Dentistry (goodbye savings)

[TrenterPercenter]

I think there might be some misunderstanding as to what an implant is and "fixing a tooth".

if you have a broken tooth you can have a crown put on in it; its putting cap over the tooth; if the root is dying then you can still put a cap over it but in not very long time the tooth and root will decay; the tooth will fall out; the root will then decay further back to your jaw bone and once there if you haven't had it removed yet could start decaying the bone around it.  The implant is when they take the root about and drill a metal prong into your jaw that replaces the root so that a crown can sit on it (its screwed on to it).

Putting a crown on a dying tooth is a temporary fix; you at least need an artificial root; my root canal I had left for 20 years. because I didn't have any nerves in there it never caused me any problems but eventually it succumbed to infection and had to completely be removed (and became quite dangerous because of it with a really nasty infection occurring trapped under a seal fake root with nowhere to go).   Just bear in mind that 20 years from when you are 20 to 40 and 20 years from when you are 40 to 60 are not he same and

[Cloud]

What I had was in phases

When the tooth (well, three of them) met their match with the road about 23 years ago they got a root canal back then but no crowns.  Didn't look pretty, but was all they'd do under the free/cheap cover as a child at the time, and the way the teeth had chipped, crowns would just be cosmetic rather than protective.

Quite a long time later (like 7 years ago) I finally decided to splash out on crowns (£600 each) to look a bit more attractive as a lonely 32 year old.

Now, I guess, one of the 23 year old root canal treatments has failed.

So I think the question now is whether it'll be possible or economical to re-root-canal or if it'll be a case of yanking it out - because, as I think the dentist told me last time (when they seemed to have misread the x-rays), by the time I've paid for another root canal and new crown on a dead and possibly even more decayed tooth, I could be pissing £1200+ down the drain and end up back there again a few months later.  And so the conversation then escalated to "so I'd recommend an implant" (and probably "while we're at it, we'll have to plan for the future of your other front tooth and this little one next to them" which is where it started approaching new car prices)

And I think it was similar with a denture. "Yeah that'll cost you slightly less for now but you'll be back in 5 years paying it again because your mouth changes shape"

It all really comes back to spending... I daren't even put a number because I'll probably sit in the chair with that in my mind as the worst case scenario and get told at least double, because that always happens with me at dentists and garages.   Vs. going the Jimmy Tarbuck route.  Everything comes back round to that binary

[Cloud]

(and became quite dangerous because of it with a really nasty infection occurring trapped under a seal fake root with nowhere to go).

Yeah that's the worry that's preventing me taking the "bury head in sand" route!

At least it seems to have an outlet now (it oozed some more earlier... lovely) and whatever needs to be done will have a ball rolling by Friday morning...

But why do I get the feeling I'll be told "oh, the fact the infection has made it out means that bit of jawbone is fucked and you'll need a graft, those start at £10k..."

[TrenterPercenter]

Your jaw is a bit further down so probably not - its more the problem of the bone getting infected.  The thing is with mouths is they are basically infection ovens that is why once a root get's exposed it is almost certainly going to get infected and once it is infected that is it, it's dead.

[Cloud]

Yeah the roots have been dead since 23 years ago if I remember what the dentist told me accurately

[TrenterPercenter]

Yeah the roots have been dead since 23 years ago if I remember what the dentist told me accurately

So this is more the case of the tooth disintegrating.  I'm not sure there is much you can it will just disintegrate back the fake root which will then eventually turn black.  If there is no root in there though and the canal is holding up then there could be some time before this starts happening.

[Emma Raducanu]

So I went to the dentist for the first time in 15 years and was absolutely shitting it. Dentist checked over all teeth and did a couple of X rays. Despite my genuine concerns and like Cloud, expecting to have to pay potentially thousands for as yet undiagnosed dental problems everything came back fine.

I was incredibly relieved. I can only stress the importance of looking after your teeth. Just fucking brush them twice a day, floss regularly and go to the dentist twice a year. Please

[katzenjammer]

can't recommend enough getting an electric toothbrush if you haven't already. I was having no end of problems with my teeth but since getting a sonicare everything's been fine. Obviously it's a bit difficult to prove with my sample size of one, but since they are only like £30 you might as well try one.

[Johnny Foreigner]

Yes, had an electric Oral B for seven years, used twice a day and still working fine. I am never going back to the primitive type.

[touchingcloth]

The nice thing about electric toothbrushes is that they can also double up for WANKING so I hardly ever put mine down I'm just WANKING and brushing and WANKING and brushing and WANKING and brushing and WANKING and then I plug it in overnight and start all over again the next day.

[TrenterPercenter]

So I went to the dentist for the first time in 15 years and was absolutely shitting it.

Sounds like you needed a gastroenterologist rather than a dentist.

[Dr Rock]

Just fucking brush them twice a day, floss regularly and go to the dentist twice a year. Please

Done this. Lost half my teeth in the last 6 years anyway.

[TrenterPercenter]

Yeah some people just have bad luck with teeth.

Not me mine are great - the only problem I've had is the root canal which was caused by opening a bottle top with my teeth like a nob.

[Glebe]

Had root canal some years ago (also had to have a load of infected shit washed out me gums), deeply uncomfortable and cost a bit. In any case hope fings work out for yah Cloud.

[Cloud]

So I went to the dentist for the first time in 15 years and was absolutely shitting it. Dentist checked over all teeth and did a couple of X rays. Despite my genuine concerns and like Cloud, expecting to have to pay potentially thousands for as yet undiagnosed dental problems everything came back fine.

I was incredibly relieved. I can only stress the importance of looking after your teeth. Just fucking brush them twice a day, floss regularly and go to the dentist twice a year. Please

Absolutely.  And don't cycle down hills at close to 30mph on an icy winter morning (if you do, try not to let your face take the impact when you slip on black ice)

To this day I still struggle to get past the fear of cycling downhill

Would love a time machine to stop that fateful day

[mothman]

I'm due at the dentist next week. I've had possibly a loosened filling since I had to drill into some impossibly hard bathroom tiles and I think it's been shakened loose.

I've had to wait a month (but it's been increasingly fine, so may be OK) but initially I asked for an appointment as soon as possible. I was offered one on a Saturday. Bit random, I thought, but  whatever.

Turn up on the day, check in, and wait. Then they call me up and ask if I'm aware this is a private appointment. No, I say, I'm NHS. They then say I would have been told at the time of booking - I wasn't. They all go into a huddle and try to figure out who made the booking. They can't, so that avenue - saying I was told and that if I break the appointment I'll have to pay - closes for them with an audible CLANG. Off I swan.

So, whatever. Could be worse I guess. Dentist is based at my local supermarket complex and I was going there anyway. No point in complaining, all they'd do is de-register me. Happened to my wife at our last dentist and all she did was complain that a filling hadn't been done very well and needed re-doing.

[PlanktonSideburns]

I hear Gdansk is nice this time of year

(Milquetoast gets up and leaves, leaving his briefcase behind)

[paruses]

So I went to the dentist for the first time in 15 years and was absolutely shitting it. Dentist checked over all teeth and did a couple of X rays. Despite my genuine concerns and like Cloud, expecting to have to pay potentially thousands for as yet undiagnosed dental problems everything came back fine.

I was incredibly relieved. I can only stress the importance of looking after your teeth. Just fucking brush them twice a day, floss regularly and go to the dentist twice a year. Please

I was exactly the same. I have an aqua-pic too as I don't get on with flossing. The rest of me is falling to pieces or expanding like the universe but my teeth are pretty good to the point where I had to have an image done because  of a wisdom tooth and the technician said "ooh, nice teeth" which made me all shy.

The wisdom tooth caused decay to the molar next to it and eventually had to come out. I have a private dental plan not NHS but my dentist said I could pay 2k or so to have it done or he would refer me as an NHS patient (to the same place) but there might be a bit of a wait. I elected not to pay the 2k.

Because of covid and my general luck with paperwork always being lost it took a while but that really was bad luck and me not chasing things. I would recommend asking your dentist if he can refer you as an NHS patient to where  I went (Westbourne Centre in Birmingham). Not sure where you are cloud but if you could work something out even travel and a hotel would be cheaper.

caveat - I have no idea if your particular problem can be referred like my wisdom tooth problem but hope it can. PM if you want any info.

[Cloud]

Cheers. D-day tomorrow morning, dreading it. She's going to want to rinse me for thousands, there's no doubt about that, it's just working out what is really needed, what if anything could be NHS'd etc.  Unfortunately I have a "figure I'd grudgingly accept" in my head, which guarantees the reality will be at least 2x or 3x that :(

[paruses]

I suppose the advantage I had was my work needed a proper max-fac surgeon to do the work rather than a  baraber-dentist. As nice as he is I am sure he would have been happy to fleece me for it if he could.

[Glebe]

Best of luck Cloud.

[Pranet]

First appointment with my new dentist today. Turned out to be an extremely nervous 12 year old. Didn't find anything wrong with my teeth that needed immediate attention so he passes the first test. Hope the same is true for a while not sure I want him let loose with a drill in my mouth quite yet. Good for him to get a bit of practise in on some other bozos first.

[Cloud]

Okay so... (£60 just for a quick poke around and a chat)

Dentist is basically "yeah that proves I was right the first time", the shadows around the tooth are closing in suggesting it's wearing away and there's nothing more she can do.

Options given:

1) Do nothing and hope for the best. There will probably always be that pimple on the gum.  The risk is in it turning into a proper infection with swelling etc which can then get quite nasty.

2) Tooth out and a denture at about £300.  If after a few months I don't get along with the denture then they can try a bridge at around £900 but it's a gamble due to the condition of the neighbouring teeth.

3) Implant £2.5k-3k (IOW 3k)

But I can't get a denture now and implant later as the bone would shrink and need a graft which would complicate it and be mega bucks. And the way their system works is either you opt for the implant route and you get referred for that first before the tooth is even touched, or you opt for the denture route and the tooth is removed.  So it's an either/or that I need to decide on fairly quickly.  I asked if it was possible to get a denture for a few months and if I don't get along with it then opt for an implant later but that was a flat no.

Still don't know what to do!  I don't really want to fork out 3k.  But whether it's worth that to avoid having to pop something in and out for the rest of my life, I don't know.  There's also the embarrassment aspect of you know, 39 isn't quite elderly yet and am single but do sleep with people from time to time. And having to pop my front tooth out... bluh

[IsavedLatin]

Okay so... (£60 just for a quick poke around and a chat)

Dentist is basically "yeah that proves I was right the first time", the shadows around the tooth are closing in suggesting it's wearing away and there's nothing more she can do.

Options given:

1) Do nothing and hope for the best. There will probably always be that pimple on the gum.  The risk is in it turning into a proper infection with swelling etc which can then get quite nasty.

2) Tooth out and a denture at about £300.  If after a few months I don't get along with the denture then they can try a bridge at around £900 but it's a gamble due to the condition of the neighbouring teeth.

3) Implant £2.5k-3k (IOW 3k)

But I can't get a denture now and implant later as the bone would shrink and need a graft which would complicate it and be mega bucks. And the way their system works is either you opt for the implant route and you get referred for that first before the tooth is even touched, or you opt for the denture route and the tooth is removed.  So it's an either/or that I need to decide on fairly quickly.  I asked if it was possible to get a denture for a few months and if I don't get along with it then opt for an implant later but that was a flat no.

Still don't know what to do!  I don't really want to fork out 3k.  But whether it's worth that to avoid having to pop something in and out for the rest of my life, I don't know.  There's also the embarrassment aspect of you know, 39 isn't quite elderly yet and am single but do sleep with people from time to time. And having to pop my front tooth out... bluh

This all sounds shit and brutal, Cloud, but my gut reaction on reading this is, in your shoes, if I could put hands on £3k without selling a kidney, I'd go the implant route for just the reasons you say at the end: you're still young and you're still hoping to fuck someone once in a while (AND it's a front tooth!).

[Pranet]

TBH if I was in your shoes and could pay the £3000 I might well do that as well. Over a life time it might not cost that much more than denture check ups and new new dentures etc, and those fizzy tablets you put in with your dentures overnight. As you said if you have dentures then a bridge that almost comes up to half the cost of implants and there is quite a high chance the bridge wouldn't work.

[paruses]

[...]And the way their system works is [...]

Is it that practice's system and if so is it possible to go to another practice? I am with Denplan and can change practices fairly easily (I know when you need it nothing is easy or as you expect).

[Cloud]

Part of it also is that if something does happen to the other front tooth, or the small one, then it's another £3k.  Vs. probably 400-500 for a 2-tooth denture that then covers both.  But interesting responses so far...
Everyone I talk to IRL are like "fuck that, have you lost your mind even considering it, what's wrong with a denture" (maybe it's a Northern thing), but so far everyone online is saying go for the implant.

Is it that practice's system and if so is it possible to go to another practice? I am with Denplan and can change practices fairly easily (I know when you need it nothing is easy or as you expect).

Not sure on either of those questions really!  I'm just plain old private patient and always been registered with this one.

[paruses]

Part of it also is that if something does happen to the other front tooth, or the small one, then it's another £3k.  Vs. probably 400-500 for a 2-tooth denture that then covers both.  But interesting responses so far...
Everyone I talk to IRL are like "fuck that, have you lost your mind even considering it, what's wrong with a denture" (maybe it's a Northern thing), but so far everyone online is saying go for the implant.

Not sure on either of those questions really!  I'm just plain old private patient and always been registered with this one.

Yea - I realised that Denplan give the illusion of being part of an insurance scheme but I think they mostly take the headache out of the admin for the dentist. I basically spread the cost of being a private patient over a year and get a small discount on stuff I don't use or the occasional procedure I do need. Am just thinking for the cost of a consultation with another practice a second opinion might be profitable.

On the denture / implant front I am with your offline recommendations. Understand what Latin and Pranet are saying but I would go for the denture. I would also counsel against taking my advice on anything.

Have they given you a solid reason an implant can't go ahead after the fact? Surely people who lost teeth as kids or young adults then decide to have them done. I don't want to muddy the waters it's just something that stands out to me.

[Cloud]

Yeah I don't really know why she was saying that the implant option is gone if I go for a denture.  The cynic in me says it's to put pressure on me to pick the expensive option "while I can" - after last time I didn't really trust that dentist as much as I could throw her to be honest, and it's only that this gum boil having appeared right on the tooth she was concerned about that has vindicated her a little in my mind.  But it's still a bit odd.

I think most dentists have an initial consultation of £100-120 or so, but it could be worth asking for a second opinion I guess.

[TrenterPercenter]

Yeah the later implant problems sound sus.  I don't think having a denture would put me off sleeping with someone I would keep this strictly in the realm of your comfort (which for me feels like spending the 3k on your tooth so it is done and will make the rest of your teeth last better.