Author Topic: Dave Chappelle - The Closer  (Read 12503 times)

Re: Dave Chappelle - The Closer
« Reply #60 on: October 08, 2021, 02:37:24 AM »
I just don't understand why he has to present so much of his opinion. Couldn't he tell a few more jokes and trim the trans stuff to a lean ten? Maybe get political but chat about other things. Broaden the net a bit.

Re: Dave Chappelle - The Closer
« Reply #61 on: October 08, 2021, 02:42:22 AM »
He just doesn't have what he used to have, but he still has his voice and delivery so he can just air himself out and it works well enough to be a Chappelle special. That's how it sounded on the last special I saw.

Chappelle used to be peerless delivery of unique material, now he's a guy that is exceptionally good at talking to a crowd which leads to preaching. With Norm, since Chappelle invited the comparison, his love of jokes as a form always overrode any desire to proselytize. Don't think Chappelle ever had that.

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Re: Dave Chappelle - The Closer
« Reply #62 on: October 08, 2021, 03:08:57 AM »
absolute cheek of dedicating a special to norm while not doing any jokes

stand-ups should stop pretending that they are in any way wise.

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Re: Dave Chappelle - The Closer
« Reply #63 on: October 08, 2021, 10:24:24 AM »
It's such a bizarre thing, its like people collectively keep deciding to pretend that Chappelle is a progressive then being shocked when he isn't, then going straight back to pretending to be shocked again next time.

what the fuck are you talking about. where is this happening.

Re: Dave Chappelle - The Closer
« Reply #64 on: October 08, 2021, 12:07:43 PM »
absolute cheek of dedicating a special to norm while not doing any jokes

There were plenty of jokes. Did you actually watch it?

Re: Dave Chappelle - The Closer
« Reply #65 on: October 08, 2021, 01:52:05 PM »
what the fuck are you talking about. where is this happening.

It happens over and over.

He was one of the very first people to get social media "cancelled" in 2010 when he verbally abused a gay couple at one of his shows.
Somehow this got forgotten and he got a positive reception for his comeback tour a few years later.

Getting bollocked for saying "I'm going to give Trump a chance" in a SNL monologue.

He defends Bill Cosby in one of his specials and includes a long "I'm not changing my pronoun game" rant in another (or the same one, I can't remember), gets cancelled.
Then last year he puts out 8:46 which gets a glowing reception, from critics and social media, as if three years early he hadn't been defending Cosby and making rape jokes.



Re: Dave Chappelle - The Closer
« Reply #66 on: October 08, 2021, 01:57:07 PM »
Arguably it was true even when he walked away from Chappelle's Show. That's usually told as him walking away because he was uncomfortable at white dude bros laughing at stereotypical characters, but the way he told it at the time he was uncomfortable with all of the racial humour on the show - all of it, including the more progressive seeming stuff.

Nothing he said at the time should have made people surprised that he later turned out to have very conservative social views. At the very least, people read progressive/liberal meanings into what he says and does that aren't there, were never there.

Re: Dave Chappelle - The Closer
« Reply #67 on: October 08, 2021, 02:08:33 PM »
There were plenty of jokes. Did you actually watch it?

There were jokes, sure, they just weren’t very good. In fact they were often rubbish.

He could have conceivably pulled this off if he had a nuanced take on it (he didn’t, it extended to why should I care about LGBT people when black people have been oppressed worse/for longer) and was incredibly funny (it wasn’t, featuring lame jokes such as “kick them in the AIDS” which makes sense on no level)

Only got into Chappelle in the last couple of years and have found his technique at times peerless, but his material has gone off a cliff recently leaving only his technique and nothing else.

The GOAT stuff is nonsense, he has the natural ability and the intellect to be but his material lets him down increasingly.


Re: Dave Chappelle - The Closer
« Reply #68 on: October 08, 2021, 02:20:00 PM »
why should I care about LGBT people when black people have been oppressed worse/for longer

I get the feeling he thinks black people are getting strangled to death on the street whereas trans people are just moaning about some pronouns and being Karens. Then his trans friend kills herself and he seems to miss the gravity of that set against his Karens attitude.

I might be reading it wrong though.

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Re: Dave Chappelle - The Closer
« Reply #69 on: October 08, 2021, 02:31:03 PM »
this idea that it's somehow fearless for a multi millionaire superstar comedian to punch down at vulnerable minorities will never not confuse me

Said this in the Glinner thread, but it belongs here, probably:

----------------------------
This sort of shit is why I dislike identity politics, and why intersectionality is so important.

Chapelle strikes me as being a bit like those middle-class cis woman TERFs who cling to the oppressed parts of their identity (and define themselves in opposition to those they see as threatening it - ie. trans women) because their financial privilege has elevated them away from the daily struggles they used to have. Not that they don't still face oppression inherent in society, but money does at least allow them to insulate themselves from some aspects of it.

Chapelle is rich as hell, does pretty much what he wants, and aside from a little bit of pushback on Twitter, is celebrated as a comedy legend by pretty much everyone. So he clings to his status as a black man, and interprets attacks on his shitty views as attacks on his racial identity because it means he doesn't have to seriously consider that he's no longer as oppressed as he used to be when he was black and broke.

Re: Dave Chappelle - The Closer
« Reply #70 on: October 08, 2021, 02:32:01 PM »
he has the natural ability and the intellect to be but his material lets him down increasingly.

A big part of his appeal at his peak was the feeling he had a bottomless bag of anecdotes and observations to dip into, the illusion that he didn't need "material" so much he was going through what was on his mind at his own pace. Take that away and lot of his individual bits are hacky, what if Sesame Street was a rough neighbourhood? and all that.

I think the same goes for Chappelle's Show, because for a comedian at his peak you'd think it would be 50% social commentary and edgy stuff, 50% craft and him using his talent for characters. But it was more like 50% social commentary, 50% absolutely puerile doodie humour. Which works when its a comedian at his peak doing what the fuck he wants. It's Chappelle and what makes him laugh, the audience is just cheering him on because he's brilliant. He goes to the big screen for a skit and you don't know whether it's going be "what if I farted so hard I flew off the toilet" crudity or Silky Johnson brillance. You can't do that into your 40s let alone 50s. If anything he's a victim of never needing material. Now he's older, I do want some fucking good jokes.

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Re: Dave Chappelle - The Closer
« Reply #71 on: October 08, 2021, 03:41:28 PM »
It speaks to a kind of extremely vulnerable narcissism/ego complex in these figures that they have to jump to the defense of one another, and consider being vilified for their statements, tantamount to being put to the stake and burned. I think if I was as rich as Dave or Rowling and I got cancelled I'd just be like "fuck it" and sit on a beach drinking for the rest of my days, content I have to do fuck all and am in no real risk of going back to poverty. I can't imagine giving a toss at that point -- and certainly not entertaining or engaging with it, even to defend myself.

But then again I guess that comes with the legitimate god complex of the whole ordeal; they think "I am god, what I say, no matter what it is, I will still be accepted, because I am an Established Figure now. I am god." and then they get rejected for it and they have to blame the external stimuli, because acknowledging that they said something wrong will collapse their entire internal ego structure -- which is predicated entirely off other people adoring them merely for existing by this point. Further work is a luxury, a pursuit and enjoyment, or even a platform to provide the word of God.

Fascinating, horrible stuff.

Re: Dave Chappelle - The Closer
« Reply #72 on: October 08, 2021, 04:09:28 PM »
He was never broke broke, I dont think, he was identified as a major talent really early on, Mel Brooks and Whoopi Goldberg supported him when he was still a teenager, but racism in production companies and tv stations put dampeners on like a half dozen projects in the late 90s. He had all sorts of stuff from mainstream sitcom to edgier stuff proposed and shitcanned. His appearance in the Larry Sanders Show is making fun of that fact it was common knowledge that Chappelle was being set up as the Next Big Thing and it never happening.

I think contrast was that in late 90s/early 00s he was beloved of left and liberal types, and had their unconditional support. I don't think anyone ever said "hey, wait a second..." over the anti-gay and misogynist stuff. Because outside of that it really was a case of people condemning his comedy and opinions mostly just because he was a black guy who had the temerity to be vastly funnier than his white peers. He seems to have had the same opinions then as now, but the only support he gets is extremely selective.

I think the position he's in now makes more sense when you consider that it really was him against the world for a long time. The most talented guy in the room versus old racists who hate every word that comes out of his mouth for no reason other than he's black. The myth he's speaking from was his reality for a decade or more.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2021, 04:21:08 PM by Video Game Fan 2000 »

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Re: Dave Chappelle - The Closer
« Reply #73 on: October 08, 2021, 05:11:02 PM »
I think it's that only white LGBTQ are listened to and any queer progress in that last few decades is because of white queer people. He seems to think black queer people wouldn't get the time of day off the government or Disney and if it was up to black queer people it would still be in the 1950s. Because traditionally America hasn't given a fuck about black people whether they're queer or not.

That black queer people are broadly not represented in the media might be fair (I don't have time to tally things up here, but Ru Paul seems like an obvious counterpoint) but it's odd to be like this specifically over trans issues because the highest profile trans person after Caitlyn Jenner is probably black actress Laverne Cox from Orange is the New Black. In fact, it was her performance (along with the existence of Transparent) that really raised the profile of trans people in the US, from what I saw at the time.

Obviously that's just one person and doesn't mean there's anything like proper equality in any sense in the US (or elsewhere), but it makes a mockery of his "LGBTQ+ is just a white thing" stance.

Plus, obviously, the younger generations have a growing understanding of intersectionality, and there's been a concerned effort by some to boost black-and-queer voices, but I wouldn't expect Chapelle to have any idea of that, given his chronic incuriosity about the issue that he spends so much time talking about.

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Re: Dave Chappelle - The Closer
« Reply #74 on: October 08, 2021, 05:21:59 PM »
I think the same goes for Chappelle's Show, because for a comedian at his peak you'd think it would be 50% social commentary and edgy stuff, 50% craft and him using his talent for characters. But it was more like 50% social commentary, 50% absolutely puerile doodie humour
Seems a bit unfair of you to set up some standard for what you want a show to be, then say he failed to meet it.

Re: Dave Chappelle - The Closer
« Reply #75 on: October 08, 2021, 05:34:48 PM »
But I wouldn't want it any other way. Chappelle's Show being that way is what made it feel so immediate, like he didn't care he just did what made him laugh. At the time it was surprising there was so little stand up in it and the monologues were so short. Chappelle's Show being set up as a showcase for the huge talent of Dave Chappelle, but actually being a showcase for shit that makes Dave Chappelle laugh was an enormous part of its appeal if you look at the whole thing and not just the stand out skits like the Niggar Family, Racial Draft, etc.

edit: my point is that Chappelle never being a big "craft" guy in terms of polished material and jokes used to work in his favour, now it doesn't.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2021, 05:52:24 PM by Video Game Fan 2000 »

Re: Dave Chappelle - The Closer
« Reply #76 on: October 08, 2021, 06:33:21 PM »

Re: Dave Chappelle - The Closer
« Reply #77 on: October 08, 2021, 07:33:46 PM »
That black queer people are broadly not represented in the media might be fair (I don't have time to tally things up here, but Ru Paul seems like an obvious counterpoint)

Lil Nas X is massive at the moment, isn't he?
No way Chappelle is aware of DaBaby's comments but not the homophobia aimed at Lil Nas X as a result of those comments.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2021, 07:56:57 PM by RicoMNKN »

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Re: Dave Chappelle - The Closer
« Reply #78 on: October 08, 2021, 07:53:57 PM »
Lil Nas X is massive at the moment, isn't he?
No way Chapelle is aware of DaBaby's comments but not the homophobia aimed at Lil Nas X as a result of those comments.

Chappelle made some weird jokes about Lil Nas X at a show recently https://youtu.be/XvoApEtQERE?t=164

Thankfully he was drunk so he seemed to get distracted before he continued down that road.

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Re: Dave Chappelle - The Closer
« Reply #79 on: October 08, 2021, 08:05:58 PM »
Good call on Lil Nas X. Yeah, he's (despite his name) huge. Can't make out what Chapelle is saying there, other than "he spells gayness 'ganus'", which I suppose is funny because "anus"?

In any case, Chapelle's position on trans people is clearly stupid and indefensible.

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Re: Dave Chappelle - The Closer
« Reply #80 on: October 08, 2021, 08:09:07 PM »
Good call on Lil Nas X. Yeah, he's (despite his name) huge. Can't make out what Chapelle is saying there, other than "he spells gayness 'ganus'", which I suppose is funny because "anus"?

In any case, Chapelle's position on trans people is clearly stupid and indefensible.

"Lil Nas X is America's anus! There's levels to gayness. This [black fellow] spells gayness: G.A.N.U.S.". So, yeah, that's essentially the joke.

It's worth pointing out that one of his best friends and the comic that opens for him everywhere posted this on Instagram https://twitter.com/lilnasx/status/1433532057674665985?lang=en

Re: Dave Chappelle - The Closer
« Reply #81 on: October 08, 2021, 08:59:34 PM »
"he spells gayness 'ganus'"

That's just shite.

Re: Dave Chappelle - The Closer
« Reply #82 on: October 08, 2021, 09:10:57 PM »
That's just shite.

Astoundingly shite. I thought it was going somewhere but no, that was it. Gayness sounds like anus. #9 in Rolling Stone's 50 Best Stand Up Comics of All Time there, folks.

Re: Dave Chappelle - The Closer
« Reply #83 on: October 08, 2021, 09:22:37 PM »
"Lil Nas X is America's anus! There's levels to gayness. This [black fellow] spells gayness: G.A.N.U.S.". So, yeah, that's essentially the joke.

It's worth pointing out that one of his best friends and the comic that opens for him everywhere posted this on Instagram https://twitter.com/lilnasx/status/1433532057674665985?lang=en

I love how gleefully Lil Nas X winds people like Chappelle up. He said something recently along the lines of "every time you tell me to tone it down, I become 10% gayer". I haven't heard enough of his music to have an informed opinion on it (though that video where he grinded his arse into Satan's face was fantastic), but I do want to because he's a great pop personality.

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Re: Dave Chappelle - The Closer
« Reply #84 on: October 08, 2021, 09:40:08 PM »
I love how gleefully Lil Nas X winds people like Chappelle up. He said something recently along the lines of "every time you tell me to tone it down, I become 10% gayer". I haven't heard enough of his music to have an informed opinion on it (though that video where he grinded his arse into Satan's face was fantastic), but I do want to because he's a great pop personality.

He's truly excellent. The music is great, the videos are brilliant, his marketing is unlike any mainstream artist I've ever seen, and he's really funny on social media. Chappelle's generation are left in the dust and it bothers them.

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Re: Dave Chappelle - The Closer
« Reply #85 on: October 08, 2021, 09:44:57 PM »
Lil Nas X did that song with Billy Ray Cyrus and is gay. That's all I know of him. But if he's getting on people's tits, good onnhim.

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Re: Dave Chappelle - The Closer
« Reply #86 on: October 09, 2021, 04:31:20 AM »
Lil Nas X did that song with Billy Ray Cyrus and is gay. That's all I know of him. But if he's getting on people's tits, good onnhim.

i like that song. apart from the bits where billy ray cyrus

Re: Dave Chappelle - The Closer
« Reply #87 on: October 09, 2021, 04:47:44 AM »
Pretty good stuff here from Steve Albini of all people

https://twitter.com/electricalwsop/status/1446488904886980608?s=21

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Re: Dave Chappelle - The Closer
« Reply #88 on: October 09, 2021, 07:59:50 AM »
Yeah Albini absolutely nails it there. Chappelle has become another tedious, complacent, thin-skinned old tosser, punching down at vulnerable minorities with lazy, badly-researched bits. Fuck him.

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Re: Dave Chappelle - The Closer
« Reply #89 on: October 09, 2021, 08:14:36 AM »
Has nice little rant on stage about how Twitter can go fuck itself because it isn't real, *this* is real life... he says while onstage in front of his celebrity friends at an event celebrating him. The fact he thinks that that is real life says everything, really.

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