops may have (Herc was probably as close as they got). That might be giving them a free pass though, as I daresay a lot of it was also down to their own personal biases and experience. There is definitely a love for some of the individuals working in the police, but I don't think either are positive of the institution. Following David Simon on Twitter (when he's not using clumsy compound swears), he was certainly incensed about Freddie Gray and it being a product of institutional racism. It will be interesting to see how it explores policing twenty-ish years on - I don't expect it will be pulling punches.

Slightly disappointed it's only a miniseries although I thought The Plot Against America was great. Show Me A Hero not so much.

[sevendaughters]

cops with cops, which is how we mostly see the police in The Wire, will always ring differently and more humanely than cops with perps or just regular people in their way. we also mostly see plainclothes police rather than the meatheads in the rank and file; Herc is kind of an anomaly, and his lack of aptitude for the role is repeatedly flagged up. not saying that plainclothes are good (just yesterday in Liverpool I saw a totally pointless shakedown while I was waiting for a bus by a total plainclothes twat) but think of all the extra-judicial killings going on of late, most of them if not all are by some trumped-up prick in uniform.

there is a moderate amount of 'we want the police to win here' in the Wire, and some outright uncritical copaganda does creep in (it's such a small scene and I have mentioned it before but there is a total strawman scene where Rhonda and Daniels try to get some data off a network provider and they won't, citing confidentiality, and we're meant to think this guy in a suit is a shithead) but on the whole I think it is relatively balanced and humane; perhaps its sympathy and balance is that of the journalist rather than the socialist, but still, it beats the Shield or some shit. Perhaps by reestablishing how everyone thinks it is 'the game' gives it the parameters of the dealers being ok and even expecting of some rough treatment at the hands of corrupt officials.

[Ferris]

The Wire also shows some pretty unvarnished police brutality and abuse of power, but it is very infrequent and not really done in depth (I'm thinking Bird getting beaten up in the interview room - they cut to outside the door and do a zoom out), and Herc and Carver take a huge wodge of cash each during a raid which is never commented on again.

Is that a realistic portrayal of the level of corruption and unwarranted violence? Maybe; but similar to previous posters I expect the new series won't pull any punches.

[kngen]

The Wire also shows some pretty unvarnished police brutality and abuse of power, but it is very infrequent and not really done in depth (I'm thinking Bird getting beaten up in the interview room - they cut to outside the door and do a zoom out)

Bird is portrayed as such a fucking horrible bastard, I'm not exactly sure we're supposed to be repelled by the unseen punishment that takes place. If anything, it's portrayed as just desserts.

Also, in S4 or 5 (or both. Like I say, I stopped my most recent rewatch halfway through, so details are hazy) there was a portrayal of an unrepentantly corrupt and cuntish uniformed cop, but he was black. I'm sure that seemed like 'rich, complex storytelling' in the writers' room at the time. In the BLM-era, it comes across as a total copout.

there is a total strawman scene where Rhonda and Daniels try to get some data off a network provider and they won't, citing confidentiality, and we're meant to think this guy in a suit is a shithead

Funnily enough, it was that scene where I really started to question what the fuck I was watching, and gave up a couple of episodes after that. I was reminded of Simon's ludicrous column following Snowden's NSA revelations, claiming it was all 'bullshit' and 'faux outrage'. I never bothered reading his Twitter head to head with Snowden, but he's such a stubborn bastard I'd be wholly unsurprised if it changed his mind on anything.

[Waking Life]

It's interesting - if they'd continued on with the focus of the first series (i.e. the police), they would have had to explore the actual policing properly. I agree with the post above in that it is rank and file (based on my own limited personal interactions, with Herc embodying it to some degree), but it is culture enables the behaviours. The point on the police being institutionally racist is not particularly explicit (perhaps implied through its drug policing), especially in the context of a relatively mixed ethnic police force. I doubt they would have thought the BPD to be 'progressive', so that's why it feels a bit out of sync to ignore it.

Had there been a sixth series, the focus was apparently going to be on Latinos in Baltimore, but that's not foreshadowed in any way. I suspect that might have been an interesting avenue into it, but would have felt too late in the day and slightly selective.

Anyway, the book sounds really interesting so I just hope that six episodes gives it enough breathing room to be more than just a story (which is the challenge with adaptations).

Looking at his Wikipedia, there are a lot of interesting projects David Simon has tried to get off the ground. HBO has been very generous to him, so hope that this makes it to a show, even if the territory is familiar:

The Avenue: A book with William F. Zorzi Jr., on the Baltimore drug epidemic from 1951 to late 1980s

[chveik]

i doubt Simon can really be objective about the police's actions, at this point in his career. and twitter has fried a good chunk of his brain.

[Ferris]

Bird is portrayed as such a fucking horrible bastard, I'm not exactly sure we're supposed to be repelled by the unseen punishment that takes place. If anything, it's portrayed as just desserts.

There's a lot of other stuff that is implied but never shown - the whole ethos of "the western district way" is just heavy handed violence though it's not really show what or how that works.

Prez pistol-whips a child (while in the high rises with the explicit aim of handing out drunken violence for no real reason), they all beat the shit out of a runner for punching a cop in the terrace, what's-his-name shitty cop is regularly shown threatening and harassing people (with a lot more implied), Herc has several complaints of violence against him (that are explicitly not sustained but explicitly "all true") and it doesn't stop him rising up the ranks... etc.

I wonder if Simon would have soft-pedalled that as much today? Or if that even is soft-pedalling or if that's a fair representation? I have no idea, but I imagine the intervening 20 years will definitely change the tone somewhat.

Edit: officer walker openly walks around robbing people and breaks a child's finger with complete immunity, I suppose.

[sevendaughters]

there's some other low-key stuff that rings true that I don't know how to feel about it. like the two drunks who get detailed and are just arsed about claiming OT and slacking off and then getting off the job as quick as they can with full pension...I think the show says 'this is bad' but I honestly can't dislike them at all.

[kngen]

Prez pistol-whips a child (while in the high rises with the explicit aim of handing out drunken violence for no real reason), they all beat the shit out of a runner for punching a cop in the terrace,

The Prez storyline is one of a only a few I can think of[nb]EDIT: of the examples we've been discussing here. I'm sure there are others.[/nb] where the audience is invited to confront the consequences of one of the protagonist's actions, and even then he achieves redemption when he becomes a teacher in S4 (following Ed Burns' own career path - wonder if there was any latent guilt laundered through that particular character arc).

IIRC, it was Kima who led the charge against (and was the most brutal in the beating of) the runner who shoved the old cop over. I suppose you could argue that this was a comment on how women of colour can be co-opted into a culture of police brutality as much as anyone, but it certainly seemed to be  framed as a 'yass kween' girlboss liberal fantasy, just like when she bodyslammed the obnoxious fratboy to the road while her long-suffering, prefer-to-not-be-violent (yawn! booooring!) partner watches on.

Or maybe I'm just nitpicking now.

[sevendaughters]

there are few redemptive moments in the series and as something grounded in realism that is to be expected. You could make a case for Poot getting out of the game or Namond having a second chance in life, both of whom don't get the emotional screentime to really explore their pain, but we can tell they've suffered to get where they are.

my view of the show, which I recently acquired after rewatching it, is that Bubbles is the real heart of the show, that every bit of crap in the city eventually washes up on him, and yet he is the only one who is seen grappling with trauma and consequence. he doesn't transcend shit, but his final victory of being allowed to sit in his sister's kitchen, is the most real of all the positive upticks.

[Ferris]

We are not wholly bad or good, who live our lives under Milk Wood the oppressive yoke of institutionalized violence.

[Ferris]

Just found out about this podcast made by the BBC on the Gun Trace Task Force - it's called "Bad Cops" (terrible name). For someone who is interested and motivated to learn more about the case, it's a bit mad this is so poorly marketed I only heard about this in the last week but there you go. Thanks BBC Worldwide!

Some annoying stylistic choices that make it feel like Serial but it's a good listen and worth a go. 7 eps, ~25 mins a go so it's not a huge commitment and I enjoyed it, although I knew a lot about the unit already so some of the surprises and narrative setups fell a bit flat (for me anyway).

Recommended for anyone interested in the unit or policing in Baltimore in general.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w13xtvk9/episodes/downloads