What Have NASA Found On Mars?

[hands cold, liver warm]

me True there are organisms on earth that can survive very cold conditions (extremophiles) but they must have evolved (at some point) from species which can tolerate a medium, average range of conditions

ambient sheep Why do you say that?  I'm genuinely curious as to why that condition apparently must apply..

Its because the first self replicating unit is, by definition, a very simple organism. However the traits required to survive in such harsh conditions will be complex, needing the metabolic processes to be able to produce structures  that enable the individual to survive -100 centrigrade temps. So the simple self-replicating unit must be left in benign conditions for a long enough time to reach a level of complexity that allows such unique traits to evolve

me Such conditions have not been present on Mars for millions of years.

ambient sheep Indeed, but couldn't they have begun to evolve into extremophiles during those long millenia while Mars itself became more extreme?

yes, its possible

me Plus nothing on earth could tolerate the amazingly harsh mars surface and atmosphere.

ambient sheep Well quite.  But Mars is not earth, that's the whole point.

I don't see why the fundamentals of life on mars should be any different than they are on earth. Admittedly evolution is a contingent process (one that is based on small chance events) which allows vastly differerent life forms to evolve. However despite the enormous complexity of life on earth, we do see limits on evolution. Not every possible trait imaginable is observed. Trees  with super frost resistant bark are not found in the south pole.

I once had a discussion on the bbc science board with someone who wondered why no animals have evolved to have wheels instead of legs.

me There will be no plant or plant like life on mars.

ambient sheep But this is what gets my goat.  How can you be so damn SURE?  Yes, there may well be no plant or plant-like life on Mars that works in any similar way to Earth-style life *whatsoever*, but how can you be so dogmatic that some other weird and wonderful concoction of chemicals hasn't evolved elsewhere in the universe to suit the prevailing conditions?

How can I be so sure? I am god, that's how

I'll give that a proper answer some other day.

[Pinball]

If we nuke Mars that'll bring the hiding bastards out of their caves. Oh yes.

<gets another beer>

[Peking O]

I once had a discussion on the bbc science board with someone who wondered why no animals have evolved to have wheels instead of legs.

I was walking down the street the other day and witnessed the following conversation between a 4-5 year old kid and his mum:

Kid: "I wish I didn't have legs"
Mum "Why not?!"
Kid: "I want wheels instead!"

[Silver SurferGhost]

What Have NASA Found On Mars?

That's where Jesus is living isn't it? I fucking knew it.

I can never remember if that was one of Philip K Dick's novels or a Philip Jose Farmer one...

Anyway you are all wrong, as usual.
Everyone knows that Europa is where all the friendly space dolphins live.
.

[hands cold, liver warm]

Again it comes back to definitions of life, I fear - if it's self-organising and self-replicating, does it qualify for being alive?  Remind me of the official criteria for life again, 'cos I forget..

I think the definition of life is if it fulfills a set of criteria like:

reproduces
sensitive to the environment
grows
dies
feeds
directed movement
etc.....some more I can't remember

so some moelcules like RNA (simple form of DNA) and proteins can replicate but aren't considered to be alive because they don't feed or move. Interestingly, according to these definitions, viruses are not considered to be life.

I think the simple self-organised, replicating cells you refer to can be  considered life.  Scientists like Stuart Kauffman reckon that these bags of self-organised chemicals were the first forms of life on the planet. If we found one of those on mars, then that would definitely be a result.

However I don't think we will, as they are the very first step in the evolution of life and probably require a strict atmospheric composition, climate and temperature to be formed. Otherwise we would find them on earth nowadays, but we don't.

sorry if this makes no sense, I'm tired and I've still got lots to do before bed.

[king mob]

By nature of what has been stated fire is a life form.


Anyhow i dont think this discovery can be casually written off, its proof thats a very basic of life as we know it existis.

Now that may mean nothing but its arrogant to presume that we are all that exists in our solar system without indulging the concept of life elsewhere.I hope that we're on the verge of a major discovery & we can all share in it without mentioning Edgar Rice Burroughs

[TraceyQ]

By nature of what has been stated fire is a life form.

I seem to rememeber my Dad ( a firefighter) saying that fire displays all but one of the signs of life. I'm too doped up with cold cures to remember all of them now, but I'll have an answer for you in the morning.

[Ambient Sheep]

I seem to rememeber my Dad ( a firefighter) saying that fire displays all but one of the signs of life. I'm too doped up with cold cures to remember all of them now, but I'll have an answer for you in the morning.

From the list above (which is what I was trying to vaguely remember from my O-level Biology), that would be "directed movement".

[king mob]

By nature of what has been stated fire is a life form.

I seem to rememeber my Dad ( a firefighter) saying that fire displays all but one of the signs of life. I'm too doped up with cold cures to remember all of them now, but I'll have an answer for you in the morning.

Its a standard discussion by those against life outside of Earth to never mention how flexibile the concept of life is, your Dad is probably right as it was a firefighter in Edinburgh years ago who pointed all this out to me.

[Purple Tentacle]

Hang on.... a big fuck off meteor / huge fucking volcano wiped out 95% of life on Earth 65 million years ago, causing temperatures to plummet and the sun to be blocked out, and yet life clung on.

How were these conditions significantly different to Mars?

(Not a rhetorical question, I'd just like to know.)

[king mob]

link

Sounds very interesting