Your opinion on Robbie

[Ciarán2]

Why do rappers have to rap on every song?

[eric claptop]

Why do rappers have to rap on every song?

Be-corz they IS rappers.

But back to Robbie, I suppose Tripping is a better offering from him but then, just as you think he's got away with doing something nearly good he goes into one of those rap meltdown bits.

Always pisses me off.

[Ciarán2]

I was being a bit jokey, but then rap is such a part of pop now that really Robbie Williams can draw from the same palate as much as he likes. I take your point, though, it can be a bit tedious.

[sam and janet evening]

It (the rapping) wouldn't be so bad if it was even remotely competent, but that said, I (and I'm not alone in this) often bemoan the fact that pop stars these days don't open themselves up to ridicule (in the songs that is, I don't mean 'going on Children in Need' or whatever) like they used to. I'm thinking of Debbie Harry's rap in Rapture, that sort of thing.
   As for Robbie, by and large I don't much care for him, the first album has it's moments and what I've heard off the new one seems decent enough. The swing album is an insult to the ears.
   But I'm not sure I like all this 'Uuurgh it's music for hairdressers, bunch of uncultured plebs' stuff. Of course most Robbie fans wouldn't like Captain Beefheart, most people wouldn't like Captain Beefheart, that's sort of the point of Captain Beefheart isn't it? And besides you could carry that game on; Beefheart has sold more records than Charlie Patton, Charlie Patton IS better = Beefheart fans ought to go out and buy some 'real' music the historically-challenged wankers.
   A decent record collection shouldn't give you the right to look down on people. Calling people 'Cunt's' just because they prefer a band you disapprove of to a band you do approve of is pretty grim. I don't think anyone who likes Frank Zappa but dislikes Johnnie Ray is a cunt. I wouldn't have them DJ at my birthday party though.
    I don't mind people disliking the records themselves, nor am I against 'elitism' as such, but the sneering is unseemly.

[chand]

He doesn't really rap, he just does that to remind you that he's still got a cheeky chappy accent and really he's just one of the lads.

[The Mumbler]

I'll qualify my anti-pleb remarks.  Pop can be dumb, or it can be clever.  Sometimes it can be both at the same time - and I'm certainly not asking all pop stars to be Bob Dylan.  Quite the opposite.  Actually, I don't even mind if Robbie Williams is the darling of Smash Hits.  But I draw the line with this notion that he represents "quality", destined to boost ratings of Later With Jools Holland until either rolls over and dies.  Where critics who should know better start babbling about his "perfect pop" - the sort who believe that Pop Idol is killing music yet Williams is meant to represent some kind of subversive force - and then congratulate themselves on making this supposedly original observation in the face of almost uniformly unmemorable music.  

Take That made a couple of quite good records, however.  I'd like to nominate their version of Could It Be Magic, Pray and Everything Changes.

[Sadness]

As a songwriter (I know, sorry) that new track "Make me pure" is quite beautiful and I can't help but find myself staring at the fuckin' TV when he comes on??

I've no problem sharing those views but go on give me more reasons why he's shite.....zzzzzzzzzz.....next!!

[Labian Quest]

   A decent record collection shouldn't give you the right to look down on people. Calling people 'Cunt's' just because they prefer a band you disapprove of to a band you do approve of is pretty grim.

Well I wouldn't call them cunts either, but it would make me wonder how much other music they'd listen to if they think someone like Robbie Williams is a genius. If the only piece of music you've ever heard in your life is Robbie Williams greatest hits, you might think it was some kind of masterpiece, but if you've listened to thousands of different mainstream/non-mainstream albums and singles from different eras, you would have a much better basis for comparison and definitely have a much better appreciation of how original/clever/derivative/crap a particular piece of music was.

[chand]

As a songwriter (I know, sorry) that new track "Make me pure" is quite beautiful and I can't help but find myself staring at the fuckin' TV when he comes on??

I've no problem sharing those views but go on give me more reasons why he's shite.....zzzzzzzzzz.....next!!

Well, the video to 'Make Me Pure' is a good example of why I hate him. Aside from the fact I find the song a bit dreary and his voice weak, here he is, doing a song which is supposed to be a sensitive, confessional sort of...hymn almost, and he can't stop himself from gurning and posturing in the video. It's that contrived position he tries to take up between 'I'm Robbie Williams, me, I'm sensitive and I just want someone to love the real me' and 'I'm Robbie Williams, fuck you! I'm the best! Everyone loves my crazy entertaining antics and my massive cock! I'm a modern British hero and you know it!'. That kind of 'oh, my personality, it's so confusing and multi-faceted and I guess you'll never understand' reminds me of a million people on livejournal picking their way through their wafer-thin personalities in public while imagining themselves as some kind of heroic poet.

[Clinton Morgan]

that's sort of the point of Captain Beefheart isn't it?

Don Van Vliet believed 'Trout Mask Replica' to be a commercial record. But I digress.

Beefheart has sold more records than Charlie Patton, Charlie Patton IS better.

I don't doubt your opinion. I've got the Ozit Morpheus compilation 'Gimme That Harp Boy' which purportedly is a compilation of the songs that influence Vliet. People like Roland Kirk and Nervous Nervosa feature. For a 'various artists' album it's pretty damn good. I'd like to get Charly Patton on CD. One day I will. However shifting of record units has nowt to do with it. Robbie Williams gets hyper-praised by his fans (well I supposed I should expect that) and media pundits (I should not expect that) alike. If you believe that comparing something like 'Life Thru A Lens' to 'Doc At The Radar Station' is ridiculous then how do you think I feel when his performance on Live 8 is compared to (without any contrast) to Freddie Mercury's performance on Live Aid.

If people consider Mr. Williams music to be clever then how would they cope when faced with something like Bob Dylan's 'Subterrenean Homesick Blues'? Or if 'Angels' is the greatest song in the world then what does that make 'Eternal Flame' by The Bangles? Robbie Williams fits easily in the world of Heat, 'I'm A Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here', Vernon Kay, commercial radio, current Channel 4, 'Sex and the City', docusoaps and high definition cameras with switches on them to create a film look. I don't like that world, nor do I like the way that people are accepting that world with total abandon. In short it's a "maybe it's just me" comment.

Calling people 'Cunt's' just because they prefer a band you disapprove of to a band you do approve of is pretty grim.

I don't mind enthusiasm I just hate sycophancy. Those who start singing the words when he points out his microphone deserve to be called cunts.

Taken (via memory) from 'Lloyd Cole Knew My Father' on Radio 2.

Q: So what music do you like?

A: I dunno. I like all sorts, really.

Q: Well that's a bit broad, can't you narrow it down a bit?

A: Erm. I quite like Robbie Williams.

Q: Ah. Now we're getting somewhere. So tell me, what is it you like about the overpaid redcoat?

A: I dunno. Because he's really good.

Stuart Maconie: And there you have it. The reason we have music critics is because people would listen to "all sorts" because "it's really good."

[23 Daves]

That kind of 'oh, my personality, it's so confusing and multi-faceted and I guess you'll never understand' reminds me of a million people on livejournal picking their way through their wafer-thin personalities in public while imagining themselves as some kind of heroic poet.

It's quite clear to me that you haven't been on Livejournal that much.  If you had, you'd know it was mostly filled with people going "So... like, duh... I just bathed the dog and stuff" or "I dated Gemma and she was really like cool".

Anyway, I digress... I don't think Robbie Williams is anything much new, particularly.  A lot of male solo artists have slotted neatly into a "light entertainer" role throughout the last few decades, and most of them weren't saying much of any real substance.  Leo Sayer slotted quite nicely on to the Muppet Show, Tony Christie stormed the chicken in a basket circuit, Phil Collins was the cheeky cockney chappie on films and TV... there's a long lineage that always neatly suits the mood of the time.  And, thinking about it, I struggle to find him more objectionable than Phil Collins, though if asked why I don't think I could really tell you.  I think it may have to do with Phil's confessional ditties about his marriage break-up, though, which were parodied to good effect by "Spitting Image"

"I'm so lonely/ cos I look like... Eddie SHAH!!!"

At least "Come Undone" had a bloody tune... most of "Face Value" was just dodgy sounding bongo noises on drum machines, droning keyboards and whining if I remember rightly.  I realise I'm going to offend the Genesis fans on-forum with that, but I still can't bear the sound of that bloody album, whereas I can cope with the Gabriel-era stuff and even "Keep It Dark"...

[chand]

That kind of 'oh, my personality, it's so confusing and multi-faceted and I guess you'll never understand' reminds me of a million people on livejournal picking their way through their wafer-thin personalities in public while imagining themselves as some kind of heroic poet.

It's quite clear to me that you haven't been on Livejournal that much.  If you had, you'd know it was mostly filled with people going "So... like, duh... I just bathed the dog and stuff" or "I dated Gemma and she was really like cool".

Ha, well I have a livejournal, and people I've seen roughly fall into these categories:
1) people who write occasionally and try and write something interesting and worthwhile,
2) people who make 4 entries per day and include every inconsequential brainfart they come out with, and irrelevant things like the examples you made above. Often they'll post cryptic messages that no-one understands to appear enigmatic,
3) people who use it as some kind of therapy, writing pseudo-poetic and self-indulgent woe-is-me rants about girls/boys, their lives and careers with no editing,
4) people who just post terrible fucking questionnaires, personality quizzes ('Which band are you?' 'You are The Cure') and such.

[Charlie Potatoes]

The guy has no artistic merit whatsoever. He's a second-rate light entertainer at best. At worst, he's a prime example of the way society celebrates medicority. Admittedly he's surrounded by a dedicated team of talented professionals, which has resulted in an excellent touring band with some well-written, if bland, pop songs. Whenever I hear the opening strains of a Robbie William's song I'll change stations.

The personality he projects just makes my fucking blood curdle. His intolerable gurning, his constant desire to be pitied, adored and desired in equal measure... I find the way he's adopted various tactics to try and break the American market (fronting Queen, the Swing Band) desperately cynical.

For all I know, he may well be a lovely person. But as it stands, I'd rather soak hijm in gravy before giving the twat a 5 minute head start over uneven terrain against a pack of hungry wolves.

Now there's an idea.

*looks in Yellow Pages for Endemol's phone number*

[Almost Yearly]

Hmm, I don't love him (he wouldn't know what to do with me <pout>) - but I'd rather have Coldplay obliterated from history by Minitru than Robbie. Try that little exercise and see how many ostensibly more talented Stings and suchlike you hate more than our cheeky mancy pooftah.


sick as a pike - I SAY? ... ...  I SAY? ... EXCUSE ME? ... I THINK YOU DROPPED SOMETHING ... [/CheltenhamSpinsterChasingYouDownTheRoadWithYourDiscardedFagPacketOnTheEndOfHerBrolly]
I'm going to link to your hairless chin from every board I'm a member of. Ah. Okay, you got lucky this time.

[Carlos Tevez]

Mine?
Firstly the myth that he's great live. I've saw him live once and I must say running about and pulling faces are not what I consider great live music. Now then his music. I must admit I did like some of his earlier singles like No Regrets which I think is probably his best record, its catchy and its lyrics are not as jaw droppingly crap as some of his more recent hits like Feel, or Rock DJ or the utterly intolerable Angels which must rank as one of the most overrated and soulless dull records ever written. I did think he would disappear a few years ago but in fact he's now at his commercial peak with an ever-growing fan base who seem to lap up his more recent "more mature" music which I personally find impossible to listen to . I can't stand this god complex he seems to have developed and this need he seems to have to sing about his apparent angst and unhappiness with his life. It would be fine if he had the musical maturity and intelligence to pull it off but it fails miserably and if you want proof just listen to Come Undone.

So unimpressed, but so in awe
Such a saint, but such a whore
So self-aware, so full of shit
So indecisive, so adamant
I'm contemplating, thinkin' about thinkin'
It's overrated, just get another drink and

Watch me come undone
They're selling razor blades and mirrors in the street
I pray when I'm coming down, you'll be asleep
If I ever hurt you, your revenge will be so sweet
Because I'm scum, and I'm your son
I come undone
I come undone

So rock 'n' roll, so corporate suit
So damn ugly, so damn cute
So well-trained, so animal
So need your love, so fuck you all
I'm not scared of dying, I just don't want to
If I stop lying, I'll just disappoint you

Come undone
They're selling razor blades and mirrors in the street
Come undone
I pray when I'm coming down, you'll be asleep
Come undone
If I ever hurt you, your revenge will be so sweet
Because I'm scum, and I'm your son
I come undone

So write another ballad, mix it on a Wednesday
Sell it on a Thursday buy a yacht on Saturday
It's a love song, a love song
Do another interview, sing a bunch of lies
Tell about celebrities that I despise
And sing love songs, we sing love songs so sincere

So sincere

Come undone
They're selling razor blades and mirrors in the street
Come undone
I pray when I'm coming down, you'll be asleep
Come undone
The young pretend you're in the clouds above the sea
I come undone
I am scum
Love your son
You've gotta love your son
Come undone
You've gotta love you son
Come undone

Love your son
I am scum
I am scum
I am scum
I am scum
I am scum
I am scum

Anyways what are your own opinions of the chap?

They're like Nine Inch Nail lyrics.

For the record I was quite sad when Take That split.

[Almost Yearly]

He's better than Chico.

[Lee]

For the record I was quite sad when Take That split.

.............

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[sam and janet evening]

that's sort of the point of Captain Beefheart isn't it?

Don Van Vliet believed 'Trout Mask Replica' to be a commercial record. But I digress.  

That'll be why he never became Motown's A&R man then.

Beefheart has sold more records than Charlie Patton, Charlie Patton IS better.

I don't doubt your opinion. I've got the Ozit Morpheus compilation 'Gimme That Harp Boy' which purportedly is a compilation of the songs that influence Vliet. People like Roland Kirk and Nervous Nervosa feature. For a 'various artists' album it's pretty damn good. I'd like to get Charly Patton on CD. One day I will. However shifting of record units has nowt to do with it. Robbie Williams gets hyper-praised by his fans (well I supposed I should expect that) and media pundits (I should not expect that) alike. If you believe that comparing something like 'Life Thru A Lens' to 'Doc At The Radar Station' is ridiculous then how do you think I feel when his performance on Live 8 is compared to (without any contrast) to Freddie Mercury's performance on Live Aid.

Oh, do look out some Charlie Patton, he really is very good. In particular check out a track called 'Poor me' it's not a twelve bar type blues, it's very strange and pretty.
Right, where were we...
Yes, Robbie does get hyper praised by his fans. Captain Beefheart gets hyper praised by his fans. Dylan gets hyper praised by...well, me for one.
Robbie also gets a fair bit of praise in the media, BUT he also gets quite a slagging in the media, I would almost consider him an 'easy target' in fact. I suppose you'd notice the praise more since you can't stand him though. Anyway, I'm not fussed about you (or anyone else - I wasn't purely reacting to you earlier, although you're post did stand out) having a go at the media, it was calling his fans 'cunts' that irritated me.
As for the Mercury thing, I don't know how to argue this really, I don't like Queen very much (on balance I think I prefer Mr Williams), I can imagine Robbie appealing to a similar group of people but there we are, I'm probably wrong here.

If people consider Mr. Williams music to be clever then how would they cope when faced with something like Bob Dylan's 'Subterrenean Homesick Blues'? Or if 'Angels' is the greatest song in the world then what does that make 'Eternal Flame' by The Bangles? Robbie Williams fits easily in the world of Heat, 'I'm A Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here', Vernon Kay, commercial radio, current Channel 4, 'Sex and the City', docusoaps and high definition cameras with switches on them to create a film look. I don't like that world, nor do I like the way that people are accepting that world with total abandon. In short it's a "maybe it's just me" comment.

Well, oddly enough most of my friends don't care much for Dylan, I don't think they're 'Cunts' though.
I don't like that/this world either, I would love to live in a world where I didn't have to go and see silent films on my jack, where Sondheim was more popular than Lloyd Webber, where everyone read 'proper' books written for adults, where television wasn't awful. I wish people would demand more, I wish everything was better etc,
BUT that doesn't mean I've lost my faith in humanity to the point where anyone who is accepting of this culture or (more to the point) ONE SINGLE ELEMENT OF IT (no matter how much you think it 'embodies' the whole disease) can be branded 'A CUNT'.

Calling people 'Cunt's' just because they prefer a band you disapprove of to a band you do approve of is pretty grim.

I don't mind enthusiasm I just hate sycophancy. Those who start singing the words when he points out his microphone deserve to be called cunts.

Oh Good God, people who like a singer actually singing along at a concert, what a bunch of cunts.
Seriously, you may have every reason to think me a 'cunt', (and I'd probably agree) but the fact that I once sang along to the first verse of 'Hungry Heart' when Bruce Springsteen did this is probably not the best one.
Errr... Liking Bruce Springsteen's probably not going to help my cause here is it? Well, substitute someone cool - the point's the same.

Taken (via memory) from 'Lloyd Cole Knew My Father' on Radio 2.

Q: So what music do you like?

A: I dunno. I like all sorts, really.

Q: Well that's a bit broad, can't you narrow it down a bit?

A: Erm. I quite like Robbie Williams.

Q: Ah. Now we're getting somewhere. So tell me, what is it you like about the overpaid redcoat?

A: I dunno. Because he's really good.

Stuart Maconie: And there you have it. The reason we have music critics is because people would listen to "all sorts" because "it's really good."

people with that attitude don't read (or at least don't take any notice) of music critics on the whole (this may well be to their credit these days).

Anyway, just to summarise.
I don't much like Robbie, I don't much like the modern world, I don't much like the media.
I don't think that anyone who sings along with a singer I dislike is a 'cunt' though.

[Clinton Morgan]

Robbie also gets a fair bit of praise in the media, BUT he also gets quite a slagging in the media, I would almost consider him an 'easy target' in fact.

Took them a bit of time though. Once upon a time he wasn't an 'easy target' the general consensus was that he was a cheeky chappie and his 'punk' take on back for good was considered hilarious.

[sick as a pike]

Hmm, I don't love him (he wouldn't know what to do with me <pout>) - but I'd rather have Coldplay obliterated from history by Minitru than Robbie. Try that little exercise and see how many ostensibly more talented Stings and suchlike you hate more than our cheeky mancy pooftah.
sick as a pike - I SAY? ... ...  I SAY? ... EXCUSE ME? ... I THINK YOU DROPPED SOMETHING ... [/CheltenhamSpinsterChasingYouDownTheRoadWithYourDiscardedFagPacketOnTheEndOfHerBrolly]
I'm going to link to your hairless chin from every board I'm a member of. Ah. Okay, you got lucky this time.

Jealous.  I think you do love him.

[Clinton Morgan]

I would hate to meet famous people. It takes the fun out of, "Oh turn it over I can't stand him/her." Then again I understand there is pleasure in saying, "I met (likeable television personality) he/she was a complete and utter bastard and if he/she dies I'd piss on his/her grave as the coffin was being lowered."

[sam and janet evening]

Maybe so, but that would have been fairly early on in his career when he wasn't so big. Most of the time he would have been ignored by the sections of the media that are supposedly aimed at people like us. And his records were better then (the first album, which my mother owns, is pretty good in it's way, I'd probably not buy it myself but I can listen to it happily enough).
And yes, after 'Angels' and the second album's success there may have been a phase of praise (although I think there was always dissent) but like I say, I'm not defending the media. They ARE cunts.

I always thought Robbie should do a cover of 'Oh, Lucky man' by Alan Price. It'd suit him I reckon...

Edit, in response to Clinton's post about two posts back. I don't get that last one, Clint.

[23 Daves]

Hmm, I don't love him (he wouldn't know what to do with me <pout>) - but I'd rather have Coldplay obliterated from history by Minitru than Robbie. Try that little exercise and see how many ostensibly more talented Stings and suchlike you hate more than our cheeky mancy pooftah

I have to agree, actually.  I can't recall the last time I snarled or got agitated when Robbie Williams came on the radio or television, but I do regularly get fucked off when Coldplay/ Athlete/ Snow Patrol start whining their greetings card, Cindy Doll platitudes down the airwaves.  

And that's a brilliant point above.  The lyrics to "Come Undone" are precisely the same sort of stuff that crap goth and industrial bands have been churning out for years.  Or even Roger Waters at his self-pitying worst.

[Chers penis]

I've seen him live several times and even though i'm not the biggest fan he is brilliant on stage. if he had the songwriting ability of a Mercury he would be one of the best stage performers ever, sadly though his musical and songwriting talents , whilst not bad, are at best just above average.

[Garfield And Friends]

his musical and songwriting talents, whilst not bad, are at best just above average.

Out of interest, what's your idea of some example artists who are above average, average, and below average?

[Chers penis]

Out of interest, what's your idea of some example artists who are above average, average, and below average?

when i say "above" i mean very very slightly. The sort of people i put way above average are people like Morrisey, Jarvis cocker Mike skinner. i suppose on reflection i would like to change my mind and say robbie is quite average BUT he does make the occasional song which is very very good.

[rjd2]

Bump

He's back with what some have described without exaggeration the worse rapping of all time by a pop artist. Anybody heard this slice of pop think they have it wrong? Here are the erm lyrics in all their glory if you have not listened to it..

Do the rudebox, Shake your rudebox x4

Ok then back to basics grab your shell toes and your fat laces
A little hand clap for some funk faces
and make your body move in the following places
goes up your back and then down your spine and when it hits your head

Ok then back to baseheads dance like you just won at the special Olympics
I got the rudebox of the back of a spaceship, so sick I just had to take it
The R.U.D.E.B.O.X. up yer jacksy, split yer kecks sing a song of semtex, pocket full of durex body full of mandrex
Are we gonna have sex (yes) will you wear your knee socks (ohh) back to the rudebox

Got this double fantasy where we just never stop,
I've got one design and that's to funk you to the top
Know whats on my mind there's only one thing you will find
I got one design and that's to bump you til you drop

Rudebox, do the rudebox, cos you so nasty
Rudebox, shake your rudebox, why you so nasty

Rudebox, do the rudebox, cos you so nasty
Rudebox, shake your rudebox, why you so nasty

Ok then back to spaceship, take both pills fuck the matrix
Jack those jills shake your Playtex rock 3 stripes not the asics
A.D.I.D.A.S old school cos it's the best %u2013 yes
Tk max cost less yes
Jackson looks a mess bless

Ok then what to do
if you try to jack me ill rudebox you
if you rudebox me ill rudebox your whole crew
cos its what I do aint that right boo %u2013 true

I'll ride with you if you can get me to the border cos the sheriff's after me for what I did to his daughter
I did it like this you did it like that I love it when you double clap clap

Grab this double fantasy where we just never stop
I've got one design and that's to funk you to the top
Know whats on my mind there%'s only one thing you will find
I got one design and that's to bump you til you drop

Rudebox, do the rudebox, cos you so nasty
Rudebox, shake your rudebox, why you so nasty

Rudebox, do the rudebox, cos you so nasty
Rudebox, shake your rudebox, why you so nasty

Ok then check the tan line, make your body shape like you're stood on a landmine
call me on my mobile not the landline and the jack the mainline at the same time

Ok this is what we do, got a jam so fresh its nice for you
Ok give it what you got and dial 808 for the bass to drop
Ok then whats the fracas grab your cardy your lead hat and your bus pass
you don't sweat much for a fat lass grab your rudebox cos your box is righteous

Ok bum rush the show I got high speed dubbing on my stereo and all the tunes in the box are the cherrio
I know I told you before
did you hear me though

Grab this double fantasy where we just never stop
ive got one design and that's to funk you to the top
Know whats on my mind there's only one thing you will find
i got one design and that's to bump you til you drop

Rudebox, do the rudebox, cos you so nasty
Rudebox, shake your rudebox, why you so nasty

Rudebox, do the rudebox, cos you so nasty
Rudebox, shake your rudebox, why you so nasty

Do the rudebox, shake your rudebox (repeat to fade)

[Shoulders?-Stomach!]

The R.U.D.E.B.O.X. up yer jacksy, split yer kecks sing a song of semtex, pocket full of durex body full of mandrex

Heheh.

These always look worse on paper. I doubt I'll ever hear it, but good luck to him with lyrics like these.

[jennifer]

Are we gonna have sex (yes)

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

*wipes eye*

[Sheriff John Indolent]

Whenever he raps he sounds like Paul Daniels doing the Wizbit theme song. It might even be by design, he's that post modern.

'Rudebox', I ask you. It sounds like the title of a dirty poem written by a six year old.