Alec Baldwin kills crew member, wounds another.

[Ferris]

They're 9mm or at most .45acp, you wouldn't break anything.

As someone who used to do a lot of 9mm pistol shooting, the recoil is equivalent to using a garden hose (and that was with a compact frame pistol - a full frame glock 17 would probably lessen the recoil because it's slightly heavier).

[Noodle Lizard]

For sheer fire and forget stopping power, get a couple of Uzis.

The recoil after the first shot would have you firing at the ceiling. Those things are ridiculous.

[famethrowa]

Serious answer: You can get the whole 'field to table' experience. Shoot it, gut it, butcher it, cook it, eat it, shit it.

You get to shit on the table??

[Goldentony]

what about uzis with those bits of scaffold on for under your arm

[mothman]

Only 9mm SMG I ever fired was the Sterling (L2A3) and that wasn't single-handed and only on semi-auto, so I couldn't say. The MoD police carry H&K MP7s which are similar to Uzis, if I get the chance I'll ask one of them!

[buzby]

The recoil after the first shot would have you firing at the ceiling. Those things are ridiculous.

The famous saying about the accuracy of an Uzi on full auto is that they are only suitable for a gunfight inside a telephone box, particularly if you try to fire them single handed as a pistol. They were designed as a compact, close quarter weapon and although they have 100m and 200m sights, even military and law enforcement personnel trained in their use wouldn't expect to accurately hit anything further than 50 metres, and that's using it as a carbine with the stock extended and foregrip.

Only 9mm SMG I ever fired was the Sterling (L2A3) and that wasn't single-handed and only on semi-auto, so I couldn't say. The MoD police carry H&K MP7s which are similar to Uzis, if I get the chance I'll ask one of them!

It might look similar to an Uzi, but the MP7 is a gas piston-operated hammer fired locking bolt design, scaled down from the G36/HK416 system so is totally different to shoot than a simple blowback SMG like a Sterling or Uzi as it doesn't have the large reciprocating mass of the bolt required in a blowback design. As well as not having a heavy blowback bolt, the frame is polymer instead of steel too so they are only a fraction of the weight. It also uses bespoke 4.6x30mm high velocity AP amminition, that has much lower recoil than normal 9x19mm. Like the MP5s that it replaced, for the MoD Police contract they were also modified to fire in single shot semi-auto only (the full auto sear was removed from the trigger group). Ian McCollum has an informative video demonstrating it's handing.

[H-O-W-L]

The MP7 was designed as a supercompact close quarters PDW (Personal Defense Weapon), effectively a "fuck fuck get away from me" weapon. The fact you can fold the foregrip and fit it into a suitably sized hip or on-vest holster was part of this. As a result it's much more controllable than say, the Micro Uzi or Mini Uzi variants, which were similarly designed to be PDWs before the PDW concept was really a thing. The difference is that these are down-scales of a weapon previously meant to be a full scale quasi-carbine SMG, rather than something designed from the ground up to be controllable and reliable.

Everything I've heard about the MP7 is that it excels in the PDW class though, so close quarters, indoor fighting. This is why the MoD use them, no doubt. Though I do know that most armed forces in the UK now use the UMP-45 too, as well as some units still using MP5s and the G36 being the go-to rifle for non-military armed forces. We have a real love for H&K weapons here -- it's why I'm baffled we've yet to introduce the G36 into the armed forces outside of special units.

[Goldentony]

the uzi in pulp fiction with the fuck off big silencer is the funniest film gun. absolutely fucking massive, bruce willis annihilates john travolta with it. imagine a world where a film came out where john travolta has a shite, and gets torn up with an uzi by bruce willis. it happened, these are not dreams, people, these are things

[Chedney Honks]

Lot of bullshit here about uzi. One in each hand, just start spraying. Aim for the feet, draw a line up the trunk and bisect a guy.

[Goldentony]

seconds man

[Chedney Honks]

If you visualise the gun equivalent of an electric meat carving knife, that.

[H-O-W-L]

the uzi in pulp fiction with the fuck off big silencer is the funniest film gun. absolutely fucking massive, bruce willis annihilates john travolta with it. imagine a world where a film came out where john travolta has a shite, and gets torn up with an uzi by bruce willis. it happened, these are not dreams, people, these are things

That's a MAC-10 with the (as you said, fuck off big) Sionics suppressor that was custom-made for it and often sold with it to law enforcement and military that had the right to buy it.




Funny story, the Sionics suppressor was build specifically to make the MAC-10 more controllable and give users (with gloves) a suitable handhold because the gun was fucking uncontrollable in full auto, much like the Uzi. Later models added a strap dangling from the front sling ring just under the barrel. Very popular with special forces in Grenada and Vietnam IIRC. And, despite how fillums and gayms make it seem, a MAC-10 with a silencer is still deafeningly loud in close quarters -- the sound might just travel between two, three houses as opposed to the entire neighbourhood. Most silencers/suppressors are still loud as fuck, and one being fired still sounds like someone dropping a 3,000 page encyclopaedia (or your mum's magnum size butt plug) right behind you on a cast marble floor in a dusty, echoey library inhabited only by withered old frigid skeletal librarians (your mum) who make nae sound.

The real rub of suppressors is that they massively reduce the higher frequencies of gunshots, meaning they're harder to distinguish in very noisy environments (especially with higher frequencies around them, IE a busy loading yard or a battle or the like) but if you're going all Agent 47 or John Wick walking up behind someone in a crowded area with no real noise disruptions and putting six rounds in them through a suppressor everyone in the immediate area is still going to go "WHAT THE FUCK WAS THAT SERIES OF SEQUENTIAL BANG SOUNDS?" -- Case in point, several mob hits that were performed with suppressors still lead to neighbours calling the police because of loud thud sounds next door. It's why most mob hits don't use suppressors; they're not that effective, annoying to get for civilians and using them in crimes is More Illegal^tm than using just a normal gun, sort of like how wearing body armor during a felony in New York gets you worse jailtime.

If you were to use one in a large city area then MAYBE it won't be recognized as a gunshot, but it would 100% be recognized as "STRANGE BANG SOUND?".

If you visualise the gun equivalent of an electric meat carving knife, that.

That'd be something more like yer MG-42 honestly. The gun so fast that its users hate it.

[buzby]

Everything I've heard about the MP7 is that it excels in the PDW class though, so close quarters, indoor fighting. This is why the MoD use them, no doubt.

The MP7 was designed to an 80s NATO requirement for a PDW that could penetrate soft body armour, as they had heard that Soviet forces had started to issue it to all troops (the FN P90 was the other contender for the contract). Ultimately neither weapon ended up being adopted by NATO. Instead, both weapons were subsequently marketed for use by special forces and police services.

The MoD Police bought them as a 'jack of all trades' single weapon  to replace their MP5s, Browning Hi Power pistols and SA80 rifles, as a cost saving measure to reduce the number of weapons it had to support and train for. The ammunition's body armour-piercing capability and low chance of over-penetration were also factors in it's selection. The majority of the ModPlod's  duties are guarding the perimeter of MoD sites and nuclear installations, which doesn't really involve much in the way of indoor or close quarter situations.

We have a real love for H&K weapons here -- it's why I'm baffled we've yet to introduce the G36 into the armed forces outside of special units.

Most of the reason why H&K are looked on favourably by the UK's procurement agencies are due to the MP5, which was first adopted by the SAS and UK police forces in 1977 as a replacement for the Sterling SMG. It's 'starring role' in SAS's assault on the the Iranian Embassy subsequently helped sales to other UK police forces and special forces and police agencies worldwide.

H&K were later brought in to sort out the disaster that was the SA80 in 1999 after all it's problems had been exposed in the first Gulf War.. BAe owned both Royal Ordnance, the original manufacturers of the SA80, and H&K at the time, hence why they were chosen. They initially produced the A2 update kits to sort out it's major flaws and latterly taking over full production of the rifle from Enfield. These positive customer experiences are what solidffied their reputation with the UK's military and police procurement agencies.

The G36 has a bad reputation with it's primary customer due to it's well-publicised overheating issues (In Germany it's regarded with the same distain the original SA80A1 was here). It's being phased out by the Bundeswehr as their primary rifle in favour of the HK416A6, so the UK (or anyone else) is unlikely to adopt the G36 at this stage in it's life, especially as H&K are currently updating the UK's stock of SA80s to the A3 standard. The HK416 is also being adopted by the French to replace the FAMAS.

[H-O-W-L]

Much like crabs, everything evolves into an AR-15 or derivative/lookalike eventually.

[buzby]

Much like crabs, everything evolves into an AR-15 or derivative/lookalike eventually.

The HK416 looks like an AR15/M4 because that was one of it's design requirements from the US special forces. They wanted something that looked and felt like the M4 carbines they were using (and could take all the same bolt-on accessories), and had the reliability and compactness of their MP5s but with more stopping power than the MP5's 9mm cartridge

It's basically the M4's receiver and action modified to use the G36's gas piston system to cycle the bolt rather than the M4's direct gas inpingement system, so it doesn't suffer from the M4's malfunction issues due to combustion products fouling the bolt. Having an AR-style aluminium receiver instead of polymer means it also doesn't suffer the loss of accuracy due to overheating issues that the G36 does.

The SAS & SBS had a similar requirement and brielfy adopted the Fleming HK51, a third-party cut-down 7.62mm G3 rifle fitted with MP5 furniture, but it didn't last long as it was far too overpowered to be practical in short barrel form and was replaced with the HK53, which is a 5.56mm HK33 rifle cut down to MP5 size.

[Butchers Blind]

Should I be worried that quite a few CaB members know a fair bit about guns?

[Twit 2]

I think they mostly know how to copy stuff off Wikipedia.

[Chollis]

Guys if you're gonna post in this thread please make sure you're at least on nodding terms with modern ballistics.

[touchingcloth]

As Jonno let rip with the stolen Kalashnikov, and Squarehead fired off a round of monkey puzzler, I looked down at the towel-head I'd just slotted. I didn't stop to think about it long; we all get slotted sometime.

[Butchers Blind]

I think they mostly know how to copy stuff off Wikipedia.

That's ok then, just didn't want another Hungerford[nb]The massacre not Jim Bergerac's father-in-law[/nb] after one too many bald and phimosis jokes tipped them over the edge

[idunnosomename]

Guns dont go bang they go pop!!!

[Ferris]

Guns dont go bang they go pop!!!

You're thinking of champagne bottles.

Edit: to be fair could also be balloons.

[Butchers Blind]

You're thinking of champagne bottles.

Edit: to be fair could also be balloons.

Or one-third of Rice Krispies

[mothman]

And Pringles.

[Mr Banlon]

Don Jr, just as classy as his dad : https://uk.yahoo.com/news/donald-trump-jr-selling-shirts-121034125.html

[Endicott]

Baldwin has shot himself in the foot, here.

[lb99]

This is the most Partridge thread I've read on here.

[H-O-W-L]

This is the most Partridge thread I've read on here.

If it helps, I have actually practiced SAS Tactical Rolls across my creaky floorboards to re-wind the long-cased clock.[nb]I am of course joking. The SAS do not perform tactical rolls, rather they perform specific tactical sideways swirls while firing from a prone position.[/nb]

[Goldentony]

let people talk about fuck off big guns you fucking group of auld pensioner NIMBY tits

[chveik]

what if everyone starts calling him Alex