"Your Honour, I spent the child maintenance on dildos"

[Buelligan]

The quandary equally applies to a woman whose knowledge or morals or culture or family or location prevent her from ousting the infant, is it fair she also gets to foot the whole bill?  Personally, I think the state should pay for all children.  Food, clothes, education, everything, for all of them.

[first skeleton on mars]

I'm fascinated to know what made the dildo spending cost 400 euros.

https://www.cookdandbombd.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,89736.0.html

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

Lets say you accidentally get someone pregnant and you obviously don't want the child but the other one does, are you still legally obliged to pay child support?

Yes. It's fair, and here's why:

If the woman chooses to keep the baby, no court in the land can force you to be an active parent in that child's life. The days of shotgun weddings are over and thank goodness for that. She births the child, raises the child, deals with "why don't I have a daddy", deals with the difficult teenage years on her own, does her best to negotiate any new relationships/friction between child and new boyfriend/gives up on relationships altogether because it's too fraught, pays the bulk of the expenses for the child, bears the social stigma of being a "single mother popping out kids for welfare", deals with whatever shit her parents/family dole out, deals with your parents/family if they want to be involved even if you don't, all that hassle - because that's what she signed on for.

You: pay a pittance in child maintenance and never have to see the kid if you don't want to.

[Glebe]

Judge Larkin.

The Larkins are sex mad!

[bgmnts]

Yes. It's fair, and here's why:

If the woman chooses to keep the baby, no court in the land can force you to be an active parent in that child's life. The days of shotgun weddings are over and thank goodness for that. She births the child, raises the child, deals with "why don't I have a daddy", deals with the difficult teenage years on her own, does her best to negotiate any new relationships/friction between child and new boyfriend/gives up on relationships altogether because it's too fraught, pays the bulk of the expenses for the child, bears the social stigma of being a "single mother popping out kids for welfare", deals with whatever shit her parents/family dole out, deals with your parents/family if they want to be involved even if you don't, all that hassle - because that's what she signed on for.

You: pay a pittance in child maintenance and never have to see the kid if you don't want to.

So paying for a child that you didn't want and that you had no say in being born is fair?

Dont care about any of what it has done to the mother's life and how she's treated, in this context, as she chose to have the baby, you know what you're getting into.

Still think that's very unjust.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

So paying for a child that you didn't want and that you had no say in being born is fair?

It isn't fair, any more than denying women access to birth control is fair.

[bgmnts]

It isn't fair, any more than denying women access to birth control is fair.

Of course that isn't fair.

Nobody should be forced to raise or birth a baby.

[JamesTC]

So paying for a child that you didn't want and that you had no say in being born is fair?

Men can choose not to have sex if they don't want children.

[imitationleather]

This season bgmnts is going to be an MRA.

[bgmnts]

Men can choose not to have sex if they don't want children.

Okay...

That applies to women as well yeah?

[Glebe]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIAJemmO-bg#t=3m52s

[Famous Mortimer]

Okay...

That applies to women as well yeah?

What point are you trying to make? Wear a fucking condom and shut up.

[bgmnts]

Nah fuck it pointless.

[Huxleys Babkins]

If you can prove you've been tricked into having unprotected sex, there's a case to be made that you've been sexually assaulted and you could have your liability toward the child reduced in court.

But, just like any criminal case, you'll only get a prosecution if it can be proved beyond reasonable doubt. I'm sure I don't need to post the statistics for successful prosecutions for rape and sexual assault. In short, the outlook ain't great in the world of he said, she said.

Either way, do remember that there's still an innocent life caught up in this. You didn't want it, they didn't ask for it either.

So as others have alluded to/demanded, make sure you take precautions of your own and if any potential partner suggests that you shouldn't bother, you really need to be thinking twice before having sex with that person.

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

So paying for a child that you didn't want and that you had no say in being born is fair?

Why should I, the taxpayer, support your child?

Dont care about any of what it has done to the mother's life and how she's treated, in this context, as she chose to have the baby, you know what you're getting into.

I said as much but you didn't bother to read it, did you?

Still think that's very unjust.

So it would be just to let men father all the kids they want and never pay a red cent in maintenance for them? What's your solution?

Follow up question: was I polite and non-aggressive enough for everybody?

[TrenterPercenter]

Okay...

That applies to women as well yeah?

I think in the hypothetical situation that the man and woman don't have sex, the child maintenance bit becomes a moot point.

It's not as simple as people like to make out though; accidents happen all the time with both parties having some responsibility in that but obviously no man has to have an abortion which is not some simple procedure.   Most men not paying CM are dead beats (I say most as I'm sure there are some that have legitimate reasons for not paying i.e. illness etc) who for some reason selfishly don't want to pay for their own kids; the other side of this however is a bloke that pays his CM but the mother doesn't give them access/makes it very difficult for them to see their kids; using them as a way of hurting their ex-partner, which does happen.

[TrenterPercenter]

Follow up question: was I polite and non-aggressive enough for everybody?

Why should I, the taxpayer, support your child?

Fair point well made, small wif of distain but suited to the question it's a 3 out of 10 on aggressometer for me Clive

I said as much but you didn't bother to read it, did you?

The voice is raised but it remains seated, dipping its toes a little in a bath of mumsnet passive-aggressiveness yet not wading any further.  I feel a finger waved but not pointed, 5 out of 10.

So it would be just to let men father all the kids they want and never pay a red cent in maintenance for them? What's your solution?

Something has been thrown; this could be tasty.  Nope, it's not, it's actually more of a warm snowball, fizzling out during it's trajectory and even turning into a potential discussion starter. Pleasant. A warning shot of sort perhaps but generally fair.  Another 3 out of 10 and not a "fuck you" in sight.


Pretty decent tbh.

[Buelligan]

Of course that isn't fair.

Nobody should be forced to raise or birth a baby.

I think it might be useful to remember the child.  The child didn't have unprotected sex nor did it ask to be born, it has no choice at all, it has been summoned by both parents, knowingly or unknowingly. 

As I've already said, I believe the state, all states, should totally fund all children but they don't.  Given that, why is it fair that a child should go without because either parent only signed up for a shag?

[bgmnts]

I think it might be useful to remember the child.  The child didn't have unprotected sex nor did it ask to be born, it has no choice at all, it has been summoned by both parents, knowingly or unknowingly. 

As I've already said, I believe the state, all states, should totally fund all children but they don't.  Given that, why is it fair that a child should go without because either parent only signed up for a shag?

It's not fair at all on the child. Some form of state funding to provide for single households would be invaluable. My father didn't want to have a child, it just happened, my mother wanted to carry it to term, so she did. Ergo, it was her responsibility and we didn't see a penny from him. I'm fine with that. Now, if he initially agreed and then went nah fuck that you're on your own, i'd say he should cough up a few grand.

[kalowski]

Okay...

That applies to women as well yeah?

I'm surprised you've not said "It take two to tango"

[Replies From View]

I've heard of fiddle-dee-idle and on occasion I've ventured forth with fiddle-dee-idle-doe but fiddlydyedoe? Seems like a load of paddywackery to me.

Fiddlydyedoe was the Royals' pet name for Princess Diana and Dodi Fayed combined.

[Replies From View]

Checked the website (for research purposes) and they range from about €30 to stuff like:

"Vixen Maverick VixSkin Realistic Silicone Dildo 7.5 inch" - €134.99.

You can also buy a torso, crotch, knob and balls for €499.99.

Are you sure?  I can't believe M&S are spending anywhere near that on complete mannequins, let alone fragments.

[dissolute ocelot]

Nothing's stopping you signing a contract before you have sex. It's up to you whether you let the lawyer stay and watch.

[Cuellar]

Might get one of those 'make a dildo from a mould of your own penis' kits for a laugh

[Lord Mandrake]

Make a dildo from the mould on your own penis.

[Wonderful Butternut]

Are you sure?  I can't believe M&S are spending anywhere near that on complete mannequins, let alone fragments.

Don't click if your browsing history is monitored by your family or employer, obviously:

https://www.lovehoney.com/sex-toys/dildos/realistic-dildos/p/pipedream-extreme-realistic-male-sex-doll-35oz/a22601g32260.html

[dissolute ocelot]

^ realistic male jellyfish with genuine flippety-floppety action!

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

It's not fair at all on the child. Some form of state funding to provide for single households would be invaluable. My father didn't want to have a child, it just happened, my mother wanted to carry it to term, so she did. Ergo, it was her responsibility and we didn't see a penny from him. I'm fine with that. Now, if he initially agreed and then went nah fuck that you're on your own, i'd say he should cough up a few grand.

Not much to add but I agree again and I think that you have dealt with the counter arguments very well, direct, plain, clearly reasoned.

[AllisonSays]

I believe your account of your own family situation, bgmnts, but in general it would be impossible to prove the distinction in your post there, nobody is signing a form saying they do or don't want a baby before they have unprotected sex.

[Buelligan]

Some mad shit here.  I only wanted a toke, didn't sign up for lung cancer.  Sometimes the ideal outcome, in this case consequence-free unprotected sex, doesn't happen.  Sometimes you get sick or you get pregnant, part of choosing to do those things is accepting the risks.  Even the risks you don't fancy.  That is literally how reality falls.

Now, if we're going to say men, by virtue of mostly[nb]but not always[/nb] not being able to carry a baby to term, get a choice on whether to carry the can for their own choices and women always carry it for everyone, that's a whole 'nother discussion.