Art on the telly (Imagine BBC 1 tonight - 10:35 - Warhol: Denied)

[splattermac]

Art on the telly (If you see any interesting art progs coming up be sure to tell us)

It does exist and proof came this evening in the form of a very interesting and entertaining David Shrigley piece "Spin" shown on BBC3 tonight (Wednesday). It's repeated today (Thursday) and Friday but in the wee hours so matchsticks at the ready unless UKnova or a techwhore captures it for sharing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/tv/spinart/

Here's an example from the show. He got this to drive around Twickenham but eventually they were moved on by the police.

http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/5267/shrigleyrugby4qq.gif

So please use this thread to keep us notified of arty stuff on the telly.

[lazyhour]

Wow, I'm really upset that I missed this.  I do so love David Shrigley.  If no-one can capture it, I'll see if I can set the video to record digital.  Only drawback is that recording digital in the past has always, always resulted in inteference and fuzz on the picture.  Still, it can be a backup plan.

Thank you for this heads up, splat, and great idea for a thread.

[9]

I stayed up late to watch this and although the program itself was quite interesting and Shrigley seems like a lovely chap, I was left very cold by his art - as I have been in the past. Seemed like very lazy post-Trigger Happy stuff really.

People seem to really like him and I remember Will Self writing something about him being ace ages ago, but I ain't feeling it. 'Legalise Pottery'? Meh.

If anyone can point me in the direction of something of his that is good I'd be most grateful.

[splattermac]

Not the old show me something good conundrum you tricky devil. Ok these are my arguments for good. It's a lot more difficult to make a case for exceptional though.

Ok, this is good
http://www.shynola.com/movies/goodsong/full_04.mov

Imagine this boiled and served as the head of a chip skeleton!

This is also good

In the show there was a nice couple of seconds where they asked passersby what they thought of his Manchester installation 'the bully' and one guy meh'd 'it looks like a Shrigley'. That's what happens when you are on the inside of the art world, you're prepared for such things and already predisposed to critique. However his other pieces such as 'Bird flu' got a good response from the unexposed average Joe in the street who were pondering the 'why?'s and 'what does it mean?'s of it all, or just enjoying his simple puns. I liked that about the Spin project. It took the news - paper, broadcast, website - all of which are accessible to the public en masse and gave it back to them in bold simplicity, headline style.

I imagine the art school Shrigleys of the world are hated for tapping into popular culture and banging out cheap and quick art while their fellow students are stood agonizing over their craft, and then being held up against the classics or seminal pieces in the same medium. Meanwhile Shrigley is being judged against the doodlers of the world. Essentially he's a daydreamer fortunate enough to make a living from showing people the product of his weekly chuckles to himself.

[peet]

Wow, I'm really upset that I missed this.

Fear not, I just upped it to a certain torrent site :-)

[lazyhour]

Aw man.  I kiss you, peet.

[splattermac]

I rub you 'till you bleed

[susie]

Anyone else disappointed by this? Does Shrigley have rich parents? Watching this program made me understand how the moaners in General Discussion feel after a one night stand.

Nobody who saw the 'Bird Flu Will Kill Us All' piece seemed to understand what he was trying to say, so for all his protestations that art should be paired down to a simple message, that there is no need to hide behind 'good craft', he couldn't actually bring it upon himself to project against London, 'You All Believe The Headlines'.

Was he being intentionally, a bit thick? His appearance on Newsnight Review was embarrassing. He was talking about how the constant presence of a camera made him feel that he was back at college with a tutor constantly asking him, "Why are you doing that?" It's a shame he hasn't learned to do that for himself. His first  idea seemed to be the one he plumped for without any self critique, and that's fine if that was the point to his art; that he was reacting like the masses to a first thought after reading a headline, but that wasn't the point, was it? To see him getting bored, and to run out of ideas, four-fifths of the way through the week, was disappointing. As disappointing as his inane questioning of the two professionals (which he is meant to be) at the beginning of the program.

It was an interesting idea, but he could have but a bit more effort in. Is it a BBC series called 'Spin', or just his own pet project?

Armando Iannucci's Gash was better!
;-)

Peet: Thanks for the upload!

[splattermac]

If he has rich parents (and he's from Macclesfield which is near a posh village call Pott Shrigley, coincidence?) does that add extra weight to cheapening his already cheapy art? The idea what money isn't an issue so off you go son and dabble with what you fancy, oh the privilege! That works for me, I dislike him already just on hearsay, I'd really hate him if he just spent his time on skiing and beach holidays and Hooray-Henrying around though so I prefer that if he is rich he at least has a creative outlet :)

You've made me doubt myself but I thought the majority of people throughout the program got the meaning behind his attention seeking and that's good enough for me. Are the childlike qualities of his work a product of his nice-but-dim demeanor? Or are we just reading him as dim because he has a tortoise-like delivery of his thoughts?

I like the everyman appeal of his work, it's like Baptist's viral mong (odd grouping of words) of Gary Glitter doing the email rounds, a cheeky bit of fun. Same with that moonfaced comedian who's name escapes me that was behind those funny newspaper ads that I must have emailed to me in triplicate from different corners of the globe.

I think Spin was just the media looking at its headlines for a weeks worth of programs and Shrigley's piece was one of the contributions.

I can't comment on Gash having never heard of it but giz a lend ;)

[susie]

If he has rich parents (and he's from Macclesfield which is near a posh village call Pott Shrigley, coincidence?) does that add extra weight to cheapening his already cheapy art?

You could be right there, but not in a way which particularly flatters Shrigley!

The idea what money isn't an issue so off you go son and dabble with what you fancy, oh the privilege! That works for me, I dislike him already just on hearsay, I'd really hate him if he just spent his time on skiing and beach holidays and Hooray-Henrying around though so I prefer that if he is rich he at least has a creative outlet :)

I don't begrudge him having access to his father's wealth, it's the fact that he has such great resources at his disposable, but is too lazy to really make use of them. At least in my opinion. Also, I don't wish to see him without a creative outlet, but that doesn't mean that what he produces is worth having a television program made about it.

You've made me doubt myself but I thought the majority of people throughout the program got the meaning behind his attention seeking and that's good enough for me. Are the childlike qualities of his work a product of his nice-but-dim demeanor? Or are we just reading him as dim because he has a tortoise-like delivery of his thoughts?

Well, I judged him being a bit dim by his actions in the program, and by how successful I thought his artwork was. I guess I was disappointed because I liked that music video you posted a link to. I found it quite humorous and was looking forward to seeing how he came upon the finished work. However, after seeing the program, I can't help but feel there was a lot of luck involved. ;)

I like the everyman appeal of his work, it's like Baptist's viral mong (odd grouping of words) of Gary Glitter doing the email rounds, a cheeky bit of fun.

Well, yes, I accept that. I guess with all this talk about ART, I expected a bit more depth. I mean Baptist's picture is a lot more successful than any of Shrigley's work in the film, yet he isn't having television programs made about him. (Maybe he is, I don't know!)

I can't comment on Gash having never heard of it but giz a lend ;)

Sorry, I don't have any recordings of it. It was a nightly live? comedy show with Armando Iannucci chairing a discussion with a couple of other comedians about the days news. There were mongs on it, which looked like they had been stolen from B3ta. It wasn't very funny, and didn't last very long!

[lazyhour]

I've watched it now.  It was an enjoyable programme, but the number of fucking idiots who didn't bother to think for two seconds about what each work actually meant was genuinely dismaying.  And we in Britain pat ourselves on the back at how fucking 'savvy' we are.  Are we bollocks.

Anyway, I didn't like some of what Shrigley came up with in this, and I think it was a flawed and disappointing exercise.  It didn't seem like the kind of thing Shrigley is particularly into, either.  He is not a political satirist, he is a strange, silly artist, doing low-key, personal, odd drawings and photos.  Feh, I still adore his books.  And some of his work has really really stuck with me, and it pops into my head a lot.

I can't find a picture of it, but there's one page in one of his books which features a conversation written down:

Try not to shake so much
I'm trying
Well try harder
I'm trying but it's really difficult
How long have you been shaking?
All my life
That's sad. I wish there was something I could do for you.

Yeah, I'm sure it means nothing typed out here, but to me it's a thing of beauty, humour and tragedy.  God, I hate trying to say why I think something's so great.

Pictures.

[susie]

For those who want to know more about the Cremaster Cycle, next weeks Art Safari on BBC2 on Wednesday 7th December 2320 - 0020, is about Matthew Barney.

[George]

heyhey! David Shrigley and Mathew Barney mentioned in the same thread! When did you lot get so arty eh?

Sorry, I've been in drowning in Korea of late and cannae get to the pooter for love nor honey.

Shrigley is my doubletake, onanism has never seemed so uncanny (give or take a loughton candidate or two)




http://www.cremaster.net/

[George]

Was he being intentionally, a bit thick? His appearance on Newsnight Review was embarrassing. He was talking about how the constant presence of a camera made him feel that he was back at college with a tutor constantly asking him, "Why are you doing that?" It's a shame he hasn't learned to do that for himself...self critique... but that wasn't the point, was it?

There's a myth surrounding the man and his motif for want of a better word. The story goes that Shriggers was in his second year of site specific 'social sculpture' and he was getting a bit bored with it all. Late one evening he returned to his studio (a cheap and tiny council lockup garage) only to find that it had been vandalised by the local scrotterati and was so impressed by what lay before him that he decided to sever any links with the ideas he had generated on the course. He is said to have adopted a cynicism towards the course - seeing it as a form of condescending, hypocritical and patronising social work.

The other (and far more interesting) factor of this intervention was that these kids daubed his canvases and sculpture with nonsensical, chavish grafitti that made him aware of his (then) slavish attempts at  perfecting a motif of sorts, making them quite literally the lowest common demoninator among the stolen, burned-out Capris,bashed up Tesco trollies and pish stained tramp-harlots. If this bollox is to believed (or at least has a grain of truth in it) then it doth explain the man, the work, and the no-nothing-naiive-nihilism that is David Shrigley.

Me, I like him full stop and I'm peeved I missed the prog. He's a fucking gem.

[susie]

Can you download Bit Torrents where you are? That's how we got to see the program.

Are there any pictures of the vandalised or 're-worked' artwork? In fact, are there any pictures of his early work, from before his enlightenment?

He is not a political satirist, he is a strange, silly artist, doing low-key, personal, odd drawings and photos.  Feh, I still adore his books.

Yeah, his books are pretty good. After a good trawl around his site, and your post, I can appreciate more what he is doing, but like you, I find the work in the program even more unsatisfying, now. Do you have any of his books, Lazyhour? Are they hand made, expensive pieces, or are they professionally printed?

[splattermac]

So Shrigley is chav-primative? Interesting pinch of salt story :)

Nope, they are cheapo quality books and vary in size but are mainly pocketable. I think there are a couple in Magma if you want a peruse, I think I even bought one from Borders.

I wanted to put '+ torrent' in the thread title but are they forbidden across the site even though it's not something that's commercially available?

[susie]

Yeah, I wouldn't put it in the title.

I'll have a look in Magma. I haven't been there for a while. I Like to ask questions, and i don't think they know what to do with me. Last time I went in, I had the baby and pram with me, and they looked awfully shocked.
I should have stood in the doorway spraying 'cute character' graffiti onto canvasses. ;)

Is Marmalade Magazine still going, I haven't seen it for a while?

(I got the DVD, thanks, I shall watch it tonight!)

[splattermac]

I have Marmalade on subscription so every couple of months I email them to ask if I've missed any issues. I don't know when my subscription runs out and I suspect they don't either :)

If you have a fiver burning a hole in your pocket then try a DVD magazine called Specialten. Not sure if you'll get it in Magma but it's a good excuse to go to Pelicaneck Records to pick it up. Pelicaneck shares it's space with Oklahoma veggie café and I recommend a sit down and a lovely roast sweet potato with veg curry and chutney. No chance of getting your knees under one of their stupid tables though.

I know what you mean about the Magma staff. I've only spoken to one normal one who was chatty about music and other times they've looked at me with the eyes of strange deep sea fishes.

[George]

Can you download Bit Torrents where you are? That's how we got to see the program.

No, well yes it's just a matter of overcoming the language barrier in translating the korean techy parlance into english layman's. I've only been here a month now, give us a chance. 려차 ㅏㅜㅐㅈㄴ ㅑㄹ ㅑ ㅏㅜㅐㅈ

Are there any pictures of the vandalised or 're-worked' artwork? In fact, are there any pictures of his early work, from before his enlightenment?

Anecdotal photo documentation...now there's a piece in itself! Like I said, it's a story, but I head it in my second year along with all the others such as him being discovered by his (now) agent in a Glasgow pub doodling on a beer mat (not disimilar to that bohemian Lucian Freud story too). Meh.  

Do you have any of his books, Lazyhour? Are they hand made, expensive pieces, or are they professionally printed?

The early stuff was just made using a photocopier at the college library and given away at gigs and Job centres (yep, another anecdote). But if you can get hold of the officially unpublished early stuff (2 months post degree) then I suggest you hold onto it until the antiques raodshow 2020 rolls into town.

I'm off now to eat dog and noodles.

[susie]

No, well yes it's just a matter of overcoming the language barrier in translating the korean techy parlance into english layman's. I've only been here a month now, give us a chance. ?? ????? ?? ? ????

rlyoh cha a oo ae juh nuh ya rl ya a oo ae juh  ???

Apart from the first two syllables, you're missing quite a few characters!

Do you have any of his books, Lazyhour? Are they hand made, expensive pieces, or are they professionally printed?

The early stuff was just made using a photocopier at the college library and given away at gigs and Job centres (yep, another anecdote). But if you can get hold of the officially unpublished early stuff (2 months post degree) then I suggest you hold onto it until the antiques raodshow 2020 rolls into town.

Ah, okay. I'll ask around the artist book scene, and see if anyone has any. I had a quick Google last night, and I see that said scene has grown a lot bigger in the last couple of years. There even seems to be an International Artists Book Fair in Seoul, now! There's not a lot of info on the web (tiny bit here), but it seems to be every June if you're still in Korea next year?

[George]

rlyoh cha a oo ae juh nuh ya rl ya a oo ae juh  ???

Beam me up.

[splattermac]

to quote Ged from the Radio Times thread.

Finally, tonight's "Imagine" is on Chuck Close - BBC1 @ 22:40 - 23:45

For 40 years Chuck Close has painted only heads. His vast portraits have made him one of America's greatest living artists. But his success has been built on terrible adversity. As a child, his severe undiagnosed dyslexia had him written off as a failure, and a catastrophic stroke in 1988 left him partially paralysed. Chuck Close readily admits 'art saved my life'. Chuck Close's latest self portrait is the star exhibit at an exhibition at the National Portrait Gallery. Alan Yentob went to New York to meet the man who has single-handedly reinvented the portrait, and to follow the creative process involved in his latest work.

Chucky boy is a photoshop filter. He interprets photographs into individually painted tiles as you can see below.  If you see 'chuck close' appear in your adobe filters menu don't click it, you could be there for months waiting for it to render.

[peet]

Looks interesting, I might record it again, for posterity like.

[splattermac]

Did you cap it in the end Peet? I'm just downloading it as a keepsake from UKnova having watched the show and I'm wondering if you upped it. I had a good little time to myself last night, watched both the Art Safari programs and then Imagine. I'm full of the cold so I don't have a lot to say other than.

How creepy was Gregor Schneider ( http://tinyurl.com/ccfgm ) the German Mark Hamill look-alike from the first Art Safari program? I think he's already gone over to the darkside! There were about three instances where the interviewer asked him a question and he appeared to drift off into some sort of internal Norman Bates 'what shall I tell him mother?' dialogue before the uncomfortable silence made the interviewer move on. I remember years ago finding a really interesting website about bland photography (I think it was Swedish) and it looked surprisingly difficult to take an aesthetically pleasing sterile shot of the mundane. Sadly I can't retrace my steps to it but I'm sure if I investigated some of the artist's names that got a mention I might find it again. I find open doors quite unsettling so it was interesting to see Gregor's work compared to Vilhelm Hammershoi http://tinyurl.com/8qcs3 . I'd have a bit of a Larry Grayson turn if I came face to face with that painting.

Others mentioned were
Gordon Matta-Clark http://tinyurl.com/8nlj6
Thomas Ruff http://tinyurl.com/8hnwt
Jörg Sasse http://tinyurl.com/axvs8

- -

I enjoyed the Barney docu but it didn't really reveal anything more than a good google. Barney himself came across a lot more coherent that I was expecting. I suppose I'll have to wait to see if renewed interest in his work means there will be a UK screening of the films, or at least his latest piece with Bjork http://tinyurl.com/8w8nr .

- -

Chuck Close in a word was inspirational! I saw one of his in Sydney back in 99 (it might even still be on display) and this photo doesn't do it justice. Everyone who walked past it initially thought it was a photograph before stepping towards the brushstrokes and revelation!

[sproggy]

I hate to think what sort of childhood that Schnieder chap had.  Probably involved windowless rooms, filthy corners and locked doors .

I enjoyed the Barney docu but it didn't really reveal anything more than a good google. Barney himself came across a lot more coherent that I was expecting. I suppose I'll have to wait to see if renewed interest in his work means there will be a UK screening of the films, or at least his latest piece with Bjork http://tinyurl.com/8w8nr .

He did come across as relatively normal, if a little obsessive.  I forget exactly what the interviewer said to Barney, but did you notice he also 'did a Schneider' near the end of the program when asked an awkward question.

Are all influential artists closet psychopaths?

[George]

Are all influential artists closet psychopaths?

That's artistic license that is.

Re: Close, it's a real shame that the cannon percieves him to be an easy read, much like roy lichtenstein, because his work isn't just atomic facsimile, it's somehow self critical and hermetic. I must admit that his 70's stuff had a sterile air about it but now (and after his medical probs) the man is producing some of his best work albeit a bit polished. I'm reminded of De Kooning for some reason (perhaps because of a similar body-over-mind predicament).

[splattermac]

Normally if you whack an artist's name you don't recognize in google images you might recognize one of this works. This bloke, "Santiago Sierra", no idea!

Art Safari BBC4 Thursday 15th to find out more.

A quick flirt around his website suggests conceptual, political, humorous and most importantly pretentious :)
http://www.santiago-sierra.com/200112_1024.htm

If you look at the entitling of his work.

paying for art

11 PAID TO LEARN A PHRASE
10-INCH LINE SHAVED ON THE HEADS OF TWO JUNKIES WHO RECEIVED A SHOT OF HEROIN AS PAYMENT

then measurement work

120 HOURS OF CONTINUOUS READING OF A TELEPHONE BOOK
300 TONS
200 LITRES OF WATER FROM THE DEAD SEA

Also featuring on the same night but at the earlier time of 7pm on BBC2 you have the Culture show

For the last show of 2005, Verity Sharp presents highlights of the past 12 months in art, film, books, performance and music.

[fanny splendid]

For those, like me, who can't receive BBC4, Art Safari has appeared at UKNova.

[splattermac]

Blimey, they came down at over 250kbps. In the space of an advert break I have two new things to watch. Torrents are quite an incredible advance in downloading really.

I'm a bit confused because I've been recording the Art Safari programs to burn on to my DVD recorder as a keepsake and I thought the first episode was Gregor and the second was Matty B. Now this suggests it's Wim and Santi. Must be a crossover in series.

I'm glad you pointed this out because I've not seen the Wim one.

Wim famous for his viral x-ray (not safe for work unless you work in a hospital)
http://www.artnet.com/artwork_images_294_70756_Wim-Delvoye.jpg

[fanny splendid]

Bah! He could have put a cartoon bone in there!

There were two episodes on BBC2 the week before the Matthew Barney episode.

One was about the artist Maurizio Cattelan, who I think you'ld like, Splattermac. One of my favourite pieces by him is a black marble monument, in the style of post-war memorial, but instead of the names of the dead, he's inscribed every football match that England have ever lost.