Doctor Who - Series 12, Chibnall's Revenge

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Is the Children In Need thing actually a Doctor Who thing, or is it just her singing that bloody song?

Whittaker and Tennant are among a group of celebs singing various bloody songs for charity.

[olliebean]

Makes sense that Chibnall's Doctor gets lumbered with singing such a dreadfully bland MOTR song. Seem to be lots of people commenting along the lines of "I didn't know she could sing," but it sounds massively AutoTuned to me, so probably she can't very well.

[Kelvin]

"What did you make of the last series?"

"Pretty shit all told, I didn't really enjoy it."

"Yeah, it was never going to work with a woman."

"No, that's not what I mean, I think she's good, it's just that..."

"Yeah, it's shit now."

I hope, unlike me, you've never had to endure this conversation in your actual life.

I have, and I couldn't even say I think she's any good as the Doctor, because I basically think she's a bit rubbish, maybe one of the worst.*


*Because she's so anemically performed, not because she has boobs.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

Makes sense that Chibnall's Doctor gets lumbered with singing such a dreadfully bland MOTR song. Seem to be lots of people commenting along the lines of "I didn't know she could sing," but it sounds massively AutoTuned to me, so probably she can't very well.

There's a bit in the documentary where she sings it live in the studio. She can't reach the high notes, but it's far more affecting and real than the possibly AutoTuned final version. She has a nice singing voice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIFzZ91PZMs

We've reached the point where all we have to talk about is the Doctor recording a Coldplay song for Children in Need.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

*Because she's so anemically performed, not because she has boobs.

She's doing the best she can with an anaemically written role. Her Doctor is just a thin patchwork of Tennant and Smith, there's nothing for her to get to grips with and make her own. She's a good actor, ill-served by weak material.

[pigamus]

She's doing the best she can with an anaemically written role. Her Doctor is just a thin patchwork of Tennant and Smith, there's nothing for her to get to grips with and make her own. She's a good actor, ill-served by weak material.

Yeah, it isn't really fair to make any kind of judgement on her based on the weak orange squash she's been given to work with. Deep down I suspect she doesn't really have the quirkiness, edginess, strangeness that the role needs - but you can't reasonably test the capabilities of a Formula One driver by putting them behind the wheel of a Nissan Micra all the while.

[Kelvin]

She's doing the best she can with an anemically written role. Her Doctor is just a thin patchwork of Tennant and Smith, there's nothing for her to get to grips with and make her own. She's a good actor, ill-served by weak material.

Even factoring in the awful material she's given, I still don't think it's a very good performance. I just don't believe her in the role at all, and she never elevates what she's given, which is big a part of the problem, I think. Other Doctors still injected some charisima into poorer scripts they were given. 

Don't get me wrong; the blame first and foremost lands at the feet of Chibnall and his dreadful writing, but I don't think it's entirely his fault that The Doctor frequently doesn't stand out from the other characters, or has very little sense of the alien about her. Part of that has to come from the actor as well - her movements, her delivery, her presence. It's almost completely absent from Whitaker.     

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

I'd argue that she does possess a natural quirkiness, an impish quality, that's well-suited to the role. She reminds me of Davison in the sense that they both have blonde hair she's not a massively commanding, charismatic performer, but she's nevertheless innately charming and likeable.

[The Roofdog]

She gets a bunch of great Doctory moments in Demons of the Punjab, I think, but most of the time she's such a minor character in her own show I find it impossible to judge.

[Mister Six]

Even factoring in the awful material she's given, I still don't think it's a very good performance. I just don't believe her in the role at all, and she never elevates what she's given, which is big a part of the problem, I think. Other Doctors still injected some charisima into poorer scripts they were given. 

I dunno, Matt Smith is visibly floundering throughout the Silurians two-parter in his first season, and he absolutely glitters in every other episode from that year. There's something about Chibnall's aggressive mediocrity that hobbles even the best actors. It's like they're having to wade through porridge.

I'd also add that I don't think Tennant really quite got a grip on his character in his first series, either. In his second series, the scripts were better tailored to his strengths (more quiet seething, less Eccleston-esque shouting, for a start).

[Kelvin]

I dunno, Matt Smith is visibly floundering throughout the Silurians two-parter in his first season, and he absolutely glitters in every other episode from that year. There's something about Chibnall's aggressive mediocrity that hobbles even the best actors. It's like they're having to wade through porridge.

I don't remember him being off in the Silurian two parter, but I do remember thinking he was fairly ropey in several scenes in his first Dalek story, so maybe you're right. I certainly don't think it was true of every mediocre episode he appeared in though, or even the majority. There were literally only a handful of scenes in Whitaker's entire first series where I thought, "Ah, maybe there is something Doctory in there." It just seemed like such a tepid, nervous performance.   

[Cloud]

There are some actors who can elevate beyond such shit material, but you're talking a different league of actors to be fair - Patrick Stewart tier.

[pigamus]

Even factoring in the awful material she's given, I still don't think it's a very good performance. I just don't believe her in the role at all, and she never elevates what she's given, which is big a part of the problem, I think. Other Doctors still injected some charisima into poorer scripts they were given. 

"Elevating what you're given" is a load of bullshit. Garbage in, garbage out.

[Kelvin]

"Elevating what you're given" is a load of bullshit. Garbage in, garbage out.

Don't be daft. There are hundreds of shows and films where mediocre or even bad writing is made more engaging because of an actor injecting some extra element into it. One example would be Bradley Walsh in this very series.

[kidsick5000]

Don't be daft. There are hundreds of shows and films where mediocre or even bad writing is made more engaging because of an actor injecting some extra element into it. One example would be Bradley Walsh in this very series.

At this point, I feel this scene from Wayne's World 2 might help

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eWsFFQP0gA

[Blinder Data]

Even factoring in the awful material she's given, I still don't think it's a very good performance. I just don't believe her in the role at all, and she never elevates what she's given, which is big a part of the problem, I think. Other Doctors still injected some charisima into poorer scripts they were given. 

Don't get me wrong; the blame first and foremost lands at the feet of Chibnall and his dreadful writing, but I don't think it's entirely his fault that The Doctor frequently doesn't stand out from the other characters, or has very little sense of the alien about her. Part of that has to come from the actor as well - her movements, her delivery, her presence. It's almost completely absent from Whitaker.     

I agree 100% with this. Unfortunately, I just don't think Whittaker is very good. It's a big shame that the first female Doctor isn't hitting the mark when there are many viable alternatives.

(I reckon Anna Maxwell Martin or Anne-Marie Duff would make excellent doctors, for example. It would be good to have another female Doctor next so it doesn't look like they're "correcting" anything by going back to a man.)

[Cloud]

It's a point I'm not keen on as it's usually brought up by alt-right dickheads and proving them anything close to "right" is sickening, but I think they may have something of a point in that they seem to have gone "we need a woman, eh she'll do.  We need a black dude, eh he'll do" etc.  Except where the alt-right opinion is "hire on skills (and please make sure they're straight white cis males or we'll claim you didn't)" I'm thinking more along the lines of... they had this image of a "Blue Peter cast of tokens" in their minds and gone for exactly that (i.e. little thought given to acting ability).  Or maybe only had a few of each demographic turn up for audition.  A good approach would be "we need a woman, let's audition women only and pick the best" or "we need a black dude, let's audition black dudes only and pick the best" but I suppose that probably has problems with discrimination laws?  Not sure how the laws work in acting as you do often need specific roles but this is Doctor Who so you can have whatever.

I don't think it's lack of experience as there are plenty of good actresses and actors of colour etc, just... it's almost as if an alt-righter has infiltrated the auditioning process and thought "ha, I'll pretend to be a leftie and hire the most wooden I can find to 'prove' that hiring for diversity is bad" as I'm not convinced at all that it is but have to admit the outcome in this instance has been.... everyone except the white male is a bit shit.  And I hate for them kind of people to be "proven right" to any degree really.

Saw her in Black Mirror, she was meh there too.

Still, all actors need experience, hopefully they'll improve...

[Phil_A]

I agree 100% with this. Unfortunately, I just don't think Whittaker is very good. It's a big shame that the first female Doctor isn't hitting the mark when there are many viable alternatives.

(I reckon Anna Maxwell Martin or Anne-Marie Duff would make excellent doctors, for example. It would be good to have another female Doctor next so it doesn't look like they're "correcting" anything by going back to a man.)

Maxine Peake would've been my pick, as she's got the kind of real life eccentricity that I reckon would feed well into the part.

I did see her being asked about it a while back and I think her answer was along the lines of "not on your life, mate." Shame really.

[Huxleys Babkins]

I'm not sure I buy into this idea of Whitaker not being good enough. The issue I've had with the past series is the writing and direction pushing the Doctor into the background. It's like she's an afterthought most of the time. The bombastic speeches, the aha moments, the "oh fuck, it's all gone to shit, (wo)man of the hour" stuff just isn't there and without that, there's not really much she can do.

[beanheadmcginty]

They should have given the job to Julia Davis. And got her to write the scripts.

[Cloud]

In fairness I'd put it as a combination of things. If anything it's about 80% crap writing/directing/etc and 20% meh acting, but Bradley Walsh being a good example of how good presence can at least elevate it a bit IMO.  If either the writing or acting were particularly good, they would help the other.

[olliebean]

I still reckon Michaela Coel would be great.

From what I've seen of Whittaker in other things, I reckon she's good at delivering the performance that is asked of her, but that's by no means the entirety of what's required for a good Doctor. (Especially not when it's Chibnall doing the asking.)

[Alberon]

She's pretty much given 'generic Doctor' to play in her first season. It's possible she'll get better material in her second year (but I won't hold my breath).

The actor in the title role always gets it in the neck when the show is shit. Look at Colin Baker. Now, he's not a good an actor as Whittaker, but his great improvement in the Big Finish audios show that he was not totally responsible for some of the disastrous rubbish in his two series in the role. Pip and Jane Baker (no relation) are not his fault.

[VelourSpirit]

bradley walsh's character is the most offensively trite and shit to me
"ooh doc almost forgot me sandwiches"
fuck OFF

[Replies From View]

vanished from view.

He never comes to any family gatherings these days; I do hope he's okay.

[weekender]

If you didn't have your family gatherings at 'Hides's' home, this would be less of a problem.

Anyway, anything good about Series 11?  I seem to remember liking Jamie Childs as a Director, even if he did have to put up with two Chibnall scripts.

[Replies From View]

It's possible she'll get better material in her second year (but I won't hold my breath).

Of course she won't.  In series 11, Chris Chibnall has already offered his best effort.

[Replies From View]

In fairness I'd put it as a combination of things. If anything it's about 80% crap writing/directing/etc and 20% meh acting, but Bradley Walsh being a good example of how good presence can at least elevate it a bit IMO.  If either the writing or acting were particularly good, they would help the other.

Yes, I agree with this.  Peter Capaldi lifted some crappy scenes and episodes far above where they deserved to be, as well.  It happens.

[Ballad of Ballard Berkley]

bradley walsh's character is the most offensively trite and shit to me
"ooh doc almost forgot me sandwiches"
fuck OFF

Yeah, but the point is that Walsh is able to imbue his character with more depth and pathos than a lesser actor could. Graham is written as NICE MAN WITH DEAD WIFE, but Walsh, because he's a good actor, rises above that sketchy remit. His facial expressions, his line delivery, exceed the mediocre material he's been lumbered with.

As for Whittaker, her character isn't as fleshed out as NICE MAN WITH DEAD WIFE. She's a blandly wacky Doctor Who with no agency, no point beyond being the person who flies the TARDIS. What, as an actor, is she supposed to do with that? At least Walsh can get to grips with the notion that his character is experiencing grief. That's a starting point. Whittaker has nothing to work with (her character has centuries of grief and pain to deal with, but Chibnall never alludes to that).

[Small Man Big Horse]

I think part of the problem is the character she's been saddled with, as in this Doctor is all obsessed about "fam" and "hanging with me mates" and there's nothing else to her. As much as I've been enjoying the Doctor Who comics by Jody Houser, which have really great plots and make Ryan vaguely likeable, she rarely manages to make the Doctor that interesting. Or Yaz, for that matter.