Alan Moore knows the score.

[Mr Flunchy]

http://filmforce.ign.com/articles/496/496206p1.html

"Some fans have been upset by the changes and choices made by the filmmakers, not the least of which was transforming blond Brit John Constantine into black-haired American Keanu Reeves. And unlike the comics, Constantine takes place in Los Angeles rather than England.

The filmmakers have countered these criticisms by saying their aim is to be truer to the spirit of the comic book rather than to its details. But we're told that Alan Moore doesn't agree with them. Really, really doesn't agree with them.

Bristlehound advised us that, upon reviewing the script and casting of Constantine, "Moore has done the unthinkable. He's washed his hands of the entire debacle. That's right – he's instructed (DC Comics) to not credit him as the creator of the character. And putting his money where his mouth is, he has instructed that the royalties that he was splitting with his co-creators goes exclusively to the artists (Rick Veitch and Stephen Bissette). ... Often we hear about an artist upset that his creation has been butchered but this is the first I can recall where the creator asked that both name and money be rejected.

Ah.. Alan Moore, what a guy.  Unfortunately this might mean that the rumoured Watchmen film directed by David Hayter might not go ahead, unfortunate, but well, it was probably going to do a disservice to the book anyway.   He hasn't had much luck so far with film adaptations of his work, but if he was willing to accept money for LXG, then Constantine must be quite shockingly bad.

What Moore books have other VW read?  I think I've read most of the major ones, and I've just finished League of Extraordinary Gentlemen Vol. 2, which I enjoyed greatly.  There's something about the idea of Mr. Hyde raping the Invisible man that tickles me just right.

[Santa's Boyfriend]

Ah.. Alan Moore, what a guy.  Unfortunately this might mean that the rumoured Watchmen film directed by David Hayter might not go ahead, unfortunate, but well, it was probably going to do a disservice to the book anyway.   He hasn't had much luck so far with film adaptations of his work, but if he was willing to accept money for LXG, then Constantine must be quite shockingly bad.

I suspect that this is the culmination of things that have happened recently.  Alan Moore is not an unreasonable man judging from the people I know that have met him or know him.  I think that this is due partly to the sheer butchery they made of From Hell, reducing an epic, sweeping drama into a pretty poor whodunnit.  Followed by the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, which had very little in common with the book save the title and the presence of (some of) the characters.  I know that the treatment of the League really pissed him off, and I think he's trying to block any attempt at a sequel.

In principle I don't think he had anything against films being made of his work.  I think he's simply come to the conclusion that Hollywood producers are shit-throwing monkeys that don't understand anything about storytelling.  And when you think about it, for a man as principled and as sensitive as Alan Moore, it's probably the only conclusion he could have made after those two films.  After that, reading that they're taking things even further with Constantine, are people really suprised that he's withdrawn his support?

EDIT:  I hope the Watchmen film doesn't go ahead.  Terry Gilliam, when he was up for directing it, famously asked Alan Moore in person how he would convert it into a film.  His reply was "To be honest Terry, I wouldn't."  Terry Gilliam's feeling is that the only way to make it work is to make it into a big-budget tv series.  This is my feeling as well, and looking at how successful Band of Brothers was, I think might actually be feasable.  But it isn't going to happen.

[king mob]

The full story


Its a wee bit more than what was quoted, nice to see Totleben getting some money out of it as hes been having a really hard time of things.

[Mister Six]

I don't know if Mobby's linked to the Gaimanblog there, but Gaiman says that Moore refuses money on all of his movie adaptations, ever since some sod claimedthat the LoEG comic was created solely to get movies made. Moore hasn't even read the script.

Sounds like some cheeky chap's seen a chance to undermine the Constantine movie with a half-truth.

[king mob]

I dont think anyone can undermine the Constantine film more than the people making it.

One person whos been quiet so far is Garth Ennis who's storyline the film uses.

[Mister Six]

Probably keeping schtum so as not to upset any Hollywood types. Ellis was oddly nice about the Keanu casting himself.

Personally I reckon this might be an okay film... just a shit Hellblazer movie.

[kidsick5000]

I hate (well, not hate but something close to it) that attitude of Oh this is great, it would make a great film. Especially comic books. Especially Alan Moore comic books. This isnt some snobbish thing. its just that when people say 'that' they are only considering 2 or three scenes that would be great.

Not everything translates into another medium, just because it is a story. Its like one of those great tales you hear down the pub. Try writing it down. more often than not, it loses momentum, style, energy etc.
Likewise, Radio doesnt always translate into TV.

Thats not to say that comics shouldnt make the transition. Obviously, some are great Superman, Batman, Spidey. There has been so many diffrent versions and incarnations in the comics over the years that gives license to chnage some fringe aspects. They have been rendered both deeply cerebral and bog standard punch-fight-quip -knock-building-over.

Alan Moores stuff taken on the crebral side of things and lends itself to one style of story. With Hellblazer, you dont really get the kids edition. He doesnt advertise hostess twinkies etc.

The big problem with the film, which could have turned out to be wank anyway, is the Keanu thing. Constantine, is a cynic. And Keanu just dont do cynical. There is no aspect of Keanu that is even slightly cynical.
Hes just going to meander round the screen looking non-plussed. like usual.

But who knows. Prehaps it will stand on its own merits. Though I think we all know the answer to that.

Alan Moore has done something very commendable, if just a bit  useless.

[bill hicks]

I hate (well, not hate but something close to it) that attitude of Oh this is great, it would make a great film. Especially comic books. Especially Alan Moore comic books. This isnt some snobbish thing. its just that when people say 'that' they are only considering 2 or three scenes that would be great.

Not everything translates into another medium, just because it is a story. Its like one of those great tales you hear down the pub. Try writing it down. more often than not, it loses momentum, style, energy etc.
Likewise, Radio doesnt always translate into TV.

Thats not to say that comics shouldnt make the transition. Obviously, some are great Superman, Batman, Spidey. There has been so many diffrent versions and incarnations in the comics over the years that gives license to chnage some fringe aspects. They have been rendered both deeply cerebral and bog standard punch-fight-quip -knock-building-over.

Alan Moores stuff taken on the crebral side of things and lends itself to one style of story. With Hellblazer, you dont really get the kids edition. He doesnt advertise hostess twinkies etc.

The big problem with the film, which could have turned out to be wank anyway, is the Keanu thing. Constantine, is a cynic. And Keanu just dont do cynical. There is no aspect of Keanu that is even slightly cynical.
Hes just going to meander round the screen looking non-plussed. like usual.

But who knows. Prehaps it will stand on its own merits. Though I think we all know the answer to that.

Alan Moore has done something very commendable, if just a bit  useless.

I don't know, From Hell made a fair stab at getting as much as it could into two hours. Many have said it's rubbish, but only compared to the original comic book (and what the hell isn't rubbish compared to From Hell?), I found it to be a decent enough translation of the story and pretty good horror pic.

What I especially liked about it was that they got the key scene of the book (albeit in a truncated form) into the film, where Gull explains some of the occultist secrets of London.

As for Hellblazer.

Actually I won't bother wasting time thinking about it. Although John Simm wouldn't be bad for Constantine.

[king mob]

Warren Ellis has managed to grab himself a copy of the script for Constantine though dubious means & will be giving his opinion later this week.

Should be fun as its sounding really, really bad.

[bill hicks]

Hehe. Always good to hear Warren Ellis ranting. I shall be looking for that.

[Mr Flunchy]

I'm feeling slightly guilty at the moment as I've just discovered how to read comics on my PC..  Yeah, I know, I know, but I'm a poor student whose only extravagance is a broadband connection and I've got to do something.  

I've just worked my way through the Invisibles, (which was fucking be-autiful), Alan Moore's Swamp Thing and The Killing Joke. I read the last volume of the Invisibles last night while sitting naked in the dark, listening to Leftfield and tripping on magic mushrooms...

It Feels Good.

[jutl]

The full story


Its a wee bit more than what was quoted, nice to see Totleben getting some money out of it as hes been having a really hard time of things.

Although I respect Neil Gaiman as a writer, I have to say that if that web-site had been the first work of his I had ever seen, it would also have been the last.

[king mob]

I'm feeling slightly guilty at the moment as I've just discovered how to read comics on my PC..  Yeah, I know, I know, but I'm a poor student whose only extravagance is a broadband connection and I've got to do something.  

I've just worked my way through the Invisibles, (which was fucking be-autiful), Alan Moore's Swamp Thing and The Killing Joke. I read the last volume of the Invisibles last night while sitting naked in the dark, listening to Leftfield and tripping on magic mushrooms...

It Feels Good.

Sorry to sound like a kiljoy but a couple of friends of mine worked on the Invisibles & i know one is rather upset over his work being downloaded & he wont recieve a penny because of it.
John Totleban (Swampy artist) is nearly bankrupt because of being shafted over payments of past work & illness, sorry to make it sound like a sob story but apart from a few creators its a hard slog for people to maintain a living from working in comics & its a bit galling for some to see their work being downloaded for free.
I appreciate your skint but the collections are well priced & theres dealers who offer individual issues cheap.

As for the Gaiman site its a bit pish really.

Ellis is brewing a storm about this script from all accounts, i'll post his review as soon as.

[Mr Flunchy]

Oh don't worry, I fully intend to buy the books when I get my next loan, downloading them isn't the same as properly holding the paper in my hands.

Although it does strike me as somewhat ironic that the writers of a comic about anarchy are complaining when I steal their work, but hey I guess everyone has to eat.

[king mob]

Oh don't worry, I fully intend to buy the books when I get my next loan, downloading them isn't the same as properly holding the paper in my hands.

Although it does strike me as somewhat ironic that the writers of a comic about anarchy are complaining when I steal their work, but hey I guess everyone has to eat.

Its not the writers, Grant couldnt care less as hes a millionaire now but its the others who suffer, i dont mind downloading if it does lead to buying the books/issues so the people that are suffering because of lost incomes can benefit & stay working in the industry.

Theres no irony, its a job to people & its really hard for some to make ends meet, thats the reality.

[Mr Flunchy]

Gotcha.

How does the royalty system for these comics work then, I thought artists were paid a fixed amount for each issue.  Is it done by a system of royalties?   Also, just because I'm curious, what did your friend do on the Invisibles?

[Benny J. Fish]

Mr Ellis, he say in the latest Bad Signal -

* I got a hold of a copy of what looks
to be the final draft of the
CONSTANTINE script. Oh boy. It
was obtained through nefarious
means, and I've since passed it back,
so I can't pass it on, sorry. But I am
going to write about it this week.

* Further to that, Tilda Swinton
just got back in touch, so I'm looking
forward to finding out how shooting
CONSTANTINE went.

[king mob]

Gotcha.

How does the royalty system for these comics work then, I thought artists were paid a fixed amount for each issue.  Is it done by a system of royalties?   Also, just because I'm curious, what did your friend do on the Invisibles?

Mark Buckingham drew the thing along with a few others i know & i know Morrison from years back.

Payment depends thesedays, on titles like JLA or Avengers its generally a flat rate with no sell on or royality clause(thats changed now for reprints in trade paperbacks where the writer/artist gets something regardless), however creator owned titles are different theres always a royalty clause & its quite high compared to the flat rate.
Its not just creator owned properties that have this clause, Brian Bendis & Mark Millar have made a nice little mint out of the Ultimate line & the reptrints in trade format.

Thats fine for a elite few but the majority of people working in the industry have a hellish slog to make money & find it hard to maintain being a comic creator as their sole job.even though they'd love to.
Problem is that the industry can either grow or collapse as it stands right now, its on a cusp & it really depends on how long the current interest in comics last.With things like the new Spidey film & a Batman film thats shaping up to be sheer class that should keep interest up for a few years yet.

[Mr Flunchy]

Okey doke, well, I'll post a picture of me with my shiny new Invisibles books in a few weeks - thanks for the info.

[king mob]

Okey doke, well, I'll post a picture of me with my shiny new Invisibles books in a few weeks - thanks for the info.

I'll tell Mark that he should expect some royalties soon ;)