Dark Souls 2 (should I bother?)

[Rush Goalie]

You've hardly scratched the surface yet, it has such variety of settings and mechanics and quirky systems, I hope you manage to enjoy its uniqueness. It's brave in a way that no other FROM game has been since. The streamlining of DS3 and ER explains why I feel virtually nothing for either. They're great games, no question, but completely lacking in identity, personality or thematic richness. They feel like a series of neatly polished, well-worn tropes and recycled assets. Give me the puzzling ambitions of DS2 or Demon's any day. I would say Bloodborne is the only time they've achieved an essentially perfect execution, but I killed it running a dozen different builds and can never go back.

[Schlippy]

It's the worst of the series by a fair margin but still a reasonable 7/10 overall, I reckon. Looks like ass a lot of the time (especially in some of the opening areas), has weird floaty movement and crappy rolls, ADP is bullshit etc. etc. but it's still got something, and the dlc / scholar edition go some way to mitigating the worst problems of the base edition.

If you enjoyed the rest of the series you'll get plenty out of it. Stick with it through the opening areas tho, no idea why they put some of the worst stuff up front; the forest of fallen giants is an absolute fucken chore, but by the time you reach the latter half of the game it's pretty much all good (shrine of amana notwithstanding). And the poison swamp in this one is actually pretty fun!

[druss]

I am dumbfounded by the hate that adaptability gets. It's not like there's a magic number that you have to get to. I like to get agility up to 105 but you can go higher for a few extra iframes or not level it at all if your skills are sharp. It's a trade off, the same as every other stat. You get so many extra levels that it doesn't break any builds by having to put a few extra points in adaptability.

When I play it again I might try a low/nonlevelling adaptability run actually.

[Schlippy]

...and you'll see the exactly the problem with ADP doing that. DS2 makes the whole soul level 1 run thing an ordeal because you can't dodge for shit as a low level character. The other games make it based on a function of endurance & equip load, meaning low level toons play absolutely fine as long as you're not wearing Havel's set.

Loved playing my level 1 dickwraith in DS1, literally scores of hours playing PvP and just being a cunt in the 'burg. Gave up on my SL1 run in DS2 after a couple of hours.

[Noodle Lizard]

I got to play a bit today and I'm starting to like it more. It probably helps that I "know" Souls and have been leveling up consistently, but I'm finding it fairly easy so far (whereas I find DS1 incredibly difficult, for whatever reason).

I've done a fair few bosses and I'm up to Lost Bastille now.

[H-O-W-L]

It feels like Dark Souls Gaiden, taking the spirit of the original and displacing it to a dreamlike alternative timeline. The patchwork structure and lack of backtracking makes it feel much less familiar. Where I can run through the entire sequence of Dark Souls in my mind, this feels like flickering fragmented memories of a journey. This ties beautifully to the disparate themes of dementia and affirming one's own narrative.

this is it

[H-O-W-L]

Just remembered a Dark Souls 2 USP: npc invaders, particularly in the DLC. By far the best and most creative, weirdly abandoned after this game as none of their future games have had anyone as good as Maldren the assassin (and others, but he is the star).

Hell, fuck that, there were boss invaders in DS2! My favorite boss in the series is still the Looking Glass Knight just because of that mechanic; the invaders through the mirror. It's so cool and the LGK gets unfair shit for being "just a dude in armor". It's a cool dude in armor ya shites.

[druss]

I'm finding it fairly easy so far

I look forward to hearing about your experience with the frigid outskirts...

Lost Bastille is a good, nicely fucked up area. Like an expanded undead asylum.

[Thursday]

I look forward to hearing about your experience with the frigid outskirts...

Well that's pretty much the last optional thing to do, so not something to worry about.

[Thursday]

Even though I wouldn't argue that DS2 has the worst feeling combat... I kind of like it more than the direction they went with 3... and Elden Ring to an extent although that extended it to make it more interesting.

DS2 is closer to the DS1 or Demon's Souls style combat, 3 to me feels like an unhappy middle ground between Dark Souls and Bloodborne. DS3 is obviously smoother and more responsive, but I don't think that works so well for Dark Souls. Instead of dodging, you're rolling about, which looks very silly. It doesn't make sense to be rolling around like a twat at the speed you can do, especially when you're likely to be in fairly heavy armor. The game becomes much more about timing and reflexes and rather than tactics and patience that gets you through earlier Souls games.

[Noodle Lizard]

I'm starting to "get" the appeal of the slower combat, making it an almost turn-based affair in some of the boss fights. What I can't get on board with is the slow Estus animation, especially with enemies that love to close the distance.

I got up to Iron Keep and am now being skill-checked. Finally managed to clear the mobs and met the Smelter Demon, only to realise my Fire Longsword barely even tickles him. Off to explore some other areas first.

The Ruins Sentinels gave me some grief until I stopped getting greedy and used the platforms to my advantage, and the scorpion lady bizarrely kept getting me on her last bit of health. I liked the Lost Sinner fight, but there are some real honkers in here too (Royal Rat Vanguard, Covetous Demon, Skeleton Lords). Still having a good time, though.

[druss]

Skeleton lords gets a pass from me for being metal as fuck. Love Lost Sinner and Ruin Sentinels. Covetous Demon is basically a mini boss, he rightly gets a lot of shit as being a rubbish proper boss but without the title card and fog door he would have been received much better I think.

[Noodle Lizard]

I'd seen talk of the Covetous Demon, but I couldn't remember if it was in terms of it being a bullshit difficult boss or not. Not, as it happens.

The run-up to Smelter Demon is terrible, though, bit of a sharp difficulty spike there. I'm looking into options for a new weapon to upgrade from my Fire Longsword. I just acquired the Claymore, and that's always done me proud in the other games, but I'm open to suggestions. My build is entirely melee; 25 Str with 15 or so Dex.

[The Crumb]

The run-up to Smelter Demon is terrible, though, bit of a sharp difficulty spike there. I'm looking into options for a new weapon to upgrade from my Fire Longsword. I just acquired the Claymore, and that's always done me proud in the other games, but I'm open to suggestions. My build is entirely melee; 25 Str with 15 or so Dex.

If you're not wedded to a shield, definitely get into dual wielding. One of DS2's innovations is proper dual wielding. If you have 1.5x the required stats for weapons you can have one in each hand and hold Y/Triangle to power stance. This lets you kill things ridiculously quickly. Why have one claymore when you can have two.

You might be relieved to know that Iron Keep section is something of a notorious difficulty peak and most of the game is not that irritating.

[Noodle Lizard]

I've had a shield equipped the whole time, but I'm using it less and less. Parrying has been very useful occasionally, though, like those Pursuer and Alonne Knights.

I don't think I quite have the stats to power stance yet, but I might give it a go if all else fails. For now, I'm just going to go for a bigger AR. Claymore, because I'm boring, or maybe I'll trade in one of my boss souls for a weapon.

[Schlippy]

What I can't get on board with is the slow Estus animation, especially with enemies that love to close the distance.

The game gives you a merchant early on that sells infinite lifegems, slow heal-over-time consumables that pop quickly then tick up slowly for 20 seconds or so. Toggling between the two, using the lifegems for a quick HoT and only using estus for a fuller heal when you have the breathing room to do so, is crucial for getting on board with the rhythm of DS2 combat, IMO.

You can still move while popping lifegems, too, super useful in the midst of combat.

[Noodle Lizard]

The game gives you a merchant early on that sells infinite lifegems, slow heal-over-time consumables that pop quickly then tick up slowly for 20 seconds or so. Toggling between the two, using the lifegems for a quick HoT and only using estus for a fuller heal when you have the breathing room to do so, is crucial for getting on board with the rhythm of DS2 combat, IMO.

You can still move while popping lifegems, too, super useful in the midst of combat.

Yes, I've been using the lifegems plenty! My complaint with the Estus is more that it can needlessly break the flow of combat, which is often a bit stilted as it is. The lifegems aren't so useful when you're being ganked or within one boss hit from being bodied, so having to run pretty far away in order to spend a couple of seconds banging an Estus is a bit tedious.

One of my favourite things to overcome in the later games was learning to heal right in a boss's face, which was a big breakthrough in teaching my newbie friend how to play Elden Ring, as he used to essentially pause the fight by running to the other side of the arena to heal. Now I find myself having to do that out of necessity in DS2.

I am enjoying it, though. I've been getting to grips with the Claymore and finding it much more efficient for this portion of the game. I just made my way down to The Rotten and, surprisingly, didn't hate it nearly as much as I would've expected from a pitch-black platforming section with projectile poison in a Souls game.

[druss]

The Gutter is a pretty fun level. Best thing I can say about black gulch is that it's short... The Rotten is great to farm with bonfire Ascetics if you're ever feeling like some degenerate over levelling (or for skipping half the game in ng+ if you ever get to that point).

This thread is really making me want to start a new playthrough... might try a no shield run but with a parrying dagger, just started a new run through of the Demon's Souls remake and picking the knight and using his mail breaker to parry is some of the most fun I've had with the game. For some reason it's impossible to verify the parry timings in DeS unlike all the other games but the mail breaker seems to have a pretty generous parry window. Feels a little more realistic using a sword to parry as although it feels badass, parrying with a shield in real life seems very unlikely to do anything. 

[Noodle Lizard]

If the Souls games are anything to go by, being parried by a shield quite literally blows your mind and brings you to your knees, incapacitated and in awe.

[druss]

If the Souls games are anything to go by, being parried by a shield quite literally blows your mind and brings you to your knees, incapacitated and in awe.

I will try in real life and report back.

Really enjoying your updates, really emphasises for me what a love/hate relationship ship I have with DS2. Another feather in the cap for 2 over 3 that I have just discovered in preparation for a parrying dagger trilogy run is the bizarre decision in Dark Souls 3 to have your bare fist have the same amount of parry frames as the parrying dagger. Only shields have higher parry frames so there's zero advantage in using a parrying dagger over bare fists. How stupid. Elden Ring rectifies this, thankfully (although there are still fewer parry frames for the dagger than other parrying methods bar fists). I wonder if this was a bug that was never patched in DS3.

[Noodle Lizard]

Well, I've skipped Smelter Demon for now as that runback was getting too frustrating. I managed to get to Old Iron King by the skin of my teeth and, luckily, beat him first try. I'd be happy if I never returned to Iron Keep.

I managed the other areas without much hassle though, rarely needing more than one or two attempts on a boss, and now I'm at Drangleic. I had to look up a few things since I kept getting stuck and am too unobservant/stupid to figure out what to do. Looking Glass Knight was fun, although it took me more attempts to get down his corridor than his actual fight.

I've been switching between my Claymore and a bog standard mace, since it seems to do better damage against the overwhelmingly armoured foes the game tends to throw at you. I feel as though I haven't really explored the weapons/builds that are possible, but there's always NG+ for that.

[druss]

There's actually an easy to miss bonfire right by the old iron king which I didn't see on my first playthrough. I was not lucky enough to get him down on my first try so it was a hellish boss run.

Are you now at the shrine of amana? Good luck. Incredibly you are playing a nerfed version but it's still very tricky. Very solid run of areas in terms of quality right to the end of the game now imo, then the excellent dlc, the last of which has one of the best set pieces of a boss fight in all of the games.

[Noodle Lizard]

There's actually an easy to miss bonfire right by the old iron king which I didn't see on my first playthrough. I was not lucky enough to get him down on my first try so it was a hellish boss run.

I got the bonfire, thankfully, otherwise I would've been fighting the King with no Estus and two life gems! I'd never been more grateful to see a bonfire message.

Are you now at the shrine of amana? Good luck. Incredibly you are playing a nerfed version but it's still very tricky. Very solid run of areas in terms of quality right to the end of the game now imo, then the excellent dlc, the last of which has one of the best set pieces of a boss fight in all of the games.

Everything I'd read suggested that SotFS was the more difficult version, with added enemies and such. Is that not the case for all areas?

[druss]

Everything I'd read suggested that SotFS was the more difficult version, with added enemies and such. Is that not the case for all areas?

No, it is for a lot of areas but the original shrine of amana is slightly harder imo. There are some extra enemies in sotfs but they aren't too challenging and some are optional. Between second and third bonfire is the hardest bit, if you get past that you should be fine, but the enemies in the original ds2 have better tracking on their missiles and can even fire at you before you can even see them which makes taking them out at range much more difficult.

You might be fine but I found Shrine of Amana to be the hardest bit in the game so don't worry that the rest of the game will be as hard if you do struggle.

[Noodle Lizard]

You might be fine but I found Shrine of Amana to be the hardest bit in the game so don't worry that the rest of the game will be as hard if you do struggle.

Oh boy. My wife kept coming in to ask who I was shouting "fuck off" at during my visits to Iron Keep. I'll give her an advance warning this time.

[druss]

If you ever do go back to smelter demon I'd advise completely blocking out the sounds he makes. It can be tempting to dodge when he makes a sound but he actually attacks slightly after he makes the sound. When you get the timing of this right he is very predictable, just stick to the standard tactic of only attacking after he has finished an attack and not being greedy and you'll down him soon enough.

Or just go back at the end of the game with a +10 ultra greatsword and make him the smelted demon.

[Noodle Lizard]

If you ever do go back to smelter demon I'd advise completely blocking out the sounds he makes. It can be tempting to dodge when he makes a sound but he actually attacks slightly after he makes the sound. When you get the timing of this right he is very predictable, just stick to the standard tactic of only attacking after he has finished an attack and not being greedy and you'll down him soon enough.

Or just go back at the end of the game with a +10 ultra greatsword and make him the smelted demon.

Hah. He's similar enough to other Souls bosses that I don't think he'd be much of a problem if I wasn't getting absolutely shagged on the way to him every time. I've only managed to try him three times, always without many flasks left. However, upgrading a mace for the Iron King run made dealing with those ganks a lot easier compared to my silly little Fire Longsword, so perhaps I'll give it another go sooner rather than later.

I also did some research and it turns out I've missed a couple of bosses, both of which sound very similar to irritating encounters from other games (Belfry Gargoyles and one of those chariot things). I'll leave them for a while.

[druss]

Chariot boss is actually one of their better gimmick fights, proper tense every time I do it (first phase anyway). Gargoyles are awful and a classic example of Dark Souls 2 difficulty. I like a difficult boss (Malenia for example is probably my favourite in Elden Ring) but only if it's fun to learn. Gargoyles has never been a fun fight for me.

[Schlippy]

I've been switching between my Claymore and a bog standard mace, since it seems to do better damage against the overwhelmingly armoured foes the game tends to throw at you. I feel as though I haven't really explored the weapons/builds that are possible, but there's always NG+ for that.

Strike-based weapons are massively overpowered in DS2 because of the amount of armoured enemies (and bosses) you come up against, as strike lets you basically stunlock anyone in armour. There's a hammer you can get from an environmental puzzle in lost bastille that is just flat-out broken once it's upgraded all the way (think the earliest you can do that without bonfire ascetics is shrine of amana tho).

[Noodle Lizard]

Ooo this Shrine of Amana is bollocks.