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Not getting racism when you're young

Started by Rev+, September 18, 2021, 12:37:19 AM

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flotemysost

Quote from: MikeP on September 18, 2021, 04:28:15 PM
Children were often taught the wisdom of the rhyme "sticks and stones may break my bones but calling never harms me".
A lesson which more people ought to take on board.

Oh of course, my bad, we should be teaching minority kids to accept racist insults hurled their way, not teaching people not to be racist in the first place. Fucking Christ.

Quote from: MikeP on September 18, 2021, 04:28:15 PMI have many times been discriminated against for reasons including race, colour and culture. That is what anti-racism should target, not words.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but based on what you've posted so far, I'm going to assume you're not someone who identifies as being from an ethnic minority (genuine apologies if you are). If not then please get absolutely fucked with lecturing about anti-racism after whingeing about how horrendous racist slurs are just another perfectly acceptable way of describing someone's ethnicity.

Johnny Yesno

bgmnts, you're asking whether it is racist for a white person to mock another white person for turning puce with bigotry. That's the kind of I'M JUST ASKING QUESTIONS studied idiocy of our friend MikeP, here. Are you sure you want to die on the same hill as him?

Johnny Yesno

#92
Quote from: MikeP on September 18, 2021, 04:28:15 PM
Children were often taught the wisdom of the rhyme "sticks and stones may break my bones but calling never harms me".
A lesson which more people ought to take on board.

Mike, Mikey, mate. If you're not deliberately trying to get a rise out of people, I suggest you spend a bit more time thinking about this before you make yourself look even more stupid than you already have.

A wise poster on these boards once gave us his perspective on why we shouldn't use the n-word on these boards even ironically. He explained that whenever he had heard the word used by white people in real life, it had pretty much always come loaded with the threat of violence and that online it still triggers [nb]I know, but this is an appropriate use of the word, so shut up[/nb]a certain fight-or-flight bodily reaction. He also explained that he appreciates what can seem like pointless censorship of the word because it demonstrates a willingness to consider other people's feelngs.

And I realised that I can totally relate to this even though I'm not from a minority group. I have a similar reaction when homophobic slurs get used near me because despite not being gay, my experience of hearing them as a schoolkid was for them to be sometimes rapidly followed up by a kicking. So, these days, if some drunken arsehole is bandying one of those words about at the pub, I'm thinking 'Oh, god, it's one of them. Get ready to leg it.'

But carry on as you are, if you wish. Don't whinge if you get the sense that people inexplicably think you're a bigoted arsehole, though.

Bernice

Quote from: MikeP on September 18, 2021, 04:28:15 PM
I have many times been actually discriminated against for reasons including race, colour and culture. That is what anti-racism should target, not words.

That is exactly what anti-racism does target, you prize fucking plum. It can easily do so while we all go on recognising the obvious fact that racist slurs are racist slurs. If 'mere words' didn't fly for Ezra Pound, it's unlikely to do so for Mike P.

SpiderChrist

Quote from: MikeP on September 18, 2021, 04:28:15 PM
I have never been verbally discriminated against because I really don't care what you call me. I have many times been actually discriminated against for reasons including race, colour and culture. That is what anti-racism should target, not words.

Where's that ignore button?

chveik

profile > modify profile > edit ignore list

SpiderChrist

QuoteI have never been verbally discriminated against because I really don't care what you call me. I have many times been actually discriminated against for reasons including race, colour and culture. That is what anti-racism should target, not words.

Sorry, but how did you know the reasons for all this discrimination if words weren't used? Maybe they just thought you were a cunt.

jamiefairlie

Quote from: Johnny Yesno on September 18, 2021, 05:20:08 PM
Mike, Mikey, mate. If you're not deliberately trying to get a rise out of people, I suggest you spend a bit more time thinking about this before you make yourself look even more stupid than you already have.

A wise poster on these boards once gave us his perspective on why we shouldn't use the n-word on these boards even ironically. He explained that whenever he had heard the word used by white people in real life, it had pretty much always come loaded with the threat of violence and that online it still triggers [nb]I know, but this is an appropriate use of the word, so shut up[/nb]a certain fight-or-flight bodily reaction. He also explained that he appreciates what can seem like pointless censorship of the word because it demonstrates a willingness to consider other people's feelngs.

And I realised that I can totally relate to this even though I'm not from a minority group. I have a similar reaction when homophobic slurs get used near me because despite not being gay, my experience of hearing them as a schoolkid was for them to be sometimes rapidly followed up by a kicking. So, these days, if some drunken arsehole is bandying one of those words about at the pub, I'm thinking 'Oh, god, it's one of them. Get ready to leg it.'

But carry on as you are, if you wish. Don't whinge if you get the sense that people inexplicably think you're a bigoted arsehole, though.

That's my experience too, any kind of slur spoken out loud automatically sets of my impending aggro spider sense and I just need to get the fuck away from it. I also include fucking banter shite like anti Scottish/Welsh/Irish etc stuff and especially anti Catholic sentiments in Scotland

Video Game Fan 2000

Always get depressed thinking about kids who had reams of p*ki jokes before high school because that's not the kind of thing you find funny as a kid. Mick and Paddy you can get because stupidity is funny. Jew jokes and Scotsman jokes are interchangeable when they just mean someone being a tightarse. But the punchlines with p*ki jokes were always about having two dozen kids, smelling of shit, benefits, hairy kids and girls, etc. its dead giveaway that kid had a dad or uncle that just drilled racist jokes into the kid from a young age. It was always one kid who had a dozen of them.

Kankurette

Quote from: jamiefairlie on September 18, 2021, 06:41:33 PM
That's my experience too, any kind of slur spoken out loud automatically sets of my impending aggro spider sense and I just need to get the fuck away from it. I also include fucking banter shite like anti Scottish/Welsh/Irish etc stuff and especially anti Catholic sentiments in Scotland
And Jew jokes in my case. Or commenting about how we own everything, or we're hypochondriacs. Fuck off with that shite.

jamiefairlie

Quote from: Kankurette on September 18, 2021, 06:57:42 PM
And Jew jokes in my case. Or commenting about how we own everything, or we're hypochondriacs. Fuck off with that shite.

Yeah anything like that, usually said overly loud by a Begbie type "the sort that only laughs at his own jokes". I can sense them a mile off and I run like fuck.

Brundle-Fly

Forty-something years ago, I remember enjoying racist jokes. I was ignorant and stuff like 2Tone, punk, and RAR really put me straight about that. Anybody who says politics in rock/pop is toothless is a fool.

Cold Meat Platter

If you're going to go around saying things like "well it's just short for Pakistani what's all the fuss about?" then you may as well have 'WANKER' tattooed on your forehead and save everyone time.

Bazooka

Quote from: chveik on September 18, 2021, 01:53:15 PM
i know it's not racist but i do hate when tennis pundits say 'aussie'. it sounds silly and patronising

i 'got' racism quite quickly, my parents being socialists and all that.

Oh gosh I know, it's as bad as someone being so high and mighty but not using capital letters to start a sentence.

Quote from: Bazooka on September 18, 2021, 08:05:24 PM
Oh gosh I know, it's as bad as someone being so high and mighty but not using capital letters to start a sentence.

Who's being high and mighty?


Brundle-Fly

The P-word is an odd one. It raises hackles with most decent folk but it doesn't have the same 1970s scumbag NF connotations for other nationalities.  My decade younger (for generational context/ humblebrag) missus is of North African/ South Of France heritage and thinks the term 'black' is pejorative, even though I did have to pull her up on using the 'P' word when we first met. Same with my Scottish GF from years earlier.

chveik

Quote from: Bazooka on September 18, 2021, 08:05:24 PM
Oh gosh I know, it's as bad as someone being so high and mighty but not using capital letters to start a sentence.

weird take

touchingcloth

Quote from: Brundle-Fly on September 18, 2021, 08:40:33 PM
The P-word is an odd one. It raises hackles with most decent folk but it doesn't have the same 1970s scumbag NF connotations for other nationalities.  My decade younger (for generational context/ humblebrag) missus is of North African/ South Of France heritage and thinks the term 'black' is pejorative, even though I did have to pull her up on using the 'P' word when we first met. Same with my Scottish GF from years earlier.

Here in Portugal, "preto" is the word for a black object, while "negro" describes a black person. I always want to use preto to describe people because as a Brit negro feels wrong, but preto is the pejorative here.

Maybe the same is true of the p-word in France.

chveik

it's not i'm afraid. never heard anyone using it though, not many immigrants from that part of the world here

Cold Meat Platter

I mean they're just 'letters' at the end of the day signifying components of words broadly analogous to sounds. If you want to get offended at sounds that's your look-out. I've been hearing sounds all my life and I'll be fucked if I can think of anytime I got offended by one.

Brundle-Fly

Quote from: touchingcloth on September 18, 2021, 08:49:45 PM
Here in Portugal, "preto" is the word for a black object, while "negro" describes a black person. I always want to use preto to describe people because as a Brit negro feels wrong, but preto is the pejorative here.

Maybe the same is true of the p-word in France.

Or for a French person who has lived in London for the past twenty years.

touchingcloth

Yep, it's probably _fine_ for them to say our p-word.

thenoise

When I say Aussie I am definitely being racist.

Brundle-Fly

Quote from: touchingcloth on September 18, 2021, 09:11:05 PM
Yep, it's probably _fine_ for them to say our p-word.

Especially for somebody who's been once called our p-word on a picnic in Finsbury Park.

itsfredtitmus

I wholly believe in racism I guess you can say I "get it" now whereas once I didn't

flotemysost

Quote from: Brundle-Fly on September 18, 2021, 08:40:33 PM
The P-word is an odd one. It raises hackles with most decent folk but it doesn't have the same 1970s scumbag NF connotations for other nationalities.  My decade younger (for generational context/ humblebrag) missus is of North African/ South Of France heritage and thinks the term 'black' is pejorative, even though I did have to pull her up on using the 'P' word when we first met. Same with my Scottish GF from years earlier.

A colleague of mine, who is a lovely and very politically lefty person who grew up in a rural village in Southern Italy, once told me of how her brother is affectionately known as "the P****" (or whatever the Italian translation is) back home because he has quite a dark skin tone.

I dunno, having had various relatives suffer this term being used aggressively against them (in the UK), I'm not too inclined to be lenient about it, though I appreciate its usage in the UK is possibly quite different to other countries. In the case of Italy, I know that Southerners have historically faced huge amounts of prejudice (not entirely dissimilar to the "no Blacks, no dogs, no Irish" policy in the UK, as I understand it) so I can see how that might foster resentment towards immigrant communities maybe, though the topic of "racism in Mediterranean nations" prob warrants a whole separate thread in itself.

Anyway, not to keep flogging a dead horse as I assume MikeP has buggered off out of this thread if they have any sense, but though this was worth calling out, maybe

Quote from: MikeP on September 18, 2021, 04:28:15 PM
Were I so inclined I could be extremely abusive about someone's race without ever using a proscribed word.  But not being an inconsiderate twat I would never dream of doing so. I care too much for reasonable people's feelings

That should be a bare fucking minimum. How considerate of you! You don't deserve a fucking medal for not being a racist cunt to people's faces, you know. People of colour/ethnic minorities have to suppress reactions to racist microaggressions every fucking day and don't get any praise for it, so your spiel about sticks and stones is spectacularly tasteless. Go ahead and lecture us about how everyone needs to grow a backbone while presumably knowing absolutely fuck all about what it's like to go through life absorbing society's insecurities and prejudices and not being allowed to express how fucking draining that is in case some cunt calls you a snowflake.

Captain Z

Growing up in Birmingham, for me Aussie = Aus-born.

TrenterPercenter

Quote from: Captain Z on September 19, 2021, 02:07:19 AM
Growing up in Birmingham, for me Aussie = Aus-born.


Very good.  We all say "Gaaaaaaaaaammmmmoooooooon" too (like Shaaaaaaaron)

Shoulders?-Stomach!

I got in trouble one time for using the word 'coons'. I didn't know what it meant or who it referred to. I just overheard it being used and absorbed it as being 'an insult'. When the teacher explained I felt like shrivelling up and dying. I must have got off lightly purely through my reaction being so horrified. Likewise, I have told this one before', but the first time I heard 'p**i shop' I thought it was some strange alternative newsagent concerning packaging. Truly. This was North Lincolnshire, not exactly cosmopolitan.

However I do remember at school someone doing the eye slanting and 'Chinese, Japanese, dirty knees, what are these?' and understanding what that referred to. I suppose it would be impossible not to.

The kid who used to shout ROAAAHHH! ME RIKEY A ROT! for crowd reactions in Geography was even less subtle.