Be part of the 25% today - offer expires soon

[Crenners]

Get your jab captain planet

😂😂😂

[Kankurette]

It is possible to think antivaxxers are dangerous idiots AND be angry about climate change. And Novak Djokovic has racked up how many air miles?

[Buelligan]

Get your jab captain planet

😂😂😂

Absolutely!  People must get vaxxed to save as many as possible from possible death.  So let's worry even more about saving everyone (and thing).

Imagine if our governments put in even the level of support and energy into saving the world they put into keeping the economy turning over.

[Kankurette]

OK. For Barry's sake, I'm bowing out now.

[TrenterPercenter]

Get your jab captain planet
😂😂😂

I laughed


However you should watch the video Crenners, it has an important message in it that I think you'll agree

Spoiler alert

makes me look good for having paid for it 👌

[close]

[Buelligan]

Just bumping this.

[PlanktonSideburns]

The idea that anyone can predict how the earth is getting on and where we are in terms of tipping points and fuckness is just another kind of naive, allbeit one with a long trench coat and an emo fringe. Assuming you have the weather forecast on the next fifty years of this planet is pseudoscience, lazy pseudoscience, the path of least resistance. Someone comes into your emergency ward, in a bit of a state. Cursory glance. Nah he's fucked mate, don't have children, don't read long books. Not wasting the sharp of my blades on that. Get this corpse out of here. Fuck on with that. Call it what it is, that's cowardice with a black fedora on

[PlanktonSideburns]

Need a new avatar

[chveik]

there are always disagreements between scientists but the fact that we're fucked isn't in question.

[Butchers Blind]

Can people stop using the phrase 'save the planet', it sounds moronic.

[BJBMK2]

I like climate change. I think it is good.

[Twit 2]

The idea that anyone can predict how the earth is getting on and where we are in terms of tipping points and fuckness is just another kind of naive, allbeit one with a long trench coat and an emo fringe. Assuming you have the weather forecast on the next fifty years of this planet is pseudoscience, lazy pseudoscience, the path of least resistance. Someone comes into your emergency ward, in a bit of a state. Cursory glance. Nah he's fucked mate, don't have children, don't read long books. Not wasting the sharp of my blades on that. Get this corpse out of here. Fuck on with that. Call it what it is, that's cowardice with a black fedora on

This is a really shit analogy. People die in hospitals all the time because they're too far gone and there's nothing the doctors can do.

Mate, the world is on fire; the doomsday glaciers are melting at terrifying rates; the rainforests are being bulldozed. We're fucked. It's not emo pessimism; it's reality. Listen to yourself: "Scientists can't predict what's going to happen to the Earth." Maybe not precisely, but enough to know we're fucked. Even a fruit bat with its arse on fire in Australia has an inkling something's up.

You're accusing people of naiveté, but what you wrote comes across as naive, even anti-intellectual. And perhaps also written from the vantage of relative privilege and insulting to those who have already died, or had their lives fucked over due to climate destruction.

"Climate change is something you watch on a screen until one day you're watching it out of your window."

[PlanktonSideburns]

All right fine I'll give up then, cheers for the clarification

I mean fair, your response is a flippant answer to a flippant post, but you do not know when the tipping point is, at which generation, and neither does a scientist, climate change is a vast and complicated field

[Kelvin]

The idea that anyone can predict how the earth is getting on and where we are in terms of tipping points and fuckness is just another kind of naive, allbeit one with a long trench coat and an emo fringe. Assuming you have the weather forecast on the next fifty years of this planet is pseudoscience, lazy pseudoscience, the path of least resistance. Someone comes into your emergency ward, in a bit of a state. Cursory glance. Nah he's fucked mate, don't have children, don't read long books. Not wasting the sharp of my blades on that. Get this corpse out of here. Fuck on with that. Call it what it is, that's cowardice with a black fedora on

I actually think there's a good chance we do have longer than we're being told, primarily because nothing is ever as bad or as good as the loudest voices tell us. We've been hearing about tipping points for years, clearly because people know the damage we're doing and (understandably) want to spur us into action with a ticking clock.

That doesn't change the fact that I don't believe we can persuade an entire planet to change its selfish, short-sighted ways. Even persuading the UK to make the necessary changes is inconceivable; it would be at odd with big business, car ownership, eating meat... there is no reality where people can be persuaded en masse to make those changes until the water's already lapping round their feet. Just getting people to recycle a few cans is difficult. 

So its not really about whether or not we still have time (we probably do), or whether we should make these changes anyway for a healthier lifestyle. The simple fact is that we cannot change the world's overall direction of travel, anymore than you can stop the tides coming in. Yes, there are other good reasons for making changes within our own lives, and trying to reduce our own personal footprint on the planet. But I don't believe that we can stop the global damage humanity is doing.       

[shoulders]

The knockon effects of environmental disasters will manifest differently for other countries.

In the West where we rely on cheap labour and the outward appearance at least of being strict on immigration, a lot of the early pressure will be political and there will be a lack of joining the dots, and shortsighted responses.

In the UK yes, more flooding, more extreme weather, but unless the gulf stream stops, anything severely affecting the country will happen way further down the line (not in the next 30 years).

Australia is a pretty good tell as to how humanity will react. It is pretty much burning yearly and temperatures are regularly becoming unbearable. Their PM is a patsy for the fossil fuel industry and their media is in cynical full scale denial and deflection to protect business interests.

Covid gives us another clue. With international co-operation we could have ended the pandemic in the first month, instead we took a disastrous nationalist route. That all has to end for there to be any hope.

[Zetetic]

The refugee

We've been hearing about tipping points for years, clearly because people know the damage we're doing and (understandably) want to spur us into action with a ticking clock.

And because there are a bunch of things that are likely to have a reinforcing effect if/when they happen. They're not just a rhetorical device.

[Johnny Yesno]

This is a really shit analogy. People die in hospitals all the time because they're too far gone and there's nothing the doctors can do.

Mate, the world is on fire; the doomsday glaciers are melting at terrifying rates; the rainforests are being bulldozed. We're fucked.

I'd say that makes it quite a good analogy.

[bakabaka]

Just because scientists can't say exactly when we're going to die doesn't mean we're not going to die. Either personally or as a species.

The use of uncertainty as refutation just comes across as fighting for more suffering.

[Kelvin]

The refugeeAnd because there are a bunch of things that are likely to have a reinforcing effect if/when they happen. They're not just a rhetorical device.

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest they're only a rhetorical device, I don't doubt for one second that there are various points of no return for the planet/ecosystem, etc. I just meant that, as with any situation where people want to provoke action and/or win hearts and minds, there is a tendency to focus on the worst / best case scenario, in order to achieve that change. So crudely, if people are saying we have fifty years before the world is permanently fucked, we might have seventy five. But I would never dispute that the world is still going to be permanently fucked at some point. 

[Kelvin]

Just because scientists can't say exactly when we're going to die doesn't mean we're not going to die. Either personally or as a species.

The use of uncertainty as refutation just comes across as fighting for more suffering.

I think PlanktonSideburns was actually arguing that the uncertainty is a reason to continue fighting, rather than to give up. i.e we may still have time to change things.

[shoulders]

Chalk me up as 'fight on, even if we're fucked'.


Edit, Sorry, this isn't the Labour thread

[Zetetic]

I do wonder if the death imagery isn't unhelpful. Most of us will be spending the end of things living through it, rather than dropping dead. Soviet and Yugoslav experiences might be a touch point that we take a bit more seriously than gawping at an empty shelf or an HBO series not really about anything.

[shoulders]

https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/scotland-gorse-bush-protein-food-b1990246.html

Scottish future

[Kelvin]

Chalk me up as 'fight on, even if we're fucked'.

Agreed. Changes like reducing carbon emissions, moving to green energy, etc all have benefits anyway, even if they won't be on a scale to turn things around long-term. It's still worth fighting for changes that will improve everyday life, and may buy the world more time. Its not all or nothing.

[poo]

Humanity will survive and the Earth just doesn't care what state its in - we'll just live in a much, much shitter version of it.

[PlanktonSideburns]

I'd say that makes it quite a good analogy.

I guess my point was that a doctor might act like you can save someone's life unless it's mega, super obvious it's a waste of time, and even then you might have a go at it, just to pass time like. Getting all arsed and fatalist about it seems a bit Harold shipman

[Zetetic]

I guess my point was that a doctor might act like you can save someone's life unless it's mega, super obvious it's a waste of time, and even then you might have a go at it, just to pass time like.

Although this how you end up with people's last moments being spent having their rib cage smashed in by a stranger in an A&E, rather than at home with their loved ones.

Getting all arsed and fatalist about it seems a bit Harold shipman

And I guess it's this popular view which is why nurses feel they have to beat the shit out of corpses to avoid being struck off.

(I don't think this has much relevance to climate change mind you.)

[Crenners]

Dinos had dey time
Humans had dey time
Radioactive cockroach-amoeba gonna have dey time

Look at a dandelion in the breeze. Oh! wheres he gone?

Dats earth

😂😂😂

Hes gonna be something different .



 don't worrie

[TrenterPercenter]

How about this for an analogy?

Two people sticking there heads out the window of a block of flats

Person A - Oi quick the flats are on fire!
Person B - Yes I know
Person A - Why aren't you doing anything about it, put it out ffs!
Person B - I can't it's structural, the fire is being sustained by the design of the building interacting with the occupants inside it.
Person A - Yes but when I say put it out I mean why aren't YOU being like ME I've stopped doing all the things that individually contribute to the fire, why are you such a terrible person?!
Person B - I know I've tried to do this too but it doesn't make any difference, scientists and experts have said it needs to be something that is done at a much greater scale.
Person A - See this is the problem, humans, they are disgusting, they should all be made extinct, why should my block of flats burn down with my hamster in it because you are such a terrible person?
Person B - If we can get enough people in the flats to speak to the management they might be able to redesign the building but...
Person A - But what? Why are these idiots not doing this?
Person B - Well, they don't really understand things as well as us and they have lots of other things on their mind and....
Person A - That is ridiculous they are idiots, I know how to do everything we need to do, they are just horrible people that deserve to die and shouldn't be allowed to have kids.
Person B ....and they don't like you.  I tried to speak to a few of them but they said they thought the way you've been acting didn't seem like you actually cared about them and seemed to be more about you just being angry at them and the world.
Person A - What?! Those utter cunts, how dare they, I adore this world, my hamster, the dandelions, trees and that, this is why I am better because I understand the magic of nature and nature understands and accepts me. The problem is of course humans and this is really serious, we are all going to die and these utter cunts can't try and even empathise with that!
Person B - They said, at first they were told to do all this stuff individually that they found hard to do for various reasons, they then said that you shouted at them over a load of other things too, even things that they agreed with but just had slightly different views on having lived different lives, they said they started feeling ashamed, humiliated for not having the means to lead more moral lives.  I think we need to understand and think about how we communicate with them.
Person A - Utter, utter cunts, what is wrong with them! I sustain myself on the rain that collects on my window sill, I've been looking at a few dandelions out of window and appreciating the wondrous incredible beautiful inspiring world of nature, why can't these idiots just do the same and become as laudable as me?!
Person B - I think they just switched off, that can happen when people are just shouted at for long periods and if the messaging becomes overwhelming, angry and often inconsistent.
Person A - BUT MY HAMSTER WILL DIE! and these arseholes feelings are hurt?!
Person B - Not hurt so much, I think just think switched off, I think it's something humans do to protect themselves and stave of depression or anxiety or something.  There are people that study this and there was also that famous person with the beard that spoke about the interactions between buildings and occupants explained something about alienation that maybe we should consider asking...
Person A - DON'T START TELLING ME ABOUT BUILDING DESIGNS I voted for the wonderful incredibly brilliant and oh so terribly kind to hamsters, structural committee member at the last association elections. 
Person B - Yes he was good he also agrees with...
Person A - ME, he agrees with ME but he didn't win because of cunts like you who didn't write enough superlatives on the internet about him.  Look I know everything alright and all these idiots need to do is be like me and stop being the inferior terrible people that they are, do they not care about other humans even?
Person B - Well I've never witnessed them openly discuss the eradication of the human species before...
Person A - These people need to consider how terrible they are for the state of the building and how really they should throw themselves out of the window so me and my hamster can not get burned.
Person B - Ok I'll mention it to them next time I see them <flames proceed to get bigger>

[Buelligan]

Maybe, rather than a block of flats, it might be better if it was a head, just with someone living rent free in there.