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Who the F*ck is Pete Doherty?

Started by 23 Daves, August 28, 2005, 10:49:13 PM

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23 Daves

Is anyone else watching this?  I logged on here hoping some of you would have thoughts, opinions, etc, but nobody's started a thread yet.

It's not tremendously revealing, quite honestly - it's a self-confessed load of hype which fails to answer any questions, doesn't peel off any new layers to his personality, and is just filled with endless talking heads telling us how great he is.  Oh dear, and Paul Morley has just used Jesus Christ cliches to analyse his status.

The trouble is, I'd really love to have a poetic, counter-culture obsessed, sensitive and charismatic rock star in this country - far from believing that the very notion is pretentious or that I'm too old for such nonsense, I think it's a perfectly valid thing to want.  Trouble is, not only can I not hear that in the majority of Doherty's output, I also can't see it in his personality, sense it in his lyrics, or observe it in his behaviour.  The sad truth is, far from being a one-off, he just seems like a bog-standard middle class wannabe rock star who has read a few books and has some A-levels.  Big deal.

Christ, at least the Gallagher brothers have a sense of humour.

(That said, I'm possibly the only person in the world who actually thinks that "F*ck Forever" is the first good single he's released, rather than the worst so far).

splattermac

The Kirsty Wark thing? I caught it without any of the talking head parts so it was just the pair of them speaking rather candidly. I felt you could see her older and wiser years peeling away when he picked up his guitar and played 'Music when the lights go out', it's hard to resist the charisma of someone who can nonchalantly play you a song that could be a window into their psyche. Aren't you lucky to get the chance to read between the lines?

I'm always interested in people's blink rates, might sound weird but is it a way to gauge the speed at which they live their lives? I put mine in synch with Pete's and he's one slow blinker. Those apertures were wide open.

I like Pete and hope he doesn't kill himself either now on a fame high or later when he's a has-been, or to put it more kindly, when the fame has dwindled.

23 Daves

No, I was referring more to the documentary beforehand.  The Kirsty Wark interview was an add-on at the end.

splattermac

ah right you are, it's repeated after one so i'll watch it then.

Artemis

"Who The F*ck is Pete Doherty?"

Who the f*ck cares? I've not seen so much talk over nothing for a long time.

imitationleather

What about the 'I've Nothing of Note to Say' thread? There's far more talk in that.

I'm bored of Pete Doherty now, by the way. Jungle is massiv!

Rubbish Monkey

I've never hated some one so much since tom hanks.

Borboski

none of them could talk proper.

Oscar

all of them can talk proper, but none of them want you to know, innit?

Borboski

Yep absolutely.  Me and Mrs B watched the first 15 mins, until we decided Xtra Factor on ITV was actually better TV - and Mrs B made me shudder by saying...
"Actually he has got that sort of Oscar Wilde sense about him, as an artist."  Then they showed the clip of him picking up Keats and going "yeah, i read this in prison, y'know, er, yeah, y'know." and she said "I take it all back" - and she said something similar to the above about him being a badly informed six former.

It was just boring rather than wind-up - at least Robbie Williams genuinely gets a rise out me - watching this was just made me feel a bit embharassed.  The people on X-Factor might think they're good singers, but they don't think they're intellectuals.

NobodyGetsOutAlive

Yeah, the documentary itself wasn't much cop was it? He came across quite badly and irritating in that, it'd have been nice if he'd been sober instead of trying to seem desperately hedonistic and rock 'n' roll as he stropped in front of a camera. Still, at least I know how to pronounce my surname now. 'Docherty'.


It was the first time I'd seen the Kirsty Wark interview though and he came across as really decent in that.

Emergency Lalla Ward Ten

I'm fed up with his rabbit-in-the-headlights face popping up everywhere. Although I saw him doing a sort of cheeky chappy 'ska' pose with a trilby hat the other day and I reckon that was worse. If you're going to be a rock cliche, at least...do it somewhere else.

Frinky

He's a wanker, that's who he is.

Thread closed.

Emergency Lalla Ward Ten

Thing is, whenever I've heard any Libertines stuff it always sounds quite good, in a stage-school-version-of-punk kind of way. Nicely stupid, shambolic rhythms and everything. I just...hate the idea of him being an icon.

Frinky

You're right - he's a good musician - I liked the first album, even though it wasn't my cup of tea (Graham Coxon's covers were better, kiddies, the old man can still play your nuts off), but there is some genine talent in there.

Unfortuantly, the amount of twattishness overshadows the musical ability. Most famous, good - excellent, even - musicans are usually bell-ends of some degree, but it's often hidden to the casual listener and the fans work it out for themselves. Doherty seems to sell himself on his own twattishness, as some kind of let out.

It's not a good act.

zozman

Couldn't agree more.  Just watching this now (sort of), and some sixth-former has just said that Doherty is "the best writer and poet of a generation".  

I think he needs to get a library card, the fucking arse.

Marty McFly

sixth-former? he looked about 12!

it made me laugh when he said that nobody else gives their music away over t'internet.

chand

How many times have they shown this this week? It seems to be on every day.

Mr Colossal

Quote from: "zozman"some sixth-former has just said that Doherty is "the best writer and poet of a generation".  


Are there any songs that exhibit this? I've no doubt that he's a reasonably intelligent fellow , but I once challenged a friend to show me an example of his 'poetic brilliance' and the song in question contained the same 'Puppets on strings' metaphor that any bitter muso with half a brain has prattled on about since the dawn of manufactured pop.

Another argument i have hear about his lifeof excess is that he's really quite modest and 'a nice bloke if you meet him' , and that its the tabloids that pursue this hellraiser image. Yet when an unlit cigarette appears  to be stuck to his lip whenever a camera is present, and he stomps about sweatily on stage proclaiming 'What A fuckin' Waster'  I can't help but think otherwise...

mayer

Quote from: "23 Daves"(That said, I'm possibly the only person in the world who actually thinks that "F*ck Forever" is the first good single he's released, rather than the worst so far).

Oh dear. It was a fun enough Oasis-a-like ditty with oh-so topical lyrics in Summer 2004. It was boring as hell by the time it got radio play, and then recorded in the studio when his voice was as fucked as it has ever been and Mick Jones was seemlingly replaced by a retarded chimp on the controls.


If someone looked me dead in the eye and told me they thought that single was better than What A Waster, Up The Bracket, Time For Heroes, Don't Look Back Into The Sun, For Lovers or Can't Stand Me Now I'd probaly insist they hand over their ears to someone more deserving of them.


(If they said it was better than What Became Of The Likely Lads, Babyshambles or Killamangiro I'd probably *shrug* and say that I can't be arsed sifting through rubbish to say what's best, but if you forced me to, Fuck Forever's still more shit than at least two of those)

mayer

Oh, and Doherty's not a poet! He's a bloody pop star!

He's written some fantastic songs (though not for a while mind) and has the occasional nice turn of phrase. A bit like Brett Anderson or someone like that.

My favourite Doherty/Barat lyrics, off the top of my head and some lyrics site.

"I've been following
Your minds instructions
Oh how just to slowly, sharply screw myself to death"

"There are fewer more distressing sights than that
Of an Englishman in a baseball cap"

"Cornered the boy kicked out at the world...the world kicked back
A lot fuckin' harder now"

"First you put the tongue in,
Then you put the boot in"

"If you've lost your faith in love and music
Oh the end won't be long
Because if it's gone for you then I too may lose it
And that would be wrong"


"A problem, becomes a problem
When you let down your friends
When you let down your people
When you let down yourself
Oh, and only fools, vultures and undertakers
Will have any time for you
Oh"



Hardly Wordsworth, but then again, I hated Wordsworth.


Ooooh, pasting those in got me all excited, I think I'll listen to The Libertines for the first time in a long time tomorrow.


I think you lot get far too wound up by Doherty mind. For me he's a popstar I really rated who's gone to fuck. That's quite sad really, yet I barely care because I'm a grownup who knows that there's a world of other music out there my heart belongs to, and that I've still got one and a half albums and a load of bootlegs that mean a lot to me.

For you he's some twat you never liked being over exposed in The Sun (which you profess not to read) as well as the NME (which you profess not to read), and having a documentary about him hidden away on BBC3, which you'd actively have to put the hours in to catch (I didn't bother, I wasn't interested in the slightest in that sort of tragic fluff).

No need for you to get your panties in a bunch, is there?

Did anybody read Simon Price's review of Babyshambles at the Reading festival in the Sindy?  Said that he'd punched Johnny Borrell for some unfathomable reason.

dot

Quote"There are fewer more distressing sights than that
Of an Englishman in a baseball cap"
the fall already killed your family


You know when you end up in some sort of a cine-complex
And the person next to you is someone you hate?
Well well well well well well well well with me,
I end up like that,
All around and inside lift.

All through the walls
It suppurates.
Look it up!
I'm immobile.
Is your house for sale?

And Davey's just got out of his cell -
Where have you been this time?
Your lives are beyond the pale.
Walk the main drag, splayed.
See the blue baseball hatted, baseball blue hatted
School friends, pop mobs
Male loafers, business affairs advisers and members of the band.
Suppurates, look it up!

And every day it's my pleasure to meet
The great league of bald-headed men.

Your friends, pop mobs, first wives, ex-loafers

And every day it is my pleasure to meet
The league of bald-headed men.

Baseball hatted, blue capped.

[You scored passages to assuage their post-latent sexual baldy alopecia] [1]


And every day it's my pleasure to meet
The great league of bald-headed men.

LadyDay

Quote from: "aaaaaaaaaargh!"Did anybody read Simon Price's review of Babyshambles at the Reading festival in the Sindy?  Said that he'd punched Johnny Borrell for some unfathomable reason.

It was at the Leeds festival.

Emergency Lalla Ward Ten

Quote from: "Pete Doherty"
"There are fewer more distressing sights than that
Of an Englishman in a baseball cap"

That's an interesting example, actually. From the pen of Pete Doherty, people think 'Hmm, that's quite witty considering it's Pete Doherty'. But if Half Man Half Biscuit had used that line, people would say 'Hmm, that's not very witty considering it's Half Man Half Biscuit'.

Emergency Lalla Ward Ten

Quote from: "mayer"
For you he's some twat you never liked being over exposed in The Sun (which you profess not to read) as well as the NME (which you profess not to read), and having a documentary about him hidden away on BBC3, which you'd actively have to put the hours in to catch (I didn't bother, I wasn't interested in the slightest in that sort of tragic fluff).

No need for you to get your panties in a bunch, is there?

What do you think motivates the irritation though, especially among people who are well into their 20s and 30s? Jealousy that Kids Today have the youth and shambolic enthusiasm they've long since lost (and maybe never had in the first place)? Or a suspicion that Doherty is a pantomime cliche of a pop star?

If it's the latter, is that based on the gradual realisation that the likes of Iggy Pop and Sid Vicious were probably also pantomime cliches? If so, do they hate Kids Today because they don't want to see them wasting their time on an equally crappy icon?

Or is it just that the tunes aren't very good and he has a punchable face?

You're right that he doesn't enter my life much, except when he glares down at me from magazine stands. So I don't really know why he bugs me.

LadyDay

Quote from: "Emergency Lalla Ward Ten"
Quote from: "mayer"
For you he's some twat you never liked being over exposed in The Sun (which you profess not to read) as well as the NME (which you profess not to read), and having a documentary about him hidden away on BBC3, which you'd actively have to put the hours in to catch (I didn't bother, I wasn't interested in the slightest in that sort of tragic fluff).

No need for you to get your panties in a bunch, is there?

What do you think motivates the irritation though, especially among people who are well into their 20s and 30s? Jealousy that Kids Today have the youth and shambolic enthusiasm they've long since lost (and maybe never had in the first place)? Or a suspicion that Doherty is a pantomime cliche of a pop star?

If it's the latter, is that based on the gradual realisation that the likes of Iggy Pop and Sid Vicious were probably also pantomime cliches? If so, do they hate Kids Today because they don't want to see them wasting their time on an equally crappy icon?

Or is it just that the tunes aren't very good and he has a punchable face?

You're right that he doesn't enter my life much, except when he glares down at me from magazine stands. So I don't really know why he bugs me.

I'm a thirtysomething and I adored the Libertines and I know lots of other 20 and thirty somethings that also adored them. Maybe jealousy is your problem, but it's certainly not an age thing. Most of with an ounce of intelligence always knew that Sid Vicious was a cartoon pop star, and an untalented one at that. Iggy however is not, and never has been a cliche.

Doherty irritates me right now, mainly because of the waste of potential.

mayer

Quote from: "Emergency Lalla Ward Ten"
That's an interesting example, actually. From the pen of Pete Doherty, people think 'Hmm, that's quite witty considering it's Pete Doherty'. But if Half Man Half Biscuit had used that line, people would say 'Hmm, that's not very witty considering it's Half Man Half Biscuit'.

Is that true? HMHB are certainly afforded more respect on VWs than Peter Doherty. Also, that line's in the middle of a song about being young and being yourself and rioting on May Day, which is the sort of thing the kids like. it's not in the middle of a  self concsiously "funny" song, which always gets some peoples backs up (not me, I quite like HMHB and the Presidents Of The United States, in a way).


I remember you on another thread holding up an example of this as a great Robbie Williams lyric which would be worshipped the world over had it not been Robbie Williams:

QuoteEarly morning when I wake up
I look like Kiss but without the make up

I pointed out that the lyric was indeed a fine one, but the reason it wasn't held in any sort of regard was that it was followed by:

QuoteAnd that's a good line to take it to
The bridge

Which is not only a horrible line, but it makes all the wit of the previous line dissipate in my head. And the rest of the song is horrible!

QuoteMy bed's full of takeaways and fantasies
Of easy lays
The pause button's broke on my video
And is this real cos I feel fake
Oprah Winfrey Ricki Lake
Teach me things I don't need to know

And you know and you know
Cos my life's a mess
And it's starting to show so before
I'm old I'll confess
You think that I'm strong you're wrong
You're wrong


It's the sort of woe-is-me bullshit which Doherty's been approaching of late, and it's horrible self indulgent toss.

There isn't a conspiracy to hate Williams and elevate Doherty because the latter is cooler than the former, and they are equal in wit. Williams been writing horrible songs for a long time now, that's all it is


Quote from: "Emergency Lalla Ward Ten"What do you think motivates the irritation though

Honestly? Some people love to be irritated. Pick up a local paper. Preferably in Tunbridge Wells. Heck, I used to read the letters pages on Teletext, purely to wind myself up. Why dyou think I click on these sorts of threads? It's good to get the blood up now and again, even if it's just by reading ill-informed twaddle.

mayer

Quote from: "aaaaaaaaaargh!"...punched Johnny Borrell for some unfathomable reason.

Imagine all the scorn you have for Peter Doherty. Someone on this thread said they wanted him to "die of cancer" along with Tom Hanks. Then they got cold feet and edited it.

I know a good dozen people who can dwarf that for the scorn they feel for Borrell. And I bet £50 that you'd all hate him to and want to punch his smug little pretty face if he put his willy into Kate Moss and was always on the television (which is the reason for Doherty's irritating ubiquity, and lets not pretend otherwise).

For the record, Borrell was in The Libertines, breifly, knows Doherty, and god knows what's gone on between those two spackwits. Also, Borrell famously called himself "'the greatest songwriter of my generation". Has anyone heard the 85% shit Up All Night? He deserves a slap for that comment alone frankly.

In a perfect world they'd both get in a ring and beat some sense into each other for our amusement.

Borboski

Someone else on the internet made me larf:

A festival source told NME.COM: "We've been told that Pete Doherty did in fact have a disagreement with Razorlight. Rumour is that Doherty walked into the band's dressing room last night after both bands had played and in an unprovoked attack headbutted Johnny Borrell. Johnny put Doherty on the floor and left the dressing room, at which point festival security escorted Doherty from the dressing room and back to his bus."

I'm very torn in my emotions when reading this story. Part of me wants to say...

"Much as I despise Pete Doherty, well done to him for headbutting that smug prat Johnny Borrell from that lame, uninspired sludge-rock band Razorlight."

while another part of me wants to say....

"Much as Razorlight's music irritates and annoys every fibre of my soul, well done to Johnny Borrell for punching out that worthless, talentless, braindead overdose-in-waiting Pete Doherty."