Tomb Raper

[Thursday]

It's true, but she wasn't particularly sexualized in the games, it was only the endorsements and promotion that did all that.

[Dead kate moss]

Can't you wank over a powerful female? Isn't she the heroine, the one, (via you), that solves the puzzles, kills the monsters, etc? 'Empowering' is a funny old word, but just cos she's hot don't mean she's not a good 'role model' for a video game character, that have previously been blokes (or foxes, pac-men, etc) 99% of the time.

[Famous Mortimer]

It's true, but she wasn't particularly sexualized in the games, it was only the endorsements and promotion that did all that.

The final reward for getting 1000 / 1000 achievement points in "Tomb Raider: Legend" (an absolutely brilliant game) is to play as Lara, naked.

[chand]

Can't you wank over a powerful female?

Is that a gauntlet being thrown?

[Custard]

Is it ok to wank over Lara if you wank over Pac Man too?

[Mister Six]

Haven't watched the video yet - at work and all that - but there's something awfully nasty about taking a strong, sexually confident female gaming character and tying her origin story (no matter how loosely - I imagine this rape thing is not a recurring feature in the game, or the only aspect of the story that informs her eventualy anti-heroism, but still) to (attempted) sexual assault.

It's a nasty theme that I've seen pop up in other fiction, especially sci-fi/fantasy stuff; this idea that a woman has to 'earn' the right to be a hero or protagonist by suffering, especially in a sexually charged way. The example that springs to mind is the weird backstory that was tagged on (by Kevin Smith?) to The Black Cat, Spider-Man's Catwoman knockoff. Like you can't have a 'bad girl' (both ethically and in terms of sexual confidence) who hasn't endured spot of sexual abuse in her life. See also Catwoman being retrofitted with an abused prostitute backstory by Frank Miller.

I mean, yeah, sure - I've met a few women with histories of sexual abuse (esp. as children) who've grown up to be promiscuous or sexually adventurous, but I don't think that's a good enough reason to let it permeate popular culture.

You don't see this happening to male characters, do you? Indy was never bad-touched by his dad. Batman never got diddled by a priest. I doubt the next Uncharted will explain that Drake was sexually abused by his teachers, and that's why he's now a mouthy, mass-murdering gobshite. The conflicts that affect male heroes and anti-heroes are almost never[nb]Want to say 'never', but... you know.[/nb] sexual. They're avenging dead parents, trying to atone for past sins or, occasionally, just regular guys doing their best in an unfair world. If sex comes into it, they're the ones that have committed the sin, not the victims (Indy seducing a very young Marion, pre Raiders of the Lost Ark, for example).

Lara Croft might not have been overburdened with a lot of depth, but she was at least a tough, cool female character who hadn't had to suffer to earn her hero stripes. Shame that's been lost.

See also: 'Women in Refrigerators'.

[Dead kate moss]

Robin/Nighwing was (arguably) raped in a Batman comic, by a female character. I agree it's out of place in comics that are not strictly adults only (and then it really depends how its handled) and it's not good in Tomb Raider either.  Not watched the footage either, so I don't really know what I'm talking about.

[Cerys]

It's because rape is seen as 'the worst thing that can happen to a woman'[nb]Seriously untrue, but nevertheless a common assertion[/nb].  Therefore any woman who is given a traumatic character development, at least in backstory, is automatically given some kind of sexual threat.  It's a lazy, unimaginative get-out.

[Dead kate moss]

The final reward for getting 1000 / 1000 achievement points in "Tomb Raider: Legend" (an absolutely brilliant game) is to play as Lara, naked.

Research seems to show this isn't true. Can you show me any evidence?

[Still Not George]

Haven't watched the video yet - at work and all that - but there's something awfully nasty about taking a strong, sexually confident female gaming character and tying her origin story (no matter how loosely - I imagine this rape thing is not a recurring feature in the game, or the only aspect of the story that informs her eventualy anti-heroism, but still) to (attempted) sexual assault.

It's a nasty theme that I've seen pop up in other fiction, especially sci-fi/fantasy stuff; this idea that a woman has to 'earn' the right to be a hero or protagonist by suffering, especially in a sexually charged way. The example that springs to mind is the weird backstory that was tagged on (by Kevin Smith?) to The Black Cat, Spider-Man's Catwoman knockoff. Like you can't have a 'bad girl' (both ethically and in terms of sexual confidence) who hasn't endured spot of sexual abuse in her life. See also Catwoman being retrofitted with an abused prostitute backstory by Frank Miller.

I've just made a very similar point elsewhere, which I'll repost here:

"That aside... since when has sexualised violence been an original or daring thing to do? It's a constant theme in almost every medium. The only reason games haven't seen much of it is because until very recently women only existed in games as objects to be rescued and/or transport systems for poorly-rendered tits. Why is it, exactly, that one of the very few long-running game series that features a powerful central female character feels the need to "drop the glamour" by immediately placing that character in danger of being raped? It's not like we haven't seen this before, the same thing happens in seemingly every comparable situation; see comics for a whole slew of examples. When life gets gritty for men, it does so in the form of violence, deprivation, torture, and the disintegration of a settled life; when life gets gritty for women, it does so in the form of an intruding penis.

There's a simple answer to this question, and it's the core of my disgust with Crystal Dynamics: PUBLICITY. Rape drives headlines. Rape pulls in the punters. Rape makes teen boys feel funny in the pants and old ladies shake their heads and then pay up. Rape is a big ol' taboo in a world that hasn't got many left.

None of this is difficult to figure out, but that doesn't mean that using sexualised suffering in this fashion is right. This isn't about the industry "growing up". If Tomb Raider was "growing up", we'd see Lara lose everything, have to confront something about herself that wasn't defined by an easily-portrayed external villain, and then deal with the possibility that maybe the status quo would not be restored at the end of the game. Not "oh she got her smarts and toughness from being beaten and almost raped and murdered by a gang of shitheads". Because of course that's the only place women get smarts and toughness from.

Maybe, just maybe, it'd be nice to have one, just ONE, female character in games whose strength is HER OWN. Not defined by her male parent, or her male minions, or her male advisor, or stemming from her abuse by men. No. HERS. Just like Indiana Jones doesn't get his strength from having been beaten by his parents or kidnapped as a teen. His comes from the combination of his flaws and a sheer wild insistence on coming first. Doesn't Lara deserve the same?"

[Thursday]

The final reward for getting 1000 / 1000 achievement points in "Tomb Raider: Legend" (an absolutely brilliant game) is to play as Lara, naked.

Huh? I don't think that's true. I think there's some textureless mode, but it's hardly nude. (although there was that nude cheat in the first game, wasn't there?) But even so, that's more the extras. So I don't think that would change what I said anyway. It's not like her dialogue is laden with innuendo  it's not like she's constantly using her sexuality to distract guards or stuff like that. She's basically a wealthy aristocrat that's really interested in archaeology and ancient cultures. There is the issues with her parents dying that's been focused on in more recent games to try and create some more emotional back-story in the more recent games though.

[Mister Six]

Robin/Nighwing was (arguably) raped in a Batman comic, by a female character.

That wasn't a defining part of the character's backstory, though, or even a plotline that was much referenced or remembered outside of a glimmer of web anger.

[El Unicornio, mang]

She's always been an improbably proportioned wank fantasy.

Mind, that's probably true of most male video game game characters as well. I mean, just look at Mario!

[Famous Mortimer]

Research seems to show this isn't true. Can you show me any evidence?

I was positive that was right. I really hope it wasn't a cheat code, or something, that I had to spend time finding and typing in, because I remember running round her home for about ten minutes with Lara naked, long after I'd finished the game. And that makes me feel pretty sleazy.

I apologise unreservedly if that's the case, I blame time and a faulty memory. And a serious Tomb Raider: Legend addiction (such a well-designed game).

EDIT EDIT: a quick search reveals there's no way to do it - http://tombraiders.net/stella/walks/TR7walk/outfits.html. Maybe it was the swimsuit. Oh god, I feel quite dirty now.

[mcbpete]

(although there was that nude cheat in the first game, wasn't there?)

Yeah, you had to jump/roll in time to a rhythm (Spice Girl's Wannabe worked perfectly) and after about 5 minutes some flood lights appeared and a cut scene saw her strip off. It also made all the animals not attack you and if I remember correctly made the wolves 'wolf whistle'. It's true I did it myself loads of times but you cant see it cos my disc is scratched and, erm, the playstation is in getting repaired along with my NeoGeo and 40 games.

[Mister Six]

And you could 'be' Goro.

[Theremin]

urgh.

At the moment, Drake's just a carbon copy of the same sarcastic, libidinous, Han Solo expy that you've seen in dozens of Hollywood movies and other videogames.

But, you take all those characteristics and put them on a female character, and suddenly you've got a combination of traits that's very rarely used, and as such, is more interesting than just another generic protagonist. It's the path less traveled.

[Still Not George]

But, you take all those characteristics and put them on a female character, and suddenly you've got a combination of traits that's very rarely used, and as such, is more interesting than just another generic protagonist. It's the path less traveled.

See, while I do agree with you that it would be a much more interesting protagonist, I don't really want a character that's just Han Solo with tits. I'd greatly prefer someone to pioneer a genuinely convincing, impressive, independently strong female character. The kind of character Ellen Ripley would be if James Cameron hadn't insisted on rubber-stamping every single page of the Aliens script with "MOTHERHOOD IS MAGIC" over and over and over. I want a female character who has her own unique set of flaws and who perseveres and wins despite them, and doesn't need some guy to do it for her.

And a pony. I want a fucking PONY!

[RickyGerbail]

At the moment, Drake's just a carbon copy of the same sarcastic, libidinous, Han Solo expy that you've seen in dozens of Hollywood movies and other videogames.

But, you take all those characteristics and put them on a female character, and suddenly you've got a combination of traits that's very rarely used, and as such, is more interesting than just another generic protagonist. It's the path less traveled.

ok it's 0.1% more interesting i'll give you that.

[Theremin]

See, while I do agree with you that it would be a much more interesting protagonist, I don't really want a character that's just Han Solo with tits. I'd greatly prefer someone to pioneer a genuinely convincing, impressive, independently strong female character. The kind of character Ellen Ripley would be if James Cameron hadn't insisted on rubber-stamping every single page of the Aliens script with "MOTHERHOOD IS MAGIC" over and over and over. I want a female character who has her own unique set of flaws and who perseveres and wins despite them, and doesn't need some guy to do it for her.

You're completely right, but considering AAA game development still has trouble writing 3-dimensional characters at all, I'm prepared to settle for Han Solo with tits.

[Jerzy Bondov]

Theremin, doesn't Mass Effect do what you want? It's written for the male character, but you can sub in a woman instead. The script doesn't change, leaving you with a fairly original female character, even though the man version makes it obvious that Shepard is actually quite generic.

Saints Row as well.

[Still Not George]

FemShep is DudeShep with tits.

[Theremin]

Theremin, doesn't Mass Effect do what you want? It's written for the male character, but you can sub in a woman instead. The script doesn't change, leaving you with a fairly original female character, even though the man version makes it obvious that Shepard is actually quite generic.

Saints Row as well.

It does, and while it's really refreshing to be able to see a female protagonist in a position of genuine authority in a videogame:

FemShep is DudeShep with tits.

And having a female character whose gender is not addressed at all is not as good as having a genuinely well-written female character.

[MojoJojo]

And having a female character whose gender is not addressed at all is not as good as having a genuinely well-written female character.

Aren't you having your cake and eating it a bit? It's not as if cliched male characters gender is ever really addressed, so why should we address it with female characters (unless it's part of the story).

[Jerzy Bondov]

The other thing about Mass Effect and Saints Row is that you don't have to play as a huge-titted pornstar if you pick the woman[nb]not saying that I didn't mind you[/nb]. It's a shame that if we want our female avatars to look like actual women we have to design them ourselves.

Of course we'll get a well-written male character before we get a female one, but even that arguably hasn't happened yet.

[Still Not George]

No, I mean FemShep is literally DudeShep with tits. As in, a last minute addition and all the mocap was done for a dude. She walks like a dude, talks like a dude, even sits watching dancing girls exactly like a dude.

Shepard isn't generic. Shepard is a human male, regardless of the skin.

[Jerzy Bondov]

Didn't they change that for ME3 when they gave her a new (sexy) face? I could be wrong.

[Dead kate moss]

Not good enough for you? You want the moon on a stick.

[Still Not George]

Didn't they change that for ME3 when they gave her a new (sexy) face? I could be wrong.

I'm afraid I haven't actually played ME3 yet (Skyrim and DF are about all I have time to play right now).

[mook]

And a pony. I want a fucking PONY!

fair enough. i had to turn it of after 3 seconds. looked like rape to me. NWS NMS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoEaiuMs1YM