The All New General Comics Chat

[mikeyg27]

I think I read on Newarama that because of the album designing Quitely is pretty behind schedule on All-Star Superman.

[Mister Six]

And he's a slow enough bugger at the best of times.

I do miss the days when the idea of delaying a comic by months or even years (I'm looking at you, Warren Ellis) because the artist or writer couldn't keep up the pace was completely unheard of. At the very least, they'd get a fill-in or something. I wish editors had the balls to actually whip these fuckers into shape, but you know that if they tried it on, say, Planetary, Ellis would storm off in a big huff and sulk over at Marvel for a couple of years and never actually get the series finished at all.

[Santa's Boyfriend]

I wish editors had the balls to actually whip these fuckers into shape.

I'm sure they're getting an earful, but you're not likely to hear about it in the press - it's bad business to show a companies dirty laundry in public.

Aside from that, have you ever tried illustrating a comic strip?  It takes  a long fucking time!!  I think it would help if the companies waited until the strip was done before scheduling it, or with ongoing series allow more time for production, but unfortunately I doubt they've got enough money to float such an idea.

[Mister Six]

Bollocks, they're getting an earful. Maybe Johnny No-name who's working on some fifth-string Marvel title might get it, but big "stars" like Morrison, Quitely and Ellis (especially Ellis) won't get in any kind of trouble at all. I can't believe they're still shouting about Planetary coming out once every four months when Ellis has been doing that for years now.

And as for it taking a long time - don't sign up to the job if you can't do it. If you need more than a month to draw 21 pages, get yourself a reliable inker or just start doing covers and graphic novels. It takes some people a long time to make a really good sandwich, but you wouldn't hire them to work at Subway, would you?

[Harfyyn Teuport]

Haha. I like the sandwich analogy;

Day 14 Got mustard on top of the lettuce and tomatoes. Called it a day before I started on the ham.

[Ronster]

Didn't realise how low this thread had dropped!

Anyway would like to recommend the latest JSA Clasiified with the Injustoce Society on the cover.  Really enjoyable read, one of my favourite mainstream issues in a long time.

Any more thoughts from anyone on Infinity Crisis as well......I'm still reserving judgement on it....its already looking shakey to me.

And whats the general feeling as to who is going to snuff it.  Should I post what I've heard/think?  Or is that classed as a spoiler?

[Santa's Boyfriend]

Does anyone know anything about submitting a book to Daimond Comics Distribution?  I'm thinking of submitting the book I've written to them rather than go through an established comics company, but I was wondering if anyone has had any experience of it.

[Deadman97]

Now, the bits and bobs I hear about Infinite Crisis sound really intersting, and I think I might really enjoy it, but have I just left it too late? Do I need to read the Countdown to Infinite Crisis stuff first, and will it just be too much of a  gigantic crossover headfuck for me to even bother starting at this stage?

[Catalogue Trousers]

Ronster wrote (of those blocking the re-printing of Zenith:

Grrrr damn their eyes....who ever they may be

My money's on humourless Scots git D C Thomson, on the grounds of the MANY rather thinly-disguised versions of his characters who end up biting the bullet one way or t'other in Zenith Book Three...

[mikeyg27]

Now, the bits and bobs I hear about Infinite Crisis sound really intersting, and I think I might really enjoy it, but have I just left it too late? Do I need to read the Countdown to Infinite Crisis stuff first, and will it just be too much of a  gigantic crossover headfuck for me to even bother starting at this stage?

Catch up with issues 1 and 2 and it should be fine. If you want further info, there's a plenty load of spoilerrific websites to suit your needs.

[Smackhead Kangaroo]

Sure;y that shouldn't stop the first 2 Zenith compilations getting out would it?

[kidsick5000]

Now, the bits and bobs I hear about Infinite Crisis sound really intersting, and I think I might really enjoy it, but have I just left it too late? Do I need to read the Countdown to Infinite Crisis stuff first, and will it just be too much of a  gigantic crossover headfuck for me to even bother starting at this stage?

Catch up with issues 1 and 2 and it should be fine. If you want further info, there's a plenty load of spoilerrific websites to suit your needs.

Infinite Crisis2 is an essential book anyway. Its a potted history of  the whole Crisis on Infinite Earths.
 Ive got to admit, i like where IC is going. The possibilty of The old S doing something very bad to make things good again.
Its also good that there is now a central comic to go to.  The countdown series had so many red herring tie ins with other comics it  was ridiculous. It was like trying to catch a chicken. (very hard and youll run all over the place.)

[mikeyg27]

For me, Infinite Crisis #2 read like a big apology by Geoff Johns on behalf of DC for the last 20 years.

[Mister Six]

Why's that? Go on, give us a summary...

[kidsick5000]

For me, Infinite Crisis #2 read like a big apology by Geoff Johns on behalf of DC for the last 20 years.

Thats what I get from both big comic companies at the moment. Not in any direct stories but the amount of characters who shrug their shoulders and say something like "what was I thinking back then" about some bad costume revamp that went on

Having read the latest wizard, it looks like DC are sharpening the axe for about half of their characters.
I'm not sure, but any fans of Flash, Superboy, Dick Grayson and many many more may want to get the hankies ready.
Well, until theyre revived in about 2 years time.

[mikeyg27]

Why's that? Go on, give us a summary...

You're lucky I'm bored with nothing else to do...

Spoiler warning for those who aren't too lazy to read for themselves    ;-)

At the end of  IC #1, the Superman of Earth-2 punches his way out of wherever it was he's been all these years after the original Crisis. In IC #2 he finds Power Girl, explaining how he's her cousin. There is this quite cool bit in the middle of IC #2 where E2 Supes explains to Power Girl the concept of the 'multiverse', how it was formed, and then he gives a summary of Crisis on Infinite Earths, explaining about the merging of the remaining earths into one, and how E2 Supes and his Lois Lane, Alexander Luthor and Earth Prime Superboy went to a place where they've been watching over this Earth since Crisis.

To quote IC #2: From our place, we watched this new earth grow.

Next a montage panel is shown featuring the JLA, Wonder Woman, Booster Gold, Supes, basically the core of the DC Universe, all looking cheery, with the caption "the potential was there, and it started off so well, so full of hope. I felt confident Earth was in good hands."

But the next panel is a similar montage showing some of the grimmer aspects of the post-Crisis universe including Robin's death, Superman being pounded by Doomsday before his death, Wonder Woman battling Artemis after she had to give up the title of Wonder Woman, Bane breaking Batman's back, and Hal Jordan going all Parallax / nuts. Over this is the caption "But soon after, we learned there was something inherently wrong. This new Earth was anything but better. A darkness seemed to spread, warping the Heroes' lives. Some died, others lost their way. We watched for years, hoping everyone would find inspiration again".

The panel after this is yet another montage, of the crap going on in the current DC era, showing Sue Dibny's funeral, Max Lord popping a cap in Blue Beetle's head, Wonder Woman with a freshly killed Max Lord, and what I think is Superboy going mental. The caption for this "but as we continued to look on... things got worse".

To me this seems to indicate that Johns thinks that the DC universe has been too grim in the post-Crisis universe, although I also think that the events of the last panel were deliberately OTT in order to emphasise the grimness which I think they're going to tone down in the post IC universe. I don't think Johns is against darkness as such, but to me he seems to be against the use of darkness for darkness' sake. It's like he's saying that DC took it too far, and they know it.

Having read the latest wizard, it looks like DC are sharpening the axe for about half of their characters.
I'm not sure, but any fans of Flash, Superboy, Dick Grayson and many many more may want to get the hankies ready.
Well, until theyre revived in about 2 years time

Nah, it's a decoy. They'll recomission quite a few of them after. Of course, there's been that rumour for a while that Dick Grayson's going to be Batman...
They've already announced a new Blue Beetle book, which sounds promising from what I've heard.

[Mister Six]

But the next panel is a similar montage showing some of the grimmer aspects of the post-Crisis universe including Robin's death, Superman being pounded by Doomsday before his death, Wonder Woman battling Artemis after she had to give up the title of Wonder Woman, Bane breaking Batman's back, and Hal Jordan going all Parallax / nuts. Over this is the caption "But soon after, we learned there was something inherently wrong. This new Earth was anything but better. A darkness seemed to spread, warping the Heroes' lives. Some died, others lost their way. We watched for years, hoping everyone would find inspiration again".

Sounds suitably meta to me. The word is that - as you say - DC have recognised that the late 80s post-Watchmen/Dark Knight era went too far into the darkness and the new, post-Crisis universe will be lot cheerier and more along the lines of Silver-age comics.

[kidsick5000]

I dont think that either company is going to go to the zany silver age style again. It will probably be a bit more grounded than that, just less melodramatic.

I think there is a lot of creative wrestling going on at the big two about just how superheroish to make their main characters.
 Especially the villains. The real world has seen terrorism shock nations, and yet, for all the charcter and motivation they give their villains, they are still little more than superpowered bank robbers. Which in itself is kind of stupid.
Are heroes to battle giant jelly monsters, or grim reality of people who are just out to kill you.

By the way, I cant help but notice similarities between current Superhero woes and what has gone on in Powers.  Especially the Earth 2 superman deciding that this earth doesnt deserve  to go on, and Supershock  in Powers:Sellouts

On the topic of lightening up, are their any  Ultimates fans here who think the Loeb/Madureira team about to take over is a step backwards.
They say its going to be less political. Yeah, and look like it was drawn by a 15yr old skater. I really dont get what people see in Joe Mad..s work.

[Norfolk'n'clue]

The only comics I haev really enjoyed are the Preacher series, The sleaze brothers, watchmen, Books of Magic, V, Miracleman (although I wasnt a huge fan of this) and LXG, nemesis, ABC warriors and (when I was younger) Sergio Arragones seminal biopic Groo.

Some of you may notice my limited scope on these, but hey.

Still waiting for those next two volume of LXG to come out. Moore's a right slack bastard sometimes.

[Mister Six]

I dont think that either company is going to go to the zany silver age style again. It will probably be a bit more grounded than that, just less melodramatic.

Yeah, I didn't mean the zaniness so much as the brightness and a general toning down of OTT "everyone is an AIDS-riddled murderous lunatic who was molested as a child" stories.

[kidsick5000]

Yeah, I didn't mean the zaniness so much as the brightness and a general toning down of OTT "everyone is an AIDS-riddled murderous lunatic who was molested as a child" stories.

I think thats what people want isnt it? See, when DC All Star was first announced, I thought it was going to be Julius Schwartz style silver age tales , just done by top notch talent.  Thankfully it isnt, because that would just be goofy. My jury is still out on Batman, but All star Superman could be the perfect example of balance that DC should go for. although the colouring is ruining Frank Quietlys work

If anyone can help me out with what Im trying to say, please do but (deep breath)
Comics companies feel theyre losing out on with the kids, who are off on the PS2 and Xbox and not spending $4 per comic, at the same time,
theyre trying to get more grown ups to read the comics but they are so bogged down in continuity and so many unheaard of but "important" characters,
that it is hard to have enough "jump on" issues (like a US tv show will have a killer episode during sweeps week and gain new veiwers);
at the same time  some are so twisted/ dumb that they turn current readers off, is does happen, its not just a typical messageboard threat;
And the last and killer point is
Overall, comics are the best written they have ever been imho BUT so much of the art STINKS.
 A lot of art is just bad. I dont mean stylised like Mike Oeming, the only block to Powers ever being really big, but poorly proportioned and badly framed. Or just so, er, everywhere, that you cant tell what is going on.
 Look at the insert of Nick Fury's Howling Commandos. There was no sense of balance, everything had the same thick weight of line. A mess really.

If you have got to the end of that. Congratulations . I hope that feeling of emptiness and wasted time wont last

[Ronster]

I'm not so convinced about DC moving to a less grim future....it almost seems the opposite to me.

A lot fo the characters that have been killed already were the lighter ones anyway especially the JLI Giffen era.  I'm more concerned we're going to end up being far too grim and soul searching.  I can't be doing with all that nonsense again haha

On a different subject I was wondering if there was any of you who might help with a Christmas present idea I am doing for my fella.

He has a big thing for the cover of Crisis On Infinite Earths 7 - the one with superman in tears with the dead supergirl in his arms.

He loves that pose in general and has mentioned a few times he'd love loads of different issues using the same basic pose.

I know there was a similar one when Donna Troy died (all too briefly....) in the Titans/Young Justice crossover........any others anyone can think of?

[mikeyg27]

Tom Strong?

[Mister Six]

Or this Hellblazer cover:



Although it's actually ripping off this statue:

A lot fo the characters that have been killed already were the lighter ones anyway especially the JLI Giffen era.  I'm more concerned we're going to end up being far too grim and soul searching.  I can't be doing with all that nonsense again haha

The idea is that it's going to get worse before it gets better. So it goes all uber-angst for a bit and then it's all rainbows and bunnies and happy dancing.

[Ronster]

Thanks for those two covers.  I bought him a copy of Crisis 7 yesterday and shall add these two to my list now :)

As for uber ansgt vs rainbows and bunnies I'm going to have to go with rainbows and bunnies.  I have no problem with angst its just that in the past in comics angst and issues generally seems to boil down to a lot of whining and complaining and moping or else a lot of shouting and shooting without much else of any interest going on.  We shall see I guess :)

[Mister Six]

Actually I just remembered that the Hellblazer issue in question isn't out 'till February. Sorry!

[Deadman97]

any others anyone can think of?

[mikeyg27]

The problem with angst is using it for angst's sake. I have no problem with angst if it's done well, but too often it's just being used because writers think that it's automatically a sign of worthiness. Basically, it's a lot easier to turn everything all angsty instead of thinking of good all-age ideas.

[Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth]

(picture)

Wow, look at that dead bastard.

[Mr. Analytical]

The problem with angst is using it for angst's sake. I have no problem with angst if it's done well, but too often it's just being used because writers think that it's automatically a sign of worthiness. Basically, it's a lot easier to turn everything all angsty instead of thinking of good all-age ideas.

 Indeed.  Mercifully the 90's are gone now and even the most witless fanboy realises that dark and angsty is actually a real cliche.