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Dentistry (goodbye savings)

Started by Cloud, October 10, 2021, 09:01:56 PM

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jamiefairlie

Quote from: Cloud on October 15, 2021, 02:43:34 PM
Yeah I don't really know why she was saying that the implant option is gone if I go for a denture.  The cynic in me says it's to put pressure on me to pick the expensive option "while I can" - after last time I didn't really trust that dentist as much as I could throw her to be honest, and it's only that this gum boil having appeared right on the tooth she was concerned about that has vindicated her a little in my mind.  But it's still a bit odd.

I think most dentists have an initial consultation of £100-120 or so, but it could be worth asking for a second opinion I guess.

There's an issue with bone reabsorption over time if you don't get the implant. After your tooth is pulled, you lose bone structure there as it's not needed, meaning there may not be enough to support an implant. It's possible to do bone grafts but more expensive and more pain, healing, etc

Cloud

I think I'm leaning towards the consensus of getting the implant.  Some people I know (mostly over 60s like my parents) think it's insane, but everyone else I know seems to think it's best to get the best you can afford etc.

HUGE dent out of my paltry savings and quite frustrating, but I suppose when you look at the cost over a lifetime it's not the worst.  I've made worse 4 figure financial decisions (hello MacBook Pro with shitty keyboard)

Something to mull over the weekend.

TrenterPercenter

is there a way of spreading the cost much nicer to think about it as £20 (4 pints) a week for the next 3 years.

Cloud

Almost 6 pints where I am, but that is a good way of thinking about it.  They do have finance options, but also I have it ingrained from MSE to spend savings before paying finance.  Though if they can do a few years at 0% it's tempting as it'd force me to spend less.

jamiefairlie

Quote from: Cloud on October 15, 2021, 04:18:55 PM
Almost 6 pints where I am, but that is a good way of thinking about it.  They do have finance options, but also I have it ingrained from MSE to spend savings before paying finance.  Though if they can do a few years at 0% it's tempting as it'd force me to spend less.

Always take 0% financing if you can get it.

paruses

Quote from: jamiefairlie on October 15, 2021, 03:43:43 PM
There's an issue with bone reabsorption over time if you don't get the implant. After your tooth is pulled, you lose bone structure there as it's not needed, meaning there may not be enough to support an implant. It's possible to do bone grafts but more expensive and more pain, healing, etc

I see. That's fair enough then. Hopefully I won't have to read the words "bone graft" for quite  a while now the matter's been cleared up.

Reading this and seeming to be very much in a minority for the denture I've realised I come from a line community that viewed not only cosmetic dentistry as a luxury but any dentistry.

I am in favour of 0% financing though. That's a good idea if you have the financial willpower not to spunk the money in the meantime.

Dex Sawash

CaB told me recently that a missing molar was fine

Cloud

Yeah slightly offtopic but I'm seeing the benefit of things like 0% finance now. I've often been very shy of debt (parental history) and preferred to save up for things, but it does require a fair bit of financial discipline to keep saving money up instead of spunking it on tech / eating and drinking out / weekends away etc.  If I pay it from savings, I'll probably end up feeling that the money is just "written off" rather than tightening the belt a bit to catch up.  Finance forces the latter.

Cloud

So I finally said to the dentist, okay, let's do the implant. As this bump is not swollen but it's looking redder and my tooth is feeling looser so really it needs to come out one way or another soon.

Given a choice of 2 places they'll refer me to, one is local, £130 consultation fee, one further afield £75 consultation fee.  No we don't know their implant prices but they're probably about the same.  Choose.

Under pressure I picked the easier local one in the hopes that they just have a high consultation fee and not everything else is twice the price. But it just keeps on feeling like I'm being given ultimatums and routes set in stone.  I'm hoping when they call to arrange the consultation I can squeeze an estimate out of them beforehand. I found the more distant place's price list and after extraction it'll add up to 3k. What I don't really want from the local one is "we'll tell you later" and then "that'll be 6k"

Part of me is getting tempted to sack it off until it gets a proper infection, get a nice neutral NHS dentist as an emergency, and get some pointers from there.  I think my present dentist is probably mostly after some referral cash.

Surely I can even just go somewhere without a referral

TrenterPercenter

I'm sorry at this point I don't know how it works.  absolutely you should be getting a ball park figure but they will just lift from the what you know already about 3k and will say the consultation is to understand how much work will actually need doing.  It's going to be about 2-3 grand so I consultation fee is negligible imo.

I think you've made the right choice; got me thinking about my missing tooth now (which is completely out of sight and not really an issue with eating etc..but I suppose it is one less tooth to take the slack of wear and tear.

If it was a front one though I would get it done no questions; that tooth you've got now is going to cause problems and will fall out.  So it's just denturing or implant and I think for your age and the fact you have the cash it is worth doing; this is why you have savings!

Cloud

As mentioned in the living with parents thread I also will be wiping out any hope of changing that situation most likely, though admittedly it's never been a priority.

Long as it is 3k max fair enough, if they're suggesting something mad like 4 without good reason then I might see if it's possible to get re-referred to the further-afield one

ZoyzaSorris

100% go with implant. I had an incisor smashed up and the NHS dentist fucked up the root so much I eventually had to replace the whole tooth. I then had to wear a denture for a while and it was a right pain in the arse. Eventually managed to get an implant partially on 0% finance , partially up front and it was absolutely worth it. To all intents and purposes like having my tooth back.

monkfromhavana

Quote from: ZoyzaSorris on October 22, 2021, 07:09:46 AM
100% go with implant. I had an incisor smashed up and the NHS dentist fucked up the root so much I eventually had to replace the whole tooth. I then had to wear a denture for a while and it was a right pain in the arse. Eventually managed to get an implant partially on 0% finance , partially up front and it was absolutely worth it. To all intents and purposes like having my tooth back.

How much does getting an implant done hurt? Hearing descriptions of it (drilling into gum, potential bone graft, screwing implant in) make it sound horrible.

ZoyzaSorris

Yeah it's not fun as such. I'm not going to lie to you and pretend otherwise!

Pranet

One thing about this thread. I was thinking about getting back into cycling. It is giving me second thoughts.

jamiefairlie

Quote from: monkfromhavana on October 22, 2021, 08:13:00 AM
How much does getting an implant done hurt? Hearing descriptions of it (drilling into gum, potential bone graft, screwing implant in) make it sound horrible.

The actual procedure is all under good anaesthetic so you feel nothing. The recovery is sore but you'd be on painkillers so it's ok.

ZoyzaSorris

I wouldn't say you'll definitely feel nothing - even with local anaesthetic having a hole drilled in your bone is still a weird uncomfortable physical experience. Whole thing wasn't too bad though. And completely worth it. Would never recommend anything else provided you can afford it. Did kind of clean my out but I wouldn't change a thing.

TrenterPercenter

Seems like if you've got the money spending it on your teeth, so you know you can eat and stuff, should be pretty high up on the list of things to spend it on.

Dr Rock

I've now got a denture with the new front tooth. Looks perfect, but it's a bit strange having the plate in my mouth. I think I''m going to have an implant, once the gums settle down. Though it may not be in Muswell Hill, I noticed the same thing in my old dentists in Hendon was a few hundred pound cheaper, so shop around as much as you can.

touchingcloth

Quote from: monkfromhavana on October 22, 2021, 08:13:00 AM
How much does getting an implant done hurt? Hearing descriptions of it (drilling into gum, potential bone graft, screwing implant in) make it sound horrible.

I just swapped out the whole jaw, never looked back.

Pavlov`s Dog`s Dad`s Dead


Cloud

So early last week I phoned to agree to the implant and get referred to the local place and haven't heard a damn thing since.  Meanwhile the gum boil continues to ooze, the tooth has a visible amount of movement if I tap on it and it hurts if I try to have a sandwich without sort of shoving it into one side and chewing at it with the molars.

Maybe it's her way of helping me to save money, just don't get around to doing the referral while my tooth falls out, saving £150-500 in extraction costs?  It's the possible complications I'm afraid of.

Or maybe a way to make more money when the infection spreads to other teeth...

Guess I should probably call them. I hate chasing people.

Replies From View

Quote from: Cloud on October 10, 2021, 09:49:38 PM
a fairly aggressive guy called tooth something

tooth something needs his own thread

TrenterPercenter


Mobbd

#114
I've read this whole thread now and I wish you all the best, Cloud. Any updates for us? I for one am worried about your infection. This is probably very fucking basic, but you've rinced the fuck out of your mouth with corsodyl mouthwash, right? Like 3 times a day for a week?

The first time I had a peridontal gum abscess, the dentist injected an antibiotic that shriveled the abscess in a most satisfying way. Worth asking for. Can't have been expensive because I've never paid big on dentistry. I'd guess maybe £30. If I recall rightly, I called in pain and framed it as an emergency (which, really it was). The second time, the dentist just prescribed corsodyl (free because I live in Scotland but you can get it in the pharmacy with no prescription for about £3). The corsodyl took a week to kill it, but it went.

What made me read the whole thread was my own baddish but not-yet-urgent dental bad news and I was surprised by the expense and possible grifting/scamming that would follow. I broke a back tooth last week. Never broke a tooth before. It thankfully doesn't really hurt in this case. Saw a dentist (my usual practice but a new guy, free consultation) who said it had collapsed around a big old filling. But he also said it would cost £600 for a crown, to which I said "What?! No. NO" involuntarily. Haha.

He then gave me two shittier alternative options for £150 a pop but they are both pretty shitty and expensive imho for what they are. One is "a big filling" to wrap around what remains of the tooth, the other is a metal NHS crown, which he says would lead to the loss of neighbouring healthy tooth matter to fit it in. There are other NHS options on the price list at their website including a ceramic cap but none of them was offered to me on the day.

ANYWAY, I already had suspicions about this dentist. He had told my wife that she was on the brink of losing all of her teeth and would need serious work. My wife is from Canada and, until now, has impressed every UK dentist with her amazing gnashers. She can take bad news, but I don't see how she could go from 10/10 to 2/10 in two years. I smell shite!

This dental practice was taken over in some way by Bupa back in about 2018. We were all sent letters to say that we were still NHS patients and that nothing would change. Fast forward to late 2020 when we could see the hygeinist for the first time in the pandemic. I was told it would cost £50 instead of the usual price (£11 if memory serves). I agreed in a confused sort of way. It sounded like a temporary measure and, since I liked my hygeinist, I didn't begrudge her the extra money after a period of not working. Only it turned out not to be my usual hygienist, which I thought was odd. Fast-forward again to mid-2021 and another hygeinist appointment. I check on the phone that "it's not going to be £50 again is it?" to be told it is still £50 and that it's a PPE charge. I smell shite again! Long story short, we've been moved quietly into private practice. How is that legal? Especially given that they assured us, unprompted, that this wouldn't happen.

My wife and I both have appointments now with a different dental practice in December. I just hope my partially-crumbled tooth lasts until then.

All of this has got me thinking about dental insurance. I don't have great gums and I fear toothfall and the associated costs. It costs over a grand to get a single implant and I find it plausible that one day I'll need multiple. But all the plans I can see are for trifling amounts of money. "Up to £800 claim per person per year" for even a really expensive premium[nb]https://www.simplyhealth.co.uk/health-plans/dental-plan[/nb]. £800 is barely more than a single crown if my current guy is anything to go by! And nowhere near enough for a single implant.

What is going on with UK dentists, folks? It hasn't always been this way, has it? I don't think I ever paid more than £40 for anything before the pandemic.

touchingcloth

I've started getting my dentistry done by Tooth Bae. He's like the normal dentists except he extracts the molars with his elbows. His costs are about the same.

Mobbd

Quote from: Mobbd on November 01, 2021, 02:24:42 PM
All of this has got me thinking about dental insurance. I don't have great gums and I fear toothfall and the associated costs. It costs over a grand to get a single implant and I find it plausible that one day I'll need multiple. But all the plans I can see are for trifling amounts of money. "Up to £800 claim per person per year" for even a really expensive premium[nb]https://www.simplyhealth.co.uk/health-plans/dental-plan[/nb]. £800 is barely more than a single crown if my current guy is anything to go by! And nowhere near enough for a single implant.

To clarify what I mean here: if I ever really have to pay £500 to £800 for essential dental work, I would grudgingly pay it at the time. It's a lot of money for dental work (or apparently not) but it's not an unfindable sum in an emergency. No need to get involved in a rip-off Christmas stamp club for that.

What I fear (and what would tempt me into a dental insurance plan) is multiple-thousands-of-quid to replace lost front teeth some day.

Surely most people would feel similarly, no? Let me know if I'm missing something/am talking bollocks/if you have a good dental plan you could share so that poor fuckers like me and Cloud can worry a bit less about future gob woe.

Zetetic

Quote from: Mobbd on November 01, 2021, 02:24:42 PM
I check on the phone that "it's not going to be £50 again is it?" to be told it is still £50 and that it's a PPE charge. I smell shite again! Long story short, we've been moved quietly into private practice. How is that legal? Especially given that they assured us, unprompted, that this wouldn't happen.
I suspect there's a decent chance that they just shoved a PPE charge on top of the NHS charge. This isn't legal in Wales or England, and I believe it wasn't legal in Scotland.

Alternatively, they might have taken the view that - while you were registered as an NHS patient and eligible for NHS appointments - they were unable to actually provide any NHS appointments (due to a lack of NHS Scotland-supplied PPE) and so offered you a private appointment (without really being clear about this). It's not really a matter of "moving" you "into private practice", but that they can offer you access to ring-fenced private-only capacity even while you're on their books as an NHS patient. Yes, this is not good.

This two-tier setup has been a mess since forever, as far as I know, across all of the bits of the UK.

Mobbd

#118
Quote from: Zetetic on November 01, 2021, 02:45:39 PM
I suspect there's a decent chance that they just shoved a PPE charge on top of the NHS charge. This isn't legal in Wales or England, and I believe it wasn't legal in Scotland.

I abbreviated the story because it was already a long loony rant. I looked into it and £5 is for PPE and £45 is for private hygienist fee. I wasn't told any of this the first time I went or the second time when I asked about it. I queried it more thoroughly when they left a mysterious £45 hygienist charge (marked as paid) on the treatment plan explaining the various tooth repair options. I said, "I have definitely paid that that, haven't I? And it was actually £50?" which is when they clarified what I'd paid for. It was with a literal shrug and something about the NHS option not being offered since "about 2018" (half-true; I think it was 2019 and I only found out after the place was closed for 9 months or whatever it was for the pandemic; the only communication to us in 2018 being how we would experience no change in service despite all the Bupa logos going up) and how NHS hygeinist appointments could only be administered by a dentist (though this had never been the case before in my experience) and therefore wasn't a cost-effective use of time or something.

Quote from: Zetetic on November 01, 2021, 02:45:39 PM
Alternatively, they might have taken the view that - while you were registered as an NHS patient and eligible for NHS appointments - they were unable to actually provide any NHS appointments (due to a lack of NHS Scotland-supplied PPE) and so offered you a private appointment (without really being clear about this). It's not really a matter of "moving" you "into private practice", but that they can offer you access to ring-fenced private-only capacity even while you're on their books as an NHS patient. Yes, this is not good.

This two-tier setup has been a mess since forever, as far as I know, across all of the bits of the UK.

They should say this though, shouldn't they? Surely? I don't see the difference between "quietly moving us into private practice" and "offering access to ring-fenced private-only capacity even while we're on their books as NHS patients" without telling us. That is literally the same thing.

And even if they have to pay for their own PPE, we were only talking about disposable rubber gloves and a visor (if my 2020 hygeinist appointment is anything to go by). And they didn't even use a visor when I had my broken tooth consultation this time; it was all back to normal-looking old school dental PPE. Just normal.

Mobbd

I don't *think* I'm being a gammon in all this, even as I hear myself complaining. I live in a not-very-well-off area and going from £11 to £50 for treatment should be considered noteworthy, I think. If they have a thousand (more?) patients on their books, that's a lot of sudden dosh going into their practice, largely from wee grannies and jobless youths.