Yourself

[Suttonpubcrawl]

It's the most important relationship you'll ever have, the relationship you have with yourself. That's not a pretentious opening to the post, it's me laying the foundation for a million wanking jokes. But it also has a grain of truth in a sort of stating the obvious way. How do you feel about yourself? What is your view of you? There are a lot of possibilities, and a lot of conflicting views about those possibilities. People are supposed to feel good about themselves and have good self esteem, but if they feel too good about themselves they're smug, up-their-own-arse gits. On the other hand if they don't like themselves they become tediously self-deprecating whingers, always finding an opportunity to crowbar in a reference to how they think they're so worthless boo hoo slash slash the wrists.

Personally, I'm filled with constant self loathing and feelings of inadequacy, but it's a cross I bear cheerfully and at a slightly jaunty angle as if to say "I'm not that bad really, am I?". It's the only way to do it, you know. It prevents one from becoming too tedious, like the aforementioned whingers. At least that's what I hope (phew, mustn't become too self-deprecating after what I said in the previous paragraph).

I had in fact thought it was fairly normal to feel as I do, until one day when I was helping to put the results of a questionnaire on self image into a computer. I was struck by the fact that everyone's answers, even those who I'd have thought would hate themselves (it was meant to be confidential but the handwriting was easily recognisable, how unethical of me!), were remarkably upbeat and confident sounding. I was the only person who didn't seem to love myself. I was left with mixed feelings: half "blimey, am I really that unusual?" and half "smug gits!". Mind you, that was in America and don't they beat self esteem into people with extreme violence at the age of two over there?

So, what are you like? Filled with confidence and a love of who you are? Full of self hatred? Or somewhere in the middle? And what do you think of how other people think of themselves? Is a bit of self hatred and a slight lack of confidence a healthy thing? Or should everyone be certain of themselves, 110% confident of their ability to do anything they choose? And have I turned into Kilroy introducing one of his talk shows? If so thank God, I was ill the other day and it just wasn't the same in the morning without Kilroy to watch.

[Hypnotoad.]

It's the most important relationship you'll ever have, the relationship you have with yourself. That's not a pretentious opening to the post, it's me laying the foundation for a million wanking jokes. But it also has a grain of truth in a sort of stating the obvious way. How do you feel about yourself? What is your view of you? There are a lot of possibilities, and a lot of conflicting views about those possibilities. People are supposed to feel good about themselves and have good self esteem, but if they feel too good about themselves they're smug, up-their-own-arse gits. On the other hand if they don't like themselves they become tediously self-deprecating whingers, always finding an opportunity to crowbar in a reference to how they think they're so worthless boo hoo slash slash the wrists.

Personally, I'm filled with constant self loathing and feelings of inadequacy, but it's a cross I bear cheerfully and at a slightly jaunty angle as if to say "I'm not that bad really, am I?". It's the only way to do it, you know. It prevents one from becoming too tedious, like the aforementioned whingers. At least that's what I hope (phew, mustn't become too self-deprecating after what I said in the previous paragraph).

I had in fact thought it was fairly normal to feel as I do, until one day when I was helping to put the results of a questionnaire on self image into a computer. I was struck by the fact that everyone's answers, even those who I'd have thought would hate themselves (it was meant to be confidential but the handwriting was easily recognisable, how unethical of me!), were remarkably upbeat and confident sounding. I was the only person who didn't seem to love myself. I was left with mixed feelings: half "blimey, am I really that unusual?" and half "smug gits!". Mind you, that was in America and don't they beat self esteem into people with extreme violence at the age of two over there?

So, what are you like? Filled with confidence and a love of who you are? Full of self hatred? Or somewhere in the middle? And what do you think of how other people think of themselves? Is a bit of self hatred and a slight lack of confidence a healthy thing? Or should everyone be certain of themselves, 110% confident of their ability to do anything they choose? And have I turned into Kilroy introducing one of his talk shows? If so thank God, I was ill the other day and it just wasn't the same in the morning without Kilroy to watch.

[slim]

I like myself and I'm confident in my abilities. I hope I'm not smug and arrogant, and try not to be, but it's an inherent danger and a distinct possibility when you're confident.

I'm also a mix of false modesty and modesty. So perhaps I'm somewhere in the middle but erring towards arrogance. That's probably fair.

[Mister Six]

I tend to swing between being fairly happy and satisfied with my life, and being down and paranoid that people secretly don't like me. Not to the extent that I think I'm manic depressive, or anything, though.

[trotsky assortment]

I'm very much up and down as well.  Some days are all sunshine and rainbows, on others I'll be quick to bash myself with the self-depriciation hammer.  I think that's the way life works for most people - I mean, it can't be great all the time...can it?!

[Almost Yearly]

I'm ace me.


But I've not been myself.


I've been to paradise though.

[slim]

I liked the Ned's cover of that better than the original, you know.

[23 Daves]

Mmm... this is a very old-school Cookd and Bombd post, isn't it?  It must be, I reflexively clicked on "reply" without really thinking about it.

My self-esteem seems to soar and dip regularly throughout my life, and is generally linked to what's going on around me at the time.  If I'm having a rough time, chances are I'll get drunk, be nasty to someone I shouldn't be callous to, which I'll then hate myself for the next morning.  Then because of that, and another bad incident, I'll get drunk again, repeat the mistake outlined above, etc... etc... until I'm a self-loathing wreck.  This is why I tend not to drink alcohol if I'm going through a bad patch these days.  I know damn well what I'm like under those circumstances, and it's not worth the grief I'll end up giving myself and others.  I still sometimes cringe at past incidents from six or seven years ago that were the result of a few too many whiskeys.

On the other hand, if things are going pretty well, I'll generally be reasonably bouyant, selectively generous to others, quite communicative (as opposed to avoiding the phone), and generally encouraging.  I'd like to think I manage an even keel most of the time, and obviously being married means that I don't stress so much about relationship failures and what they might say about me.

The only time I genuinely think I became so confident that I was an arrogant twat was probably the last half of my second year at university.  The real world hadn't quite touched me yet and was some way off, and I was generally considered quite smart by the lecturers, and plus I was music editor of the University Magazine which of course means nothing now (nobody read the sodding rag really) but in the little bubble that is student life it was seen as being quite a big deal that I got plus one on the guest list to gigs and met vaguely famous people and stuff.  So.... I became a bit too cocky for my own good.  Irritated a lot of other folk, who to this day almost certainly roll their eyes if my name is mentioned (a friend recently had to defend me to the hilt when he bumped into an old acquaintance from those days).  I wasn't deliberately nasty, but I was very black and white in my thinking, quite argumentative, and generally considered myself above most of the pathetic "students" that were around me, all the time behaving in much the same way they did.  

On the subject of how other people should be, I don't mind confidence in the slightest, but it has to have a basis.  Salesman-like confidence just pisses me right off.  The friendly confidence the Yanks seem to specialise in, on the other hand, is fine.  They don't tend to bombard you with information about themselves all the time, they are listeners as well (I find).  That's nice.  It shows they think enough of themselves to believe that you'd be interested in talking to them, and they think enough of you to believe you're worth the time.  My teeth only grit when they start waffling about how great a country America is compared to the rest of the world and a whole bunch of other places they've probably never even been to.

[hencole]

I haven't felt genuinly sad or depressed for years now. I am optimisticly pesimistic the whole time. I laugh my way through life and find it very difficult to get stressed by anything. That said I haven't been overtly ecstatic about anything either, but I'd rather be like that then depressed. I am 100% confident in myself whilst remaining self depeciating, I'd like to think anyway. That doesn't meen I come across as being amazingly confident. I'm don't have any big ambitions so I'm never disapointed. Nothing bad has happened to me in years, no deaths, no messy breakups, no health problems, not too many financial woes. When they do maybe I'll become a gibbering wreck. There are things I want in my life that I don't have which I am slowly summoning the energy to try and get after a long period of extreme laziness.

[Suttonpubcrawl]

It's interesting how people have tied this in to happiness. The funny thing is that I can be pretty happy and have things going well for me, but still not particularly like myself and feel embarassed about things I've done. Even if on balance other people probably don't think anything of those things! Like I hinted at in my first post, I seem to hate myself, but at the same time have a part of me saying "but you're better than most of those cunts out there", while another part of me then says "no you're not! Shutup you stupid cunt!".

[Dusty Gozongas]

Being human is nice, I think.

Therefore...

Aha!

[Xander]

Oooh, sadly, I think I'm going to give one of those generic answers that never gets quoted. I'm somewhat satisfied, if I could lose this extra weight and didn't fuel my body solely on alcohol. I'm not overweight, but I notice it more than most. Also, I'm not an alcoholic, but I notice it more than most again. I'm exceedinly self aware. My physical form and habits, I could take or leave.

Then again, I'm confident in my abilities. I can spot a comic quote from 50 paces away and I can educate my friends both on the pre/post Crisis DC Universe and the specifics of Law. Also, I know my cult movies. My abilities in what I do well are second to none. I'm incredibly poor at sport except for Badminton, which I can about cope with, and am quite adept at.

I suppose the best thing I can say for myself is that I know my stuff, and what I don't know, I give a damn good go. It's not overconfidence in people I dislike, it's either a misplaced overconfidence, or the confidence along with the intelligence and beauty. Although, there's a certain type of person who is objectively attractive, objectively intelligent, popular, but also so modest that you can't help but to like him. I hate that because I'm a) not that and b) they're too much of a good thing.

[Labian Quest]

I don't really understand self hatred; if there is some aspect of my behaviour I'm not happy with, then I try and put it right, and if it doesn't seem like I can then there's not much point in worrying about it. One thing I'm trying to do more these days is trying to empathise with people more; I'm trying to develop my self awareness and my awareness of how other people are reacting to me. 'No man is an island' etc.

[Suttonpubcrawl]

Aha, interesting that you're the first to bring up the issue of physical attractiveness, Xander. I don't know that it has much of an effect on me. I mean I suppose I feel a bit more confident when I think the clothes I'm wearing are good and I'm well turned out, but in general I'm not that bothered. I know I'm not particularly attractive and I've just got used to that really. It must be my glorious beard that brings me comfort and reassurance.

[Lt Plonker]

The funny thing is that I can be pretty happy and have things going well for me, but still not particularly like myself and feel embarassed about things I've done.

Yes, same here. Especially that last bit. I still get hung up over inconsequential things I did ages ago, like a stupid comment I make to someone or something daft I did. I made a tit of myself in a lecture in my first year, and I still cringe everytime I think about it. Or when I said goodbye to everyone individually at the BBQ meet. What was I thinking? Gah.

I go through peaks and troughs like alot of other people has said, but I'm often glad I'm me though. I overheard someone calling me 'a character', the other week, and that made me chuckle. It's nice to be thought of as a bit odd. :)

[VegaLA]

This is another great thraed, cheers Sutton.
I love reading through these posts, you find out so much more about everyone.
I just wrote a long-arsed reply but stopped myself in mid flow. I was babbling on about how I seem to be more inclined to help animals than humans and went totally off the rails.
My point was however was that YES, you should be more self loving and not worry about any negative comments others may say about you, no matter how close they are to you. Some people don't grow into themselves untill their early 40's, some, like myself, untli their late 20's. Others are born positive. Its all down to personal experiences and the people you surround yourself with.

[Des Nilsen]

I'm quite happy. Actually, much happier than I've been for a long time, this last year. It's a strange building happiness, like some change in my brain chemicals. I feel higher, more confident and a great deal more at ease with myself. Difficult to explain it really.
I'm not ignorant to misery or reality, I'm just pleasantly lifted by something I can't put my finger on. Maybe it's because I've been expressing myself properly, I think - more music, more talk and so on. All of that came about after the change though. Gah.

I think I'm still an awkward sausage, though. I wonder sometimes what other people must think of me when I sit there and don't say a word, just smiling and giggling. Even if they are genuine smiles and giggles. Truth is, I'd feel uneasy around someone like me.
I'm a frustrating person, I think. I should push myself more. I procrastinate, and I'm sure it covers my social life too. That's no way to be - I keep telling myself that.
I also like to tell myself that 'I have everything I'll ever need'. It's true, actually. I'm sure of it. Everybody does, and to a certain extent it boosts me even more.

(Hmmmm... waffle waffle waffle :D )

I think I'm a decent, middle of the road sort of person. Reliable, friendly, but hard to know. Also, quite self depricating, but it's very lighthearted. I can't hate myself. I might possibly feel sorry for myself, as I do most people who others might hate. That's as bad as it gets, thankfully.

Ho-hum!

-

[Smackhead Kangaroo]

I suspect that there's also a strong influence of Egotistical bullshit language that goes hand in hand with talking about yourself which has made Suttonpubcrawl's questionnaires read more confidently than they should.
It's certainly true of the sort of languge people use on CV's and some people rather disturbingly speak in tones that suggest confidence - lots of Americans do this I find.

Just another point of view instead of rambling on about how wonderful I am.


I'm shit me. I'm off to cut myself now.

[Artemis]

So, what are you like?

Quietly bemused.

Filled with confidence and a love of who you are?

On some levels, yeah. This has increased as I've gotten older. 'Other people' have started to mean less and less in the context of how I feel about myself. I used to be very concerned about them and quite insecure, based largely on physicality, but that's the folly of youth and the pretty nasty nature of some of the imbeciles I was priveleged to know at the time. The older I get, the more people I've met on my terms, and I became confident enough that all the people who have liked me do not share a common degenrative mental illness and on that basis, am much more content and at ease with who I am.

Full of self hatred?

Not hatred, no, but an intesne frustration sometimes. I know this is going to sound incredibly wank, but on occasion it feels as if my heart has almost touched who I am and I'm waiting for the rest of me to catch up so I can progress spiritually as a person. This leads to a frustration at how slowly I sometimes find myself stepping out of comfort zones, taking risks and doing all the things necessary to explore and understand myself, and ultimately find my home. I've done well at that over the last two or three yeasr, though.

what do you think of how other people think of themselves?

Like parenting, I think the ones who believe they're Gods gift as usually the ones with the most work to do. I don't know really is the answer to the question - I'd like to think people are generally trying to be the best they can be, but people-watching in Manchester city center sometimes makes me wonder whether some people have kind of resigned themselves to the lives they perceive themselves to be trapped in, and have almost given up trying, just routinely 'living' which is so depressing I don't have the words for it.

Is a bit of self hatred and a slight lack of confidence a healthy thing?

It depends what you do with it. Stuck in a self-loathing rut isn't healthy, but identifying areas for self-improvement and then working at it can be tremendously rewarding. Lack of confidence sounds pretty healthy really, so long as it doesnt become a hurdle. As the wise old woman wrote, 'Feel the fear and do it anyway'.

have I turned into Kilroy introducing one of his talk shows?

You're getting there, yes. You need to say 'perhaps' and 'maybe' a bit more.

[difbrook]

There are a few things about me that I'm not satisfied with, but I do think I've got a few good things going for me.

Self-esteem is pretty much non-existent - usually I can build myself slowly to a level where I'm reasonably happy with myself, then someone will deliver a throwaway comment - which they then forget about completely - and I plunge straight down into the pits for weeks. Then I start clambering up again. And the cycle goes on.

I get stuck in worry-loops. The brain starts gnawing away at a thought and it won't let go. At the moment, it's money. I'm somewhat financially insecure at the moment, and my thoughts keep circling around the problem, trying to find solutions and calling up worst case scenarios. I've learnt to combat these spells with intense displacement activity - my workrate goes through the roof when I'm like this so it benefits someone, at least...

I'm also vigorously anti-social, on a personal level. Never used to be like that, used to be gregarious and people-loving at all times. Nowadays, I tend to be most content when I'm sitting around in my flat on my own or pootering about on the pc trying to solve little technical problems. Of course, when you're on your own, that's when the worry-loop kicks in - so there's one solution right there.

I also never *ever* allow myself to relax - to think "everything is fine", because that has always been the point where I've suddenly discovered that it isn't. Every single time.

on the upside, I don't actively dislike what I am. I'm polite to a fault - if you do something for me, you'll almost certainly get thanked repeatedly, and if it's within my means to help someone out, I will do so if I can possibly manage it.

And I've come to realise that usually when I start feeling like shit about something, it will pass. I just have to work through it. Used to be that I couldn't see a way out, but I tend to just ride it out these days.

the worry-loop works in good ways as well - present me with a problem that needs solving and I will pick and pick at it until I've found a solution. Very handy for my work, which usually consists of students coming up to the desk and asking random questions where they don't even know what they want. I have an organisational cast of mind that means I'll be able to sift out what they don't want, and hopefully eventually arrive at some sort of an answer.

I'm a fairly flawed human being, but I don't think I'm an actively bad one. I just wish I could occasionally stop and go "hang on - everything's alright" rather than wondering when the ACME safe is going to come plummeting out of the clear blue sky...

there. That was cathartic. Better out than in, I think!

[The Boston Crab]

I am Joe F. Dude.

[Artemis]

I'm a fairly flawed human being, but I don't think I'm an actively bad one.

Me neither. After reading that, I have to say I think you're great. :-)

[Mr. Analytical]

Yeah.... I'm pretty much worthless.  A picture of a wasted life.

I have some interesting and original thoughts but no real way to systematically express them in such a way that other people might be interested in listening to me.

I have good social skills but I enjoy being on my own far too much and I ultimately look too much like a psychopathic truck driver who'd beat you to death with a tyre iron before raping your still warm corpse to really be able to use those skills effectively.

I'm affectionate and a passingly good lover but since my last relationship broke up I've either yet to motivate myself enough to go out with anyone I like OR have yet to meet anyone I like enough  to seriously want to go out with.

Basically I don't know anyone about whom the old cliche "he's his own worst enemy" is more true than it is about me.  A good job, a viable creative output and a decent girlfriend are all acheivable for me but ultimately I'd rather be at home watching a DVD and eating ice cream.

A picture of a wasted life... look upon my works ye mighty and have a bloody good laugh.

[Almost Yearly]

No, let's all weep together, all wasted lives with ice cream round our gobs. Never mind, dead soon.

[hencole]

AY you asked back in the drugs thread to update you on whether my K experience and my belief in it's life changing/affirming properties would last. After a week the idea had passed, but now 2 months later I have now stopped smoking weed habitualy am doing as much exercise as i was many years ago and generally am more motivated than ever before. So there I was right, maybe ; )

[difbrook]

I'm a fairly flawed human being, but I don't think I'm an actively bad one.

Me neither. After reading that, I have to say I think you're great. :-)

thank you very much! Reading through this thread, I think we're all pretty nice people...

[Mediocre Rich]

On the whole I'm a bit of a cock really.  But in a nice way.

[pillockandtwat]

"Whoever despises himself still respects himself as one who despises."

[All Surrogate]

"Whoever despises himself still respects himself as one who despises."

Heh heh, good old Nietzsche, the original guru for psychopathic loners with a superiority complex.  As for meself, another quote from Friedrich:

The thought of suicide is a powerful solace: by means of it one gets through many a bad night.

:)

[Captain Crunch]

On reflection, I'm far better at knowing what others think of me than I am about knowing myself.

Finding out what others think of you is fairly easily.  Bit of eavesdropping, outright asking and a decent bullshit x-ray is really all you need.  And a skin like a rhino of course.

However, I would argue that a person can never truly know themselves as they lack a reasonable benchmark against which to judge.  For example, I might consider myself quite a kind, generous type but put me next to, oh I don't know, Cliff Richard or a Shelter support volunteer and now I look like a selfish callous twat.  Repeat this process for things like chirpiness, intelligence and tolerance and you get the idea.  That's not to say it's impossible to really know yourself, just that a perception is based on environment, experience and peers and so probably more a reflection of that than of your 'true' self.

I'm all for embracing the plurality of the self but still like to find nice solid hangers for my identity.  I'm probably the only person who loves it when someone says "Let's go round the table and introduce ourselves".  I know in theory it's better to assert yourself as an individual ("I am Dave" fullstop) but I much prefer the do-what-you-sell route ("My name is Dave and I am butcher*").  Maybe that's just an insecurity, a need for an external identity even but I still prefer it.


*My name is not Dave and I'm not a butcher.  Sadly.