Everyday ableism thread

[tookish]

I wanted somewhere to moan about an incident of really insidious ableism - which was a bunch of Rocky Horror fans talking about how Tim Curry has 'no life' because he has acquired disability. Rank fucking assumption from people who allege to be his fans.

He is obviously elderly, with which come all the trappings of old age - being assumed to be infirm and past your prime, and so on.

There's also a kind of pity I get from people for being young and disabled. People will tell me that it's a shame, for one so young. I have had people tell me to my face that they think people with one of my conditions should be sterilised.

Anyway, here's a thread to discuss ableism

[Buelligan]

I'm pretty fit and strong myself but feel I should speak up a bit for my lovely brother.  A big, very tall, strong, youngish man.  The kind of man that looks like he could invade your village and carry off the monks or some shit, cleave a tree, splice a mainbrace, pierced and tattooed like a cunt and now shuffling, dizzy, disorientated, slurred and twitching.  The thing he hates the most, apart from losing his youth, his sight, his bodily control, is the way people look at him, avoid him in the street, treat him like he's high and evil when all he wants is to walk past without falling.

[JesusAndYourBush]

Do they teach about disability in schools? (I'm assuming they don't).

When I was a kid in the 70's and you'd see someone and you could see something wasn't quite right and as a 7-year-old you'd ask your parents and get the reply "Don't stare at him, he was born that way" or something like that.  And then another time you'd be with your friends on a bus and you'd see someone making involuntary movements and making strange sounds and as a child you'd not know how to deal with that, often leading to kids doing cruel imitations of the person, although never in front of them, thankfully.

And recently I got thinking... why don't they teach about disability at school? - explain how different disabilities happen, it'd be in a Biology lesson I suppose.  Prejudices start at a young age but part of it is not understanding something and perhaps finding it a little scary.  If they'd just teach about disability in schools it'd demystify it and I think that'd help.

[earl_sleek]

It would be nice if people on CaB (not everyone, but several posters) could stop using the hateful term 'retard' and it's derivations, please.

[robhug]

Its been a while since I last checked in on Tim Curry, I didn't know about his ill health which was sad but it was relieved ever so slightly by the the way the same question had been phrased previously

[Fambo Number Mive]

Society in England is institutionally abelist. The general public doesn't seem to care about how badly disabled people are treated by the "care" sector (how many people can recall Winterbourne View or Whorlton Hall?), how badly disabled people are treated by the benefits system, the total lack of respect for disabled people in wider society (which has also been shown by covid, most people who can wear a mask won't wear a mask on public transport or shops even if it helps keep CV and CEV people safe) and the way the press treats disabled people.

There's not enough activism around the rights of disabled people, though groups like DPAC do a great job, and its a sad reflection on how selfish and ignorant the average English person is. No idea what the rest of the UK or the rest of the world is like, but I'm ashamed to be English when I look at the way vulnerable and/or disabled people are treated in this country.

[H-O-W-L]

Curry has still gone out of his way to attend every convention he can and do voiceover work ever since his (very debilitating) stroke, which makes him a far stronger, more vibrant person than any of these cunts who're saying this shite.

[Schrodingers Cat]

Society in England is institutionally abelist. The general public doesn't seem to care about how badly disabled people are treated by the "care" sector (how many people can recall Winterbourne View or Whorlton Hall?), how badly disabled people are treated by the benefits system, the total lack of respect for disabled people in wider society (which has also been shown by covid, most people who can wear a mask won't wear a mask on public transport or shops even if it helps keep CV and CEV people safe) and the way the press treats disabled people.

There's not enough activism around the rights of disabled people, though groups like DPAC do a great job, and its a sad reflection on how selfish and ignorant the average English person is. No idea what the rest of the UK or the rest of the world is like, but I'm ashamed to be English when I look at the way vulnerable and/or disabled people are treated in this country.

Let's not forget also how often the phrase "underlying health conditions" has been bandied about the last 18 months. Not in the sense of "these people are for no fault of their own potentially more vulnerable than other so let's be extra careful for their sake" (which is fair enough). Instead it was often used as in "those who died were not as healthy as I am, so were going to die anyway, so who cares?". Not necessarily the same thing as a disability (although obviously in some cases that is the underlying health condition itself), but still quite scary to see the contempt which some people hold anyone who they can consider beneath them.

[kalowski]

Society in England is institutionally abelist.

Agreed. And as ever, CaB favourite Alan Partridge precisely reflects the views of many, many people in the country.

Alan: I see they've opened up the Norfolk Broads to wheelchair users. Unbelievable. It might seem like a good thing but how many people do you know in wheelchairs who genuinely want to go on the Norfolk Broads? I'd suggest it's 0.00000000000000001%. Is it worth the disruption for largely blameless able-bodied people?
Simon: What if you had an accident and were in a wheelchair?
Alan: I'd just watch TV. Or go on the computer. There's loads of things you can do.

[jobotic]

Alan?

[bgmnts]

Not joking but i've never even heard of that before to be honest. People are weird as fuck.

Tim Curry probably does more interesting stuff every day than most Rocky Horror fans do in a lifetime.

[kalowski]

Alan?

Partridge. I'll edit.

[jobotic]

Oh, I see!

[kalowski]

I just think it articulates the ableism I imagine many people experience on a daily basis.

[JaDanketies]

Do they teach about disability in schools? (I'm assuming they don't).

There's loads of disabled people on kids' TV these days, on Cbeebies, presenting or acting in shows or being the kids who the show presenter interacts with. It seems likely to make a difference.

[Ron Maels Moustache]

There's loads of disabled people on kids' TV these days, on Cbeebies, presenting or acting in shows or being the kids who the show presenter interacts with. It seems likely to make a difference.

There was some minor fuss a few years back because Cbeebies presenter Cerrie Burnell had a birth defect (missing lower arm) which led to complaints that this might scare the kiddies. Of course, you just knew it wasn't really the kids who were upset(why would they be?), it was the parents getting freaked out by seeing someone not "normal" on TV. Ridiculous, really.

[JesusAndYourBush]

There was some minor fuss a few years back because Cbeebies presenter Cerrie Burnell had a birth defect (missing lower arm) which led to complaints that this might scare the kiddies. Of course, you just knew it wasn't really the kids who were upset(why would they be?), it was the parents getting freaked out by seeing someone not "normal" on TV. Ridiculous, really.

I remember that.  The kids either didn't notice or weren't bothered by it but some mothers went apeshit.  Frank Spencer first drafts.

And yet if their mate Dave had chopped part of his arm off in a combine harvester they'd probably react totally differently rather than shunning him.  That's why I said they should teach about disability in schools.  Teaching people about the causes of disability, going into what happens with genes, during birth etc so it's something understandable rather than some mysterious 'lurgi' would go a long way to stopping people reacting weirdly to something they probably don't understand.

[checkoutgirl]

ableism

Isn't that disableism? Ableism being someone taking the piss because you can see and look at that idiot with the two legs that can carry him round.

[Dr Rock]

Calling to cancel my pain clinic appointment:

'I'm sorry I can't make my appointment, my nerve pain is very bad, I can't walk'

'Hmm. It's very bad telling us at such short notice'

'Well I didn't know it was going to flare up so badly 24hours ago, it doesn't work like that. I'm sorry to miss the appointment, I've been waiting ages for it, but I literally cannot walk.'

'It's just it costs money'

'I literally cannot walk, how do you suppose I get there, a sledge?'

'No need to be hostile Mr..'

'IAM NOT BEING HOSTILE!!! YOU WERE BEING HOSTILE!!! YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO BE NICE AND UNDERSTANDING AND hello? hello?

[robhug]

get that fat arse down the clinic

[Crabwalk]

Being father to a son with a serious learning disability I barely even know where to start with this thread. But put it this way, we're moving from England to Scotland next year in no small part due to the societal barriers, state hostility and educational othering he's faced in his first 11 years down here.

I saw that CBeebies has announced a new presenter with Down's Syndrome this week though which was really heartening. No doubt he'll get mercilessly bullied on social media and in the street by the high percentage of evil cunts that make up the English population.

[Crabwalk]

Just by voting Tory you're being an ableist scumbag.

[Bigfella]

My brother was mentally and physically handicapped.  He passed away over twenty years ago.  I remember the good things about him more than his disabilities.  Whenever I hear really loud music or cars I smile and think Christ, he would have loved that.  He wasn't a Paralympic gold medallist or Rain Man genius but he was a fundamentally sound bloke, which is more than you can ask of anyone.

[gilbertharding]

My mum had spina bifida and was in a wheelchair from before I was born. I remember the 70s and 80s all the places she couldn't go because there were steps, or the ground was too rough. Especially on holiday - me, my brother and dad all going on the SS Great Britain in Bristol, and her sitting on the dockside waiting...

Obviously it wasn't all like that - there was loads of stuff we did which she could be included in, and she wouldn't have wanted us to miss seeing and doing stuff just because she wasn't there.

Worse than that were rumours (nothing was explicitly said) that some people in my Dad's family had 'legitimate concerns' as we say these days, about him marrying her.

Her last few years were awful, and I feel horrible thinking about it. My dad had a series of strokes, and became just as disabled as her by the end - by which stage she, having lost most of her upper body strength and developed arthritic hands, found it impossible to get herself in and out of her wheelchair.

Not sure how this relates to the thread title - it's just a sad story.

And yet, of course, she was my mum. Not a paralymian, like Bigfella said, yet inspiring in a way. If only I could live up to that.

[Brundle-Fly]

Without having read the specific comments these Rocky Horror fans have said, I'm sure they were not meant with any malice or condescension towards the disabled community. It's just human nature to feel initial shock and perhaps misplaced pity when you see a once vibrant person now a shadow of their former self because of health issues. You only have to look in the Genesis thread.

[thenoise]

Just by voting Tory you're being an ableist scumbag.

Yeah. My parents view disabled rights with the same contempt as "political correctness", as if enabling people who can't walk very well to visit a lavatory is equivalent to censoring a beloved old comedy show because of a naughty word.
Its doubly weird to me because, as two overweight people in their seventies, they will almost certainly become disabled themselves fairly soon. Whereas neither they or anyone they know will ever be an ethnic minority.

[Bigfella]

Without having read the specific comments these Rocky Horror fans have said, I'm sure they were not meant with any malice or condescension towards the disabled community. It's just human nature to feel initial shock and perhaps misplaced pity when you see a once vibrant person now a shadow of their former self because of health issues. You only have to look in the Genesis thread.

Fair play.  To clarify about Paralympians/Rain Man: of course we should celebrate when disabled people make extraordinary achievements.  Sometimes I feel that the media, best intentions notwithstanding, have a condescending tone of 'oh look, sometimes disabled people are just as good as us!'  Maybe I'm oversensitive. Most disabled people are ordinary punters, the same as the rest of us - they are our families, mates and neighbours.  Not directed at you, Brundle, just trying to build on the point you were making.

[gilbertharding]

My mum had spina bifida and was in a wheelchair from before I was born.

Oh God - I'd forgotten (until I read some of the other posts on this thread) all the times we'd be out and I'd notice kids staring at my mum and their parents telling them not to.

I sympathise. I'm squeamish about this stuff myself. It's natural - which isn't the same as it being right.

[Kankurette]

One reason I'm glad I quit my job is because my colleagues found it really funny that someone in their thirties had fibromyalgia. And had to take various meds. "Ooh, how many meds are you on?" "Is there anything that doesn't run in your family?" "You don't have children, how can you possibly be tired all the time?" Fuck OFF. Everyone else talked about their aches and pains, but I wasn't allowed. Every day I wake up and something hurts, and when a flare comes, I can barely stand. I'm going to a gig tonight with friends and I know I'll be paying for it tomorrow.

And also? I am NOT fucking lazy just because I like living in a house, with all its creature comforts, and don't want to go and live out in a remote cabin in bumfuck nowhere. I physically cannot cope with that lifestyle. I can't even go camping, for fuck's sake. Nor am I going to take up running. "Oscar Pistorius did it, what's your excuse?" Oscar Pistorius murdered his girlfriend. He is not a role model. Nor am I going to go on protests, because standing for hours hurts my back and I have panic attacks in crowds. And quite frankly, ableism hurts more from people on the left because you expect them to know better.

It would be nice if people on CaB (not everyone, but several posters) could stop using the hateful term 'retard' and it's derivations, please.

Same, and 'mong'. Admittedly I'm touchy about it because I got called those words, and because one of my cousins has severe cerebral palsy. She's in a home, she can't talk or move - her muscles are degenerated - and she has to be fed through a tube, and frankly I'm amazed she's still alive because we weren't sure if she'd make it out of her teens. She's 25 but mentally, she's a baby.

[gilbertharding]

It would be nice if people on CaB (not everyone, but several posters) could stop using the hateful term 'retard' and its derivations, please.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen - but I'm amazed it still does. Is it an HS Art thing - because I rarely go in there.