I hear you're an IRA supporter now, Nigel Farage.

[Cuellar]

It's a bit harder to sustain over here alright.

Irexiteer: "What has the EU done for Ireland?"
Anyone with a functioning brain stem: "Well, do you see that road over there?"

Tell that to Cornwall and Wales

[Replies From View]

Tell that to Cornwall and Wales

Another biopic starting Steve Coogan

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

It's a bit harder to sustain over here alright.

Irexiteer: "What has the EU done for Ireland?"
Anyone with a functioning brain stem: "Well, do you see that road over there?"

Farmers look up from counting their subsidies. "Ha'?"

[Paul Calf]

Yeah, assuming the rational arguments will win is definitely the right strategy.

[Wonderful Butternut]

Yeah, assuming the rational arguments will win is definitely the right strategy.

We're not as stupid as the British.

We're pretty stupid, but not 'vote for economic suicide and elect Boris Johnson' stupid. At least not at the moment. I suppose things could change.

[Paul Calf]

We're not as stupid as the British.

Keep telling yourself that. It'll be fine. Ireland has never in the past been swayed by far-right demagogues after all...

[Paul Calf]

We're not as stupid as the Americans/Hungarians/Polish/Indians/Brazilians.

This is fine.

[bgmnts]

What have the Romans EU ever done for us?

[Wonderful Butternut]

Keep telling yourself that. It'll be fine. Ireland has never in the past been swayed by far-right demagogues after all...

When? In the 50s? Not gonna lie, the inability to truly separate the Catholic Church from the running of the state until the 80s, arguably the 90s, and we're still not done sorting out all the skeletons from that is a big blight on the modern history of the country. Far right demagogues though? I can only think of McQuaid, who wasn't a politician or elected official, and at a stretch deV, with all his hairshirt & comley maiden nonsense. Am I mentally skipping over someone? Seriously?

But even if I was, in terms current day politics, the hard right in the Irish political system at the moment is nearly non existent. Fine Gael are the most right wing party with actual representation in the Dail (and bear in mind, we use PR, so it's far, far easier for small and fringe parties to get in than in the UK), and whilst I despise them, they're not really hard right by even a massive stretch of the definition, and could really only be described as barely right wing on economic policy and not at all on social policy. The PDs, originally a splinter from Fianna Fail, bigged up their right wing credentials in the mid 2000s with their "Left-wing government? No thanks!" slogan and were promptly obliterated by the electorate and folded. Renua split off from Fine Gael over the abortion issue and tried to set themselves up as a traditional (ie. right wing) voice in Irish politics. Obliterated by the electorate. Aontu (split from Sinn Fein over abortion) aren't particularly right wing will probably last 2 more elections tops. And The National Party and Irish Freedom Party received about 10,000 votes between them in the last election. Out of 2.2 million votes cast. That's 10,000 people who are utter fuck heads, but I don't see it as the beginning of a massive sweep towards leaving the EU.

There was always a degree of Euroscepticism in the UK, well before Brexit. It's been much more fringe position over here. And the horrific mess that the UK are making of it has made it even less palatable.

Sometimes actual reality trumps "Well that's what we thought!!! Thisisfine.jpg etc."

And if you are in fact Irish and know all this, I apologise for the lecture, but your comments suggest that you're not.

[bgmnts]

Fingers crossed the Irish aren't as thick as us in terms of biting off the hand that feed you (i.e wales and Cornwall and a good portion or England).

But then does Great Britain have the same poisonous influence on Ireland as England has on Wales?

Scotland avoids this but I wonder if that's down to having a much better border.

[Wonderful Butternut]

If a serious anti-EU push comes from anywhere in Ireland in the next 20 years, I think it'll be if the Irish Farmers' Association get sufficiently vexxed about the Common Agricultural Policy to form a political party. Maybe muck in with some of the Rural Independents Group to create a big-tent "rural issues" party.[nb]Although having clowns like the Healy-Raes and Matty McGrath in there would be just as like to damage them outside those TDs own constituencies as anything else[/nb] But I even have doubts about the effectiveness of that cos I think they'll have zero traction in urban areas, especially Dublin, which elects over a quarter of the Dail (not including the commuter belt), and going straight for 'let's get out of the EU' off the bat would probably kill any widespread appeal they have.

It certainly won't be from Farage visiting to try and prop up his equivalents over here because generally those sort of people achieve fuck all in the Irish political system. The Irexit Freedom guy (CBA googling his name) got his ass handed to him in a debate with Eamonn Dunphy, a drunken retired soccer pundit.

EDIT: Above all though, I think the biggest obstacle to Irexit is Brexit. Aside from the fact that it's currently going badly and a complete 180 will be needed on that, leaving the EU is now mentally being associated with the particularly toxic form of right wing English and British Nationalism, and over here, with the DUP too. I just don't think there's any possibility of it washing in Ireland as a result.

[Buelligan]

I think one of the things that made Brexit possible was the fact that there is a sizeable tranche of the British population (right and left) who actually believe somewhere deep down inside that, by dint of being British (English) they're better[nb]naturally equipped and destined to be in charge of the world[/nb] than everyone else.  They should've been in charge of the EU, they can't take rules or orders from lower orders[nb]people who are not them[/nb] and nothing bad can happen to them as a nation, whatever arseholery they get up to, because of who they are.  I don't think there are many dickheads like that in Ireland.

There, I've said it.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

There aren't that many dickheads but only because of a smaller population. Their dickheads have different interests they're dickheads about.

by dint of being British (English) they're better[1] than everyone else

It's also about the idea that there is pride and dignity in self-governance and self-control, much like the Nationalist sentiment elsewhere. The EU referendum was a vehicle in which the above chauvinism and yet also a legitimate desire for self-determination and greater accountability was expressed. It was not intended to and was incapable of delivering both, hence the tragic mess we are in.

[Buelligan]

It's not like nationalist sentiment elsewhere.  It really isn't.

The Irish are not filled with the belief that they, rightly, should be running what goes on in Belgium or Lithuania.  Irish nationalists want to control and run their own country, they don't believe they should be at the top table in any and all things domestic and international.

[Wonderful Butternut]

I think one of the things that made Brexit possible was the fact that there is a sizeable tranche of the British population (right and left) who actually believe somewhere deep down inside that, by dint of being British (English) they're better[nb]naturally equipped and destined to be in charge of the world[/nb] than everyone else.  They should've been in charge of the EU, they can't take rules or orders from lower orders[nb]people who are not them[/nb] and nothing bad can happen to them as a nation, whatever arseholery they get up to, because of who they are.  I don't think there are many dickheads like that in Ireland.

To be fair on that theory, it would be somewhat hard for the Irish to sustain a superior, "we're the best and should run the world" attitude (although I do try), when we were effectively a conquered country from the Tudor Reconquest in the 1500 & 1600s until 1922, never had our own Empire and didn't take part in watching Russia win winning World War II.

[Buelligan]

Heheh, I know. 

[Glebe]

CAPTAIN PLANET TACKLES SECTARIANISM IN BELFAST VIA CARTOON.

Incredible.

[bgmnts]

CAPTAIN PLANET TACKLES SECTARIANISM IN BELFAST VIA CARTOON.

Incredible.

Beautiful.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

It's not like nationalist sentiment elsewhere.  It really isn't.

You aren't even trying to comprehend my post if that's what you've got.

[Buelligan]

You cut away most of my post, so no, it's not, is it?

Where are you in the trying to comprehend the posts of others stakes?

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

You aren't even trying to comprehend my post if that's what you've got.

Nationalism takes on a different character in former colonies than in former colonial powers. The UK has a "glorious past" wherein it ruled the world and surely that played into how people thought Brexit would go - why, the UK has all the Commonwealth to trade with, plus America, what do we need the EU for?

Ireland has a past where "THE FUCKING BRITS DID THIS, THEY HELD US DOWN AND HELD US BACK, WE HATE BRITAIN AND ALL WHO SAIL IN HER". We have no non-EU allies who would do trade with us over the UK. Irexit will never happen, because economically the country would be fucked beyond saving. The people in power know that, and most of the public know that.

[Kankurette]

You Fenian Prod!

[Famous Mortimer]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_European_Constitution_referendum

Unlike Britain, though, the Irish leaders just forced them to vote again until they got the result they wanted.

[Buelligan]

What bearing does that have on whether British (English) exceptionalism exists?

[Famous Mortimer]

What bearing does that have on whether British (English) exceptionalism exists?

If that question was directed at me, I was more replying to bgmnts who said "Fingers crossed the Irish aren't as thick as us in terms of biting off the hand that feed you".

[Buelligan]

I know you believe that Brexit was a good thing, although, right now, it doesn't look like it was.  But whether or not you think the Irish government was correct there, I think you'd have an extremely difficult time arguing that Ireland would be better off out of the EU.

[itsfredtitmus]

Arsebandits

[peanutbutter]

Ireland's whole thing on the international stage is being a massive tax haven that serves as a gateway into the EU, it'd be hard to see how any significant anti-EU sentiment could be drummed up. Maybe if they made Ireland tax them then like a decade or two later everything bad that happened since could be pinned on the EU for crippling international investment

[Glebe]

Arsebandits

Close thread!

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

Ireland's whole thing on the international stage is being a massive tax haven that serves as a gateway into the EU, it'd be hard to see how any significant anti-EU sentiment could be drummed up. Maybe if they made Ireland tax them then like a decade or two later everything bad that happened since could be pinned on the EU for crippling international investment

Possibly, but the question would remain - who would we trade with outside of the EU, if we left? The UK, probably, just because of proximity, but who else? Do we even have anything to offer that other countries couldn't get for cheaper elsewhere?

Since the last politicians to actually spill blood for Ireland died (in the Republic at any rate), the people running the country have been all about that delicious, delicious money. They won't do anything that'll risk that. And there just aren't enough immigints to stoke the hate necessary to use that as a platform on which to run. If we were located closer to the Mediterranean, then maybe.