Sofia So Bad

[jutl]

Contents Borrowed

Obviously I'm wrong. Rotten Tomatoes have aggregated all the internet-available reviews and her movie Lost In Translation scores a massive 94%. Nevertheless I can't help feeling that a gigantic scam is being pulled here - a directionless, wistful-by-numbers, culturally-insensitive, twee bore-athon has somehow been hailed as a masterpiece. The director and writer of this piece is the daughter of one of the greatest directors and writers in cinema history...

"Fuck off jutl - we enjoyed it - it was arty and funny."

It was arty because it aped so many fucking art movies. There wasn't a single interesting, novel or innovative shot in the entire fucking thing. It's a scrapbook of stolen visual work from Jarmusch, Fellini and Wong Kar-Wai. It was funny because Bill Murray did his usual slightly detached cool person thing - a great schtick which he does admirably. Did he act though? Does he deserve an Oscar? For fuck's sake - it was a stereotypical, phoned-in performance in a sterotypical can't-be-arsed art movie. Anyway - I'm not here to knock Bill - he has to live with his conscience over this thing, and that's punishment enough.

We can go into the other charges on the sheet - acting in Godfather III so poor that I thought she had been sedated to prevent her escape. The Virgin Suicides was just bad...

So - Sofia. Talentless deadpan photocopier of other people's work, or mistreated artist struggling to find an identity outside her father's wide shadow?

[king mob]

I begged you not to mention Godfather 3 now i'll be unable to write my reports this afternoon because i'll be hitting my head against my screen.

[12 Storey Crisis]

Yeah, she was bad in G3, which was a fairly lame conclusion to an amazing series. But I loved LIT and the Virgin Suicides.

What is it Robert Evans says in The Kid Stays In The Picture? "There are three side to every story; yours, mine and the truth. And none of them are wrong." How's that for diplomacy? That job in Whitehall awaits...

[Ronson]

stalin

[Peking O]

The director and writer of this piece is the daughter of one of the greatest directors and writers in cinema history...

...mistreated artist struggling to find an identity outside her father's wide shadow?

Who her father is really shouldn't be an issue. The studios that backed Lost in Translation and Virgin Suicides clearly saw something in them that was more than her just being Coppola's daughter. Coppola Snr. doesn't carry much weight in Hollywood anymore anyway, when was the last time he even made a film? It's fair enough if you didn't like the films, but would you criticize Michael Douglas's career because his father was Kirk Douglas?

I don't think the praise heaped on Lost in Translation has anything at all to do with her father. Take a look at 'Boxing Helena' sometime, the directoral debut of Jennifer Lynch, David Lynch's daughter. You'd be hard pressed to find any critic or viewer that liked that.

[jutl]

The director and writer of this piece is the daughter of one of the greatest directors and writers in cinema history...

...mistreated artist struggling to find an identity outside her father's wide shadow?

Who her father is really shouldn't be an issue. The studios that backed Lost in Translation and Virgin Suicides clearly saw something in them that was more than her just being Coppola's daughter. Coppola Snr. doesn't carry much weight in Hollywood anymore anyway, when was the last time he even made a film? It's fair enough if you didn't like the films, but would you criticize Michael Douglas's career because his father was Kirk Douglas?

I don't think the praise heaped on Lost in Translation has anything at all to do with her father. Take a look at 'Boxing Helena' sometime, the directoral debut of Jennifer Lynch, David Lynch's daughter. You'd be hard pressed to find any critic or viewer that liked that.

No - quite right - the foremost issue here is the shitness of the film. I think it's fair to speculate, though, that having a dad in the business helps - after all, both Lost In Translation and Boxing Helena got made, didn't they?

[king mob]

Who her father is really shouldn't be an issue. The studios that backed Lost in Translation and Virgin Suicides clearly saw something in them that was more than her just being Coppola's daughter. Coppola Snr. doesn't carry much weight in Hollywood anymore anyway, when was the last time he even made a film? It's fair enough if you didn't like the films, but would you criticize Michael Douglas's career because his father was Kirk Douglas?

I don't think the praise heaped on Lost in Translation has anything at all to do with her father. Take a look at 'Boxing Helena' sometime, the directoral debut of Jennifer Lynch, David Lynch's daughter. You'd be hard pressed to find any critic or viewer that liked that.

I liked Boxing Helena.sorry


As for Michael Douglas he's built a career up without ever really living off his dad's name, thats as producer & actor & he's made some good films & some total stinkers.

[Peking O]

I think it's fair to speculate, though, that having a dad in the business helps - after all, both Lost In Translation and Boxing Helena got made, didn't they?

This is true, but I think it's the same in practically any business, entertainment industry or otherwise. I still think that talent will ultimately shine through regardless of connections. Jennifer Lynch didn't get to make another movie, Sofia no doubt will. And regardless of what you thought of Lost in Translation that is justified -- people did go to see it, it got a decent size audience for a low budget movie.

[jutl]

I think it's fair to speculate, though, that having a dad in the business helps - after all, both Lost In Translation and Boxing Helena got made, didn't they?

This is true, but I think it's the same in practically any business, entertainment industry or otherwise. I still think that talent will ultimately shine through regardless of connections. Jennifer Lynch didn't get to make another movie, Sofia no doubt will. And regardless of what you thought of Lost in Translation that is justified -- people did go to see it, it got a decent size audience for a low budget movie.

Yes - and I know it's pompous and opinionated, but I'd say that that was because there was fuck all better on at the time. There's an appetite for movies without explosions, and very little to satisfy it outside of the very indie, very arty sector. Fargo is an example of a decent film that satisfied this need - Lost In Translation is an example of a bad one. It is just a derivative of better movies, which is both why it attained some success, and why it is ultimately a piece of shit.

[Vermschneid Mehearties]

From what I've seen of Sofia Coppola, it's not as if she's devoid of talent at all. Lost in Translation wasn't as good as people made out, and yet it was a lot better than most films in 2003. I thought the Virgin Suicides was great as well, but then I'm a hugeAir fan. The whole effect of the film came across as very dreamy, and overall, terrifically impressive to watch. I guess if you've seen more films, you'll be harder to please.

Just to cheapen things, I thought she looked stunning at the Oscars.

[jutl]

From what I've seen of Sofia Coppola, it's not as if she's devoid of talent at all. Lost in Translation wasn't as good as people made out, and yet it was a lot better than most films in 2003. I thought the Virgin Suicides was great as well, but then I'm a hugeAir fan. The whole effect of the film came across as very dreamy, and overall, terrifically impressive to watch. I guess if you've seen more films, you'll be harder to please.

and if you're a miserable cunt, which quite clearly I am.

Just to cheapen things, I thought she looked stunning at the Oscars.

Thanks for that much-needed note of lusty vacancy.

[blue jammer]

I've said it before, re Lost In Translation, I thought it was just like an extended Air music video, it didn't really do much for me, I just sat watching it, waiting for something, anything... to unfold, but no, it was just dull, I laughed once.

I'm not one to complain about music in films usually, as a film can often be great partly due to it's score, but LIT was over the top, there were very few scenes that didn't contain music!

I loved VIrgin Suicides though, and have bought Boxing Helena on DVD last year, oh dear - it's one of those films that I liked back then, but seeing it now, I cringed quite a lot, ah well.

[Vermschneid Mehearties]

An extended Air music video? I'm sure it only featured Alone in Kyoto?

I do realise I'm being pedantic, and that's not quite what you meant, but still- just for posterity.

[Peking O]

Yes - and I know it's pompous and opinionated, but I'd say that that was because there was fuck all better on at the time. There's an appetite for movies without explosions, and very little to satisfy it outside of the very indie, very arty sector. Fargo is an example of a decent film that satisfied this need - Lost In Translation is an example of a bad one.

Yeah it's possible that is true, although by the time the Coen Brothers made Fargo they had a considerable amount of experience under their belts (Blood Simple, Raising Arizona, Miller's Crossing, Barton Fink, and The Hudsucker Proxy). Sofia had only directed one movie before Lost In Translation as far as I know.

And yes her reference points are glaringly obvious sometimes, but they're good reference points, and I hope she's given the time to develop. I do think she'll be under the media microscope a lot more intensely than other new male directors, but it seems like she's smart enough to cope with that.

To borrow the Coen's analogy again though, if she made a major studio multi-million dollar flop like The Hudsucker Proxy was at the time I think it will be incredibly hard for her to recover in the same way they did.

[El Unicornio, mang]

I thought Lost In Translation was overrated, but still a good film, and it has clearly touched a lot of people, so you can't relly argue with that, even if you're not keen on it yourself.
I do think, however, that Bill Murray's performance shouldn't have got an Oscar nomination. He was playing himself, for fucks sake! (not that that ever stopped Jack Nicholson or Kevin Spacey from stealing Oscars away from more deserving recipients). If you're gonna give Oscars out, give them to people who really suffer for their art, like Christian Bale, who lost five and a half stone to play the lead role in his new film The Machinist, and has had to bulk up for the new Batman flick.
I still like Sofia Coppola though, and her performance in Godfather III wasn't that bad really

[The Region Legion]

I was unimpressed by LIT first time I saw it but it's grown on me over time and I've now seen it 3 times.

Highly overrated but good and I'll buy it when it comes out. That's about all I can be bothered to say about it, I'm too dosed up on dihydrocodine to say anything more.

[falafel]

Just for the record, I love Lost In Translation and have just imported it on Region 1 DVD. A big old nasty ball has started rolling on here with regards to Coppola - one which my 'big teeth and lack of charisma' comment in the Oscars thread may have contributed to - and I just wanted to drop that in. Yay Sofia! (even though you have big teeth - hey, there are dentists for that sort of thing anyway). She does seem... very nice. And I'd probably be shitting bricks if I was up there at the Oscars too. Particularly if  winning something and having to make a speech.

Also, to be honest, I'd also be fairly pissed off if every time someone was talking about something I'd acheived and was proud of kept mentioning my dad rather than me. Equally cursed and blessed, professionally speaking, if you ask me.

I don't care if she's derivative. Haven't you ever heard of Roland Barthes? Maybe there are some rought edges for her to work out, and a more individual approach to develop; the fact is that I wasn't bored for a second of LIT, despite very little actually happening, whereas Gangs of New York (for example) has several very dull patches. I don't know.

[terminallyrelaxed]

I recently read a piece on her in some Times supplement at work. She was up the coast in Italy when they were filming Godfather 3 and the actress meant for the part pulled out or was sacked or otherwise unable to do it, and having no backup planned, Big Hairy Frank called her up and asked her if she wanted to do it. As she put it "your fifteen and your dad wants you to be in a feature film opposite Andy Garcia - who wouldnt?" Or words to that effect. She admitted she was crap, and I don't think she'll be acting anymore....
My idea of Bill Murray phoning in a role is Ghostbusters. I thought he was really quite good, and the whole mood of the film was understated. I suppose I can see where people say he was just playing himself, I don't agree but I can see how you'd come to that conclusion.
Isnt that what good acting is? A window into someone's life, played openly yet believably? I thought his performance was quite personal and engaging. I haven't seen any of the other contenders for the Oscar, Penn included, so I couldnt say really whether Murray would have deserved it if he had won.
As for Coppola Jr. being no match for various other, I'll give you Fellini, but Jarmusch?  He's a fine director, but he's as derivative as the next guy as far as framing goes. I thought the second unit stufff in LIT was superb, how avant-garde do you want it to be, upside-down?

[El Unicornio, mang]

. I suppose I can see where people say he was just playing himself, I don't agree but I can see how you'd come to that conclusion.
Isnt that what good acting is? A window into someone's life, played openly yet believably?

For me, a good actor is someone who becomes someone totally different for a film. That's why I like De Niro, Russell Crowe, Ed Norton, Christian Bale, Charlize Theron, Vincent D'onofrio, etc. They really make an effort to get under the skin of the character, even if it means gaining/losing 50lbs in weight or shaving off eyebrows and suchlike. It shows they are totally into the acting, as opposed to someone like Jack Nicholson who, although I like him as a movie star, seems to sail through every film with the same mad-but-scarily-charming performance. And to think he's won more Oscars than any other man....

[terminallyrelaxed]

Its unarguable that she had resources that other young directors don't, but surely this can only go so far? It'll open doors, but only literally, get her an audience with people who can help, but no-one wants to make an arse of themself, do they? I mean, nepotism must be rife inHollywood, everyone's offspring wants to make their own name, so it can't be hard to say no to some legend's kid, they must do it all the time.
I would say the one time that her name must have counted towards a lucky break, her big lucky break really, when she got to direct The Virgin Suicides.
She'd written the screenplay herself, adapting it from the book, and then found out a film company had already bought up the film rights, so she offered her script (hey, it might get your first screenplay made, I'd give it a try) and not having a script yet the company bought it, and when it came to be made the director dropped out for some reason or another, and they asked her. Now you could say that its obviously because she wrote the screenplay and so really knew the material well enough on short notice, but I suppose her name might have helped - she hadnt directed anything before, after all, although sure she did shorts etc.
Saying that however, I didnt like TVS, I thought it was just, I don't know, it just left me unsatified but not in the desired 'ooh I wonder why they did it' kind of way, more that I thought there was a lot missing. First effort though - it isnt appalling after all.
I'm not being an apologist, if you don't like it then you don't like it but I think there are some very sweeping statements on here.

[TOCMFIC]

You know what amuses me? These whiny fucks I've seen on other boards like CHUD.com saying "Oh if her surname had been differrent the movie would never have been made!"

To which I say "Your point being?" The fact she's related to Francis Ford probably opened doors, but it doesn't change the fact that LIT is a great movie, and the fact of the matter is the comment about her surname opening doors is more a condemnation of the movie studios than Sofia IMO. They wouldn't have bankrolled a movie like LIT if it wasn't a relative of a big name.

As for those criticising her physical appearance and charisma... Go look in a mirror.

[jutl]

Righty-ho. Thank you all for responding to my one-sided miserable-arsed rant. I can't argue with those who just enjoyed it - I envy you. It made me miserable. Now I can watch all of you who enjoyed it partying with Sofia on the other side of the glass, sipping ice-cold cocktails while out here the cold snow of cynicism and over-analysis gets right in under my collar. While I'm out here...

I still like Sofia Coppola though, and her performance in Godfather III wasn't that bad really

Erm.... erm... I just don't know how to respond to that. I'm all for relativism, but if we are redefining the concept of 'not that bad' and attaching it to Sofia Coppola's performance in Godfather III, then our whole system of degrees is fucked. Still, using that system, I think you are 'being quite generous' there.

I don't care if she's derivative. Haven't you ever heard of Roland Barthes?

I don't think structuralism gives you carte blanche to nick stuff in an unaltered, unimproved way - still, perhaps I'm wrong. I never really understood all those French bastards.

Isnt that what good acting is? A window into someone's life, played openly yet believably? I thought his performance was quite personal and engaging. I haven't seen any of the other contenders for the Oscar, Penn included, so I couldnt say really whether Murray would have deserved it if he had won.
As for Coppola Jr. being no match for various other, I'll give you Fellini, but Jarmusch?  He's a fine director, but he's as derivative as the next guy as far as framing goes. I thought the second unit stufff in LIT was superb, how avant-garde do you want it to be, upside-down?

The problem with the Oscar is that they have to give it to someone every year. I think Jarmusch has his share of originality - Stranger Than Paradise was a real novelty when it came out. Sofia obviously likes it.

You know what amuses me? These whiny fucks I've seen on other boards like CHUD.com saying "Oh if her surname had been differrent the movie would never have been made!"

To which I say "Your point being?" The fact she's related to Francis Ford probably opened doors, but it doesn't change the fact that LIT is a great movie, and the fact of the matter is the comment about her surname opening doors is more a condemnation of the movie studios than Sofia IMO. They wouldn't have bankrolled a movie like LIT if it wasn't a relative of a big name.

This is all true. Still, you can acknowledge that that is how things are without liking it. The fact that Lost In Translation got made may well have meant that a decent movie did not.

As for those criticising her physical appearance and charisma... Go look in a mirror.

Again - entirely fair. My only comment would be that, in the extras on the DVD, in the interview sections, she comes across as dim, disinterested and uninteresting. Bill Murray's beard has more insight and verve.

[falafel]

I don't think structuralism gives you carte blanche to nick stuff in an unaltered, unimproved way - still, perhaps I'm wrong. I never really understood all those French bastards.

No, you're quite right, but I don't think she did that - in my eyes she incorporated her influences and her own idiosyncrasies (yes, I think LIT does have character) into a coherent, if occasionally 'obvious', whole.

As for those criticising her physical appearance and charisma... Go look in a mirror.

I did. I am stunningly attractive and an irresistibly eloquent public speaker. But the 'teeth\ability to give an Oscars speech' thing really has nothing to do with her skills as a director, which I'm more than happy about, thank you very much.

[bill hicks]

Lost in Translation is horribly derivative and she should never have been nominated for Best Director. After two films she hasn't shown anything that suggests she is a major directing talent. At least Tarantino knows what to do with steals from other films and doesn't just just lift shots and technique to pass off as intelligent work.

However....Bill Murray is excellent in the film (yes he plays himself, but he's Bill Fucking Murray for christs sake! He doesn't have to pretend to be someone else to be interesting and enjoyable to watch), Scarlett Johansson turns in a great performance, the photography is wonderful (if only for Tokyo itself) and the score is pretty good.

It isn't the new Citizen Kane, but it pisses on most new films from the US these days, and if Mystic River and LOTR hadn't been out last year I would say it should have won the oscar.

Sofia Coppolla is nothing more than a middle tier director, but that's not to say her work is worthless....just less interesting.

Oh and despite the fact that he hasn't made a film for a long time, of worth anyway, Francis Ford Coppola is still very powerful and influential in Hollywood. Remember that Godfather/Godfather 2 are in both the IMDB popular poll AND the Sight and Sound all time top ten.

Despite criticism for hollywood being totally market driven critical praise is just as important to the ego of a studio head. Coppola may be old and increasingly looking like Mr Creosote from Meaning of Life, but he has a reputation as both a populist filmmaker and a critical darling. His films may be poor now, but his opinion is still very important to these people.