Who is the true genius of modern music?

[Morgan]

I said already, it's Robert fucking Pollard, lock the thread and be done with it.

[mayer]

Re. Noel Gallagher. If it's that piss-easy to write those melodies, why is it that Frinky and my mate Joel haven't got as many fans, despite being far superior guitarists? Do people think that Oasis were a band sold purely on marketing and hype? Are Frinky and my mate just far too honourable to do that sort of tawdry mass appeal thing?

Regarding how Noel would've been more cunning in holding back the B-Sides to stay "at the top", his last two singles and LP were, literally, at the top (of the charts).

Bah, I sound like I'm bumming the poor boy here. Be Here Now is half-shit, and Heathen Chemistry and especially SOTSOG are holistically poor melodically deficient bits of work, but, I reckon that, yes, Noel has that effortless flair for knocking out a few bars of melody that gets me humming ninety-nine times out of a hundred, which is a higher hit-rate than most.


And Luke Haines, for the words.


Re. Celine Dion and Westlife, whilst it doesn't devalue their worth as popstars in the slightest, they can't be deemed as (sonwriting) geniuses on the bases of the songs they release, because they haven't penned them, and in the case of the latter, many of the songs are also cover-versions of already-famous songs which have already proved their mass appeal.

Britney Spears may be an expert performer, ditto Beyoncé Knowles, but I've alwaysed believed genius in music to lie in the creative compositions rather than the efficient or stylish excecution, thus I couldn't nominate either of them. If they worked with one or two songwriters consistently (rather than the range they have done), then I may well nominate those songwriters (had of course half of Britney's output not been slow-dull-meandering toss that I don't like).

That is why I would say that Phil Spector was a genius (creator, composer), but The Ronnettes, (talented, sexy, stylish though they were), were not.

[Frinky]

Re. Noel Gallagher. If it's that piss-easy to write those melodies, why is it that Frinky and my mate Joel haven't got as many fans, despite being far superior guitarists? Do people think that Oasis were a band sold purely on marketing and hype? Are Frinky and my mate just far too honourable to do that sort of tawdry mass appeal thing?

It's almost as if you read my post, and then somehow unread it before replying. Nice work, Captain Hysteria.

[mayer]

Was that hysterical? Oh my. :-)

I was just rushing cos my sister had to burn a CD asap and was hovering over my shoulder. I'll re-read your post now baby.

[mayer]

It's quite easy to write a lot of music (and melodies) that appeal to the lowest common musical denominator - I don't mean that in a snobby way, but anyone with a good grasp on music, especially guitar music, know that there are three or four easy steps to creating a melody that you have to try very hard not to like.

Okey, why is it that my friend, who is definitely a better guitarist than Noel Gallagher, and knows his music theory like I know my mum, can't write melodies like that? He has tried and all, in his time.

I always thought that "Genius" was meant to be that elusive unteachable thing, not merely technical brilliance? Noel Gallagher as an untaught musician tossing off melodies that make every twat's (this one included), heart go a-flutter?

I'm not saying he's not good with melody, far from it, but perhaps the mass appeal isn't so much as result of being a genius, but perhaps a shrewd player (or lazy, but, yunno).

We're wandering into Comedy Chat Gervais area here, but I honestly, from interviews, gigs, and definitely the music, don't believe Noel Gallagher to be a cynical songwriter. Those three things definitely make me agree that he's lazy.

I remember an interview when some guitar-playing American fan told Noel that he admires how all his songs "have that same guitar line running through it, like a repeating theme"... and Noel thinking "bugger, he's caught me out!" and saying "Er... nah... er, listen to it more, it's all different, honest!".


Lazy, definitely, but I reckon that's part of his, and the songs, charm.

[Morgan]

[/i]

[mayer]

Peter Doherty.

[hands cold, liver warm]

noel gallagher is shit

[Darrell]

Lazy, definitely, but I reckon that's part of his, and the songs, charm.

I agree that Lazyhour is the true genius of modern music.

Also: that dog dressed up as a hippy.

[Frinky]

Okey, why is it that my friend, who is definitely a better guitarist than Noel Gallagher, and knows his music theory like I know my mum, can't write melodies like that? He has tried and all, in his time.

I always thought that "Genius" was meant to be that elusive unteachable thing, not merely technical brilliance? Noel Gallagher as an untaught musician tossing off melodies that make every twat's (this one included), heart go a-flutter?

Technical excellence does not a good guitarist make, and there are countless, countless examples of that. Maybe he's just not very creative, or doesn't have a good ear for it. But the Point Remains The Same: many, many of Noel's melodies come out of The Big Book Of Guitar Melodies And Pretty Obvious Chord Structures.

Look at "electronic" music - take a beat, take a sample, mix, play - unless you're a complete spaz, you will have a hook, a catch, a line. It's hard not to like it, because it operates at the most base level. It lodges in whatever part of your mind/crotch/arse is receptive to The Music. I think Popscene has one of the finest poppy/punky/rocky melodies ever. But genius? Nah. 4 very basic chords - DFAC. Not even the sharp or flat or anything - just basic, my first guitar chords. Add a brass band, and pick out a few notes from each chord, and voila - simple, hard-to-hate melody. I've written a few, everyone has, unless they're just not very good with music. And I think any decent pop-rock song has got a good melody going to it, that's the whole point, it just depends how it's brought out in the song. The production methods/arrangement Oasis use are very friendly to that, too. A good musician, who knows what works, yes, no question. But genius? S'pushing it, you know? Hardy, stoic, shrewd, but not a genuis. If there's an element of genius to them, it's a cohesive chemistry (not not a Heathen Chemistry! hohohodies), but it doesn't rest on Noel's shoulders (no pun coming).

We're wandering into Comedy Chat Gervais area here, but I honestly, from interviews, gigs, and definitely the music, don't believe Noel Gallagher to be a cynical songwriter. Those three things definitely make me agree that he's lazy.

I remember an interview when some guitar-playing American fan told Noel that he admires how all his songs "have that same guitar line running through it, like a repeating theme"... and Noel thinking "bugger, he's caught me out!" and saying "Er... nah... er, listen to it more, it's all different, honest!"

Well, he's a theif, at least. He's knicked several effects tricks from Coxon - and if Coxon is complaining about something original stolen from him, then there must be a huge element of truth to that, since he's hands-up first to point out how derivitive/shit and lazy he is.

Cynical? Interesting. Up untill now, I would never have thought of him that way, but that word seems to hit it spot on for me.

I've watched thier "noise jams" that seem hopelessly lifted from other bands. They don't put any effort in, they stand there, gurning at thier pedals, nodding thier heads... but they seem like they don't give a shit, and not in the cool way. Like the minimum of effort is all they need to put in to appease the crowd. That, to me, is cynical. The "this'll do" attitude that they seem to generate.

Also, and also with your Doherty suggestion, I don't think genius should be an attribute that lasts 2 albums and then fizzles out. That means they had a lot of good stuff stored up, or a flash of inspiration. Not a constant, evolving ability to pump out nothing but good music. If Noel was such a jeenus, surely Oasis wouldn't have gone so stagnant?

And besides, didn't the first album have a lot of session players standing in for Noel?

FYI; I didn't put Page here, because he's a tremendous fucking theif, and I left Coxon out becuase he's obviously not as good a songwriter as Albarn. You need to be able to write'em as well as you can make'em to qualify, I reckonz.

[Morgan]

Robert Pollard, anyone?

http://www.gbv.com/sounds/Silver.mp3

[Spiteface]

(This is a streotypical Spiteface thread)

I'm Compelled to say Billy Corgan in this thread

He's never repeated himself - No two Pumpkins albums sound alike, the Zwan album was different, as is The Future Embrace  - Some people say it sounds like Adore, which is a lazy comparison, as they sound totally different, to my ears anyway...

Great guitarist too, one of the few fast players I can stomach (Who actually likes listening to guitarists do tapping apart from other guitarists who do tapping?), with some great tones to boot (Siamese Dream especially).

[mayer]

But genius? Nah. 4 very basic chords - DFAC. Not even the sharp or flat or anything - just basic, my first guitar chords.

But I think Johnny Ramone is a guitar genuis, and that comment of yours there highlights why we shouldn't bother discussing this with each other, because we rate "genius" in a very different way. Twist and Shout just has CFG, Columbia is just ADC. Those two songs, in their stark simplicity, betray more genius to me than in all your sharps and flats.

It lodges in whatever part of your mind/crotch/arse is receptive to The Music.

That's what I reckon Genius in music is, often enough. Getting that. Add heart/soul to the list mind.

Well, he's a theif, at least.

One who's always pleaded guilty, to his credit.

Cynical? Interesting. Up untill now, I would never have thought of him that way, but that word seems to hit it spot on for me.

Well, he never spoke about "writing a swimming pool", like his muses did. I think he writes from the heart, always. He doesn't write what he thinks people will like. Even when he's shit (SOTSOG) he's writing what he wants to write. Always.

And besides, didn't the first album have a lot of session players standing in for Noel?

News to me. Even if it's true, (which er, I'd like you to attribute), then so what? I've already explained that I was talking about songwriting ahead of performance, hence Phil Spector making the cut, and The Ronettes... not.

I've watched thier "noise jams" that seem hopelessly lifted from other bands.

Apart from "...Walrus" in the early years and everything on the BHN tour I wasn't aware that Oasis (who aren't "Noel Gallagher" incidentally) ever jammed. Ever. It's not their thing. It's one of the reasons why I like them so damn much. Kick Out The Jams, motherfucker.

Like the minimum of effort is all they need to put in to appease the crowd.

Yeah. That was Oasis on tour in 2002, and on some of SOTSOG/HC I'm the first person to point that out. I had to suffer it first hand. I think they've taken a step away from that sort of shite on their last tour (Hammersmith and City of Manchester) and their last LP (I think has a lot of effort, energy, heart and soul in it).

Around 2002 I was their staunchest critic, because as one of their greatest supporters them going that lazy bloody stung.

Also, and also with your Doherty suggestion.

I'm not going to say "this is a Chris Morris forum", but really, honestly, are you taking the piss? Because I clearly was you big silly.

Though, since you took the effort to bite (which was adoreable, really), I will say this. The reason why Doherty is clearly not a genius is because he's not good enough. Genius has nothing to do with lasting! Not at all! (For me anyway)

I think John Lydon is a genuis for Metal Box alone. I think Phil Spector could've earned the label if he'd only ever written/produced "Be My Baby".

[lazyhour]

# Christmas polar bear....

[Huzzie]

   



   

[Labian Quest]

A great song is a combination of a great melody, combined with the right chords, words and mood, you have to get all the bits right. Simultaneously.  I would say Noel has wiritten maybe 5 or 6 of them, which is about 5 or 6 more than most people who try to do it manage. He has written a lot fairly uninspired and derivative album fillers though.

[Paul's Boutique]

The only person I can think of that is currently making music like no other is Aaron Funk (Venetian Snares).

Thank God for that

[Pope]

The only person I can think of that is currently making music like no other is Aaron Funk (Venetian Snares).

Thank God for that

For my first post I shall have to disagree with this suggestion.
I reckon Venetian Snares is just following in the footsteps of the likes of Squarepusher (who I would suggest is more deserving of the 'genius' tag).
I would agree with whoever said Aphex Twin as he was the catalyst for all this 'IDM' stuff.

[9]

Yeah, Aphex, Squarepusher and Autechre are the big three in IDM really. Although I do enjoy Venetian Snares a great deal, he's no genius.

[Johnny Yesno]

Despite U2, Eno.

Seconded. Despite James too.

[another Mr. Lizard]

Haven't seen Wayne Coyne mentioned so far.

I've been involved in a discussion on another message board, debating the question "who, if anyone, are the American equivalent of The Beatles?", to which my answer was the Flaming Lips. I truly think Coyne will be looked upon as a musical genius by future generations, and the Lips can do everything from hardcore punk to nursery rhymes via psychedelia while maintaining a John Lennon-like simplicity and depth, but, crucially, making it all seem totally original and unique. The glove-puppets, fake blood, and heartfelt 'Happy Birthday' live sing-alongs help in that respect.

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

Despite James too

Bollocks to you. Laid is the best produced album he's ever made.

As far as modern music goes, I can't think of many from rock music, though I think Alex Paterson (The Orb) has a whiff of genius around him.

----

Noel Gallagher is far from a genius. He's an arrogant cunt who is a bellowing pub singer and hasn't made an original melody in his life. He was part of a band that ceated a unique sound back in te day but now he's churning out records that Status Quo wouldn't deem fresh-sounding enough. He's a reasonably shite guitarist and his extraordinary self-belief that he is something special comes from knowing fuck all about music. He's the epitome of average and perhaps therein lies his success.

[mayer]

Bollocks to you. Laid is the best produced album he's ever made.

*giggles*

The funny thing is that you actually believe that!

Low (granted, Visconti produced it, but still), 1. Outside, Music For Films, Another Green World, Fear of Music.

All better than that bunch of twats James who wouldn't know a great song if a bunch of students sat down in a concert and whistled them one.

[SurferGhost]

"Hey don't thank me man, thank the people I copy"


Q: Who Is The True Genius Of Modern Music ?

A:

Genuine A: There are none.
But here are some people that I personally think are/were quite talented or important musicians:














I been googlin' on the internet, all the live-long day

[trotsky assortment]

Good call with Tom Waits there, Mr SurferGhost.

For my money, 'Blue Valentine' contains some of the best musical storytelling I've ever heard.

[SurferGhost]

I prefer his later, weirder stuff personally, but I can't argue with you about the storytelling.
I'm not particularly a big fan of Dylan of Beefheart either to be honest, but I recognise their importance.

[trotsky assortment]

The later, weirder elements of Tom's reportoire have their place.  When I'm feeling really twisted, I enjoy his post-Asylum output, but there are a couple too many shouty sea shanties for me.

[ffogems]

Yes, Black Rider isn't exactly an album you 'kick back' to, is it?
I tried listening to it when drunk to go to sleep to. I didn't even blink.  
Was a little disappointed with his latest offering, just felt like an amalgamation of all the less popular experiments conducted in his previous work.

[dot]

I thought shane macgowan had sobred up



no one comes close

[SurferGhost]

no one comes close

I'm not surprised, with that slovenly attitude-ah

Tom Waits: Mule Variations is the one I really can't get into, it seems like a terrible collision between every style he's tried, with not enough of any one to hold it all together properly, even though there are one or two gems in there. To me, at least.

Dylan of Beefheart

Heh.