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March 28, 2024, 12:14:09 PM

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FBI warns agents about Havana Syndrome

Started by Alberon, November 26, 2021, 01:30:28 PM

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Sebastian Cobb

Fair point, I think America and Israel actually have microwave weapons for crowd control anyway.

BlodwynPig


Blumf


chveik

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on November 28, 2021, 05:50:58 PMFair point, I think America and Israel actually have microwave weapons for crowd control anyway.

yeah i'm sure the CIA and the Mossad have thrown a shitload of money into projects like this. they're pretty incompetent but they have infinite ressources

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: chveik on November 28, 2021, 06:01:17 PMyeah i'm sure the CIA and the Mossad have thrown a shitload of money into projects like this. they're pretty incompetent but they have infinite ressources

One of the grimmest things I saw recently r was the 'non-lethal' stuff Israel does to the parts of Palestine they can't flatten. Essentially specialist muckspreaders full of stuff that smells of bin juice and takes weeks to get off. Weird playground bully stuff.

chveik

besides it's pretty standard in the CIA history that they convince themselves that the commies have access to mind control technology and then try to engineer one themselves, with hilarious (and horrifying) consequences

idunnosomename

I say I say my wife works for the US government and has that wacky brain radiation condition from being blasted by the Ruskies!

'Havana?'

Jamaica.

'Certainly not!'

Awful.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: chveik on November 28, 2021, 06:38:28 PMbesides it's pretty standard in the CIA history that they convince themselves that the commies have access to mind control technology and then try to engineer one themselves, with hilarious (and horrifying) consequences
Yeh there is that. Without wanting to go too deep into tedious nerd bollocks you could repurpose a TV receiver stick into a wideband scanner to detect this nonsense, so the might of the entire security services could carry loggers smaller than a pack of fags to log this and correlate of they wanted.

evilcommiedictator

Quote from: Pinball on November 28, 2021, 05:29:51 PMIt happened in Cuba to US personnel. The balance of probabilities as to who was responsible seem pretty clear. What is your evidence that US personnel were attacking other US personnel? What a delusional thing to say.

The Cubans literally let the Americans into the country to investigate it back in the day, extraordinary move, and they found.......nothing.
It's an amazing hoax to get time off work

Cuellar


Cold Meat Platter

2.30AM in a Havana boozer on a worknight...

"Christ I'm steaming what time is it? Oh fuckssake. Hey Davey, *BELCH* I think a can feel a bit of Havana Syndrome coming on, can you?" *winks*

Sebastian Cobb

It's blatantly that b2b American stomachs getting a bit confused abroad.

Johnny Yesno


Cerys

Yeah, clearly someone had a hangover and the lie just got out of hand.  I reckon it was Bret.  It usually is, the fast-living malingering cunt.

Alberon

The Americans are still panicking about this. Some more 'cases' have popped up in Europe.

QuoteFour more US diplomats working in Geneva and Paris have fallen ill with a suspected neurological illness known as "Havana syndrome", US media report.

Three diplomats became sick in the Swiss city and one in the French capital last summer, with some 200 people affected over five years.

Secretary of State Antony Blinken said the American government was working to get to the bottom of the mystery.
There are fears an adversary may have targeted diplomats with microwaves.

Mr Blinken said the issue had been raised with Russia but no determination had been made.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59986297

So the US still seems to be convinced something beyond mass hysteria is going on here.

monkfromhavana

Quote from: Alberon on January 13, 2022, 08:15:20 PMThe Americans are still panicking about this. Some more 'cases' have popped up in Europe.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59986297

So the US still seems to be convinced something beyond mass hysteria is going on here.

Surely the "ping" at the end would give it away that they've been affected.

bgmnts

There's something they're not telling us.

Buelligan

These people, all of them, spend their lives thinking the unthinkable and then behaving even worse, spending huge sums of peoples' dollar on cuntitude when babies are dying for lack of clean water.  It the poisonous fruits of their wicked labours are affecting them and only them, I say, it's a nice change.


the Fallen



PlanktonSideburns

Would be lovely if this was some sort if guilt tulpa screaming the tinnitus of inter torment at Bastards

Our mass hysteria

It's just war propaganda though isn't it?

gilbertharding

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on November 28, 2021, 06:53:26 PMYeh there is that. Without wanting to go too deep into tedious nerd bollocks you could repurpose a TV receiver stick into a wideband scanner to detect this nonsense, so the might of the entire security services could carry loggers smaller than a pack of fags to log this and correlate of they wanted.

Yeah - came here to post this. A microwave weapon might be something you could use, but not against anyone who might conceivably be able to detect you doing so.

Alberon

The arguments over this are still rumbling on.

To recap, the FBI warned its staff about 'Havana Syndrome', but a more recent CIA report says the whole thing is rubbish.

QuoteThe latest report from a US intelligence community panel of experts says the symptoms are "genuine and compelling" and could in some cases have been caused by a concealed device.

But the panel does not look at who might be responsible.

They've concluded that a 'directed energy' system or ultrasound is responsible in at least some of the cases.

QuoteThe study found that pulsed electromagnetic energy, particularly in the radiofrequency range, "plausibly explains" the core characteristics, although it says that there remain gaps in the information.

It says that non-standard antennas could create the effects on the human body. Such a source could be concealed and require only moderate power. It could also travel through the air and through walls of buildings.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60237839

iamcoop

These sorts of allegations should be taken with a Cuba salt!

Funcrusher


it's just mass hysteria co-opted for some anti-Cuba propaganda.

gilbertharding

Quote from: Alberon on February 03, 2022, 08:31:16 AMThe arguments over this are still rumbling on.

To recap, the FBI warned its staff about 'Havana Syndrome', but a more recent CIA report says the whole thing is rubbish.

They've concluded that a 'directed energy' system or ultrasound is responsible in at least some of the cases.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60237839

As I say - these things are all very well, but you can't use them (for long) against someone with the technology to detect them, because they can easily jam them, or shield themselves - surely?

Ambient Sheep

I've been baffled by the scepticism in this thread; am I the only one who [is old enough to] remember the microwave attacks on the U.S. Embassy in Moscow back in the Cold War 80s?

Was all properly written up in the papers and everyfing, as I recall.

The difference is, back then, after the first wave or two of cases, they DID detect it, even down to which building it was coming from - basically a microwave dish aimed directly at them.

Which makes this:

Quote from: gilbertharding on February 03, 2022, 12:52:58 PMAs I say - these things are all very well, but you can't use them (for long) against someone with the technology to detect them, because they can easily jam them, or shield themselves - surely?

a very good question.

Jamming, not really; shielding, possible, but covering the whole building in metal, including the windows, is not easy.

Detection, trivial though.  Either they're really incompetent, or more likely playing dumb for some reason.  If it were microwaves or similar, they wouldn't be guessing, they would KNOW.


Ambient Sheep

Turns out it was 1953-1976.  I must have just read about it in the 1980s.

Reading the whole article it seems it may have been more about spying than a weapon, and while some studies showed no health effects, nonetheless others showed otherwise.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow_Signal

QuoteThe Moscow Signal was a reported microwave transmission varying between 2.5 and 4 gigahertz, directed at the Embassy of the United States, Moscow from 1953–1976, resulting in an international incident. The US government eventually determined it was probably an attempt at espionage, and that there were no significant health effects on embassy staff, although this conclusion has been disputed.
::
::
The microwave beam came from a source in an apartment building about 100 metres (109 yards) east of the 10-floor embassy building. The beams targeted the east side of the building, with highest intensities between the third and eighth floors.
::
::
In 1976, after the microwave radiation was found to have increased, the U.S. Department of State commissioned a study [...] While the study was unpublished, its 1978 report concluded that there were no adverse health effects.

A Spanish study in 2019, based on the 1978 study with declassified information and new statistical analyses, found that Moscow embassy employees in 1976 had a higher cancer mortality rate than the general population and a worse health status than Europe's embassy employees overall.

Ambassador Walter Stoessel fell ill in 1975 with symptoms including bleeding from the eyes. He later died of leukemia. In a 1975 phone call US Secretary of State Henry Kissinger linked Stoessel's illness to the microwaves and stated "we are trying to keep the thing quiet". Multiple other ambassadors and embassy staff died of cancer.

gilbertharding

Quote from: Ambient Sheep on February 04, 2022, 04:15:29 AMI've been baffled by the scepticism in this thread; am I the only one who [is old enough to] remember the microwave attacks on the U.S. Embassy in Moscow back in the Cold War 80s?

Was all properly written up in the papers and everyfing, as I recall.

The difference is, back then, after the first wave or two of cases, they DID detect it, even down to which building it was coming from - basically a microwave dish aimed directly at them.

Which makes this:

a very good question.

Jamming, not really; shielding, possible, but covering the whole building in metal, including the windows, is not easy.

Detection, trivial though.  Either they're really incompetent, or more likely playing dumb for some reason.  If it were microwaves or similar, they wouldn't be guessing, they would KNOW.



Surely the building is already shielded somehow - otherwise it would be too easy just to sit outside with a scanner, listening to all the communications going on. I dunno - I read Spycatcher last year... I expect stuff has moved on since then though.