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Why do people not get 'Harry & Paul'?

Started by danwho9, January 08, 2022, 04:26:39 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Retinend

#90
Quote from: Twonty Gostelow on January 12, 2022, 02:05:03 AMThere were some pap photos last summer of Enfield going out to lunch in Primrose Hill with Catherine Shepherd (Thicko, Emmamima, Listeria etc) after he'd split up with his wife, and I couldn't stop myself thinking 'Mwah how are you I'm amazing mwah how are you I'm good mwah how are you incredible mwah how are you?

 

Intriguing!

In 2020 he split from his fashion designer wife, Lucy Enfield (née Lyster).  The children's fashion company his wife had founded was briefly in vogue after designing clothes worn by David Cameron's young daughters at some event... but the company went into administration a year before the Enfields' separation.

Apparently David and the Camerons were friends of the Enfields.

here's my source for that
an "all is rosy" account of the marriage from 2007

If he was in fact having an affair with Shepherd towards the end of his marriage, perhaps it was because they could laugh at things like The Camerons coming around for tea, or Lucy trying to flog her clothes to other snobby families, together. It must have been stifling for a comedian (and of Enfield's brutally honest disposition) to have a play a part in polite society, with all its nonsense.

Then again, maybe Catherine and Harry were just a couple of luvvies going out for lunch on Primrose Hill in that picture - and she was merely indulging his sob stories - and would never even think of him in that way. Perhaps she's married and she and her husband laughed at such speculation when it came out in the press.

As if it would decide the question, I googled for evidence if Shepherd was attached or unattached, but she's managed to keep that information private (and good for her - keeping it from cunts like me). Don't trust online sources that mix her up with an identically named American fiction author.

Captain Z

There's a new Harry & Paul special in the works so it's possible they were meeting just to discuss her involvement.

Twonty Gostelow

They looked more like just pals to me. I was just enjoying imagining them in character.

Retinend

Take that speculation of mine with a tablespoon of salt. I was shipping them.

peteprodge

Quote from: Autopsy Turvey on January 11, 2022, 05:29:22 PMThe Slobs were written with way more affection than the flagrantly sneering Vicki Pollard. They were cartoonish caricatures of disgusting living, like Baldrick or Smudge from the Beano, but beyond that joke both Wayne and Waynetta were utterly loveable and sympathetic characters, whereas VP was just a shit tabloid cipher.

According to Matt Lucas, Vicky Pollard was based on a young Bristol man he interviewed as a vox pop piece as part of a media studies course. The man's responses were full of the "yeah but no but yeah... but..." verbal tics that the character was based around.

I know there's a lot of finger-wagging about comedians portraying the working class, but you know, sometimes, just sometimes, the working class can be right c***s. I think it's vital to take the piss out of idiots of all social backgrounds, although not to punch down of course.

How do we feel about Viz running Eight Ace or The Fat Slags? How do we feel about Steptoe And Son? Shameless? Mandy? I could go on.

And yeah, I admire comedy that takes pot shots at poshos, Frasier did that the best. Much more refreshing than Lee Hurst digitally sneering at imaginary Islington vegans running the country.

beanheadmcginty

Surely the Slobs' portrayal of smoking must have done something beneficial for the nation's health? They made it look so disgusting. I've never smoked a fag in my life. Coincidence?

Gurke and Hare

Quote from: Retinend on January 12, 2022, 09:33:14 AMan "all is rosy" account of the marriage from 2007

To be fair, all could genuinely be rosy 13 years before they split up.

QuoteIt must have been stifling for a comedian (and of Enfield's brutally honest disposition) to have a play a part in polite society, with all its nonsense.

Foxhunting's Harry Enfield? Nah, he'll have been fine with it.

Video Game Fan 2000

Quote from: peteprodge on January 12, 2022, 10:19:00 AMI know there's a lot of finger-wagging about comedians portraying the working class, but you know, sometimes, just sometimes, the working class can be right c***s. I think it's vital to take the piss out of idiots of all social backgrounds, although not to punch down of course.

FWIW I wasn't posting about the Slobs in the spirit of a call out, more that the sketches pushed the needle and anticipated something a lot more common in the next decade. They felt egregious to me at the time because nothing else on the Enfield program was like that, it mostly sneering at middle class affectation. As opposed to Little Britain which is just one stereotype after another, going past like the Generation Game conveyer belt. The context of the Slobs being on a show with Chulmondely-Warner and Richer Than Yow inevitably meant they got pushed to places like "I wanna black baby" that wouldn't have been remotely acceptable otherwise, even in the mid-90s.

In the 1990s, when condescending celebrations of working class 'culture' were everywhere, seeing Steptoe and Son or Python's acid depictions of working class life felt joyous in comparison to the britpop and cool britannia bullshit. Felt good to see something that admitted that some things were just shit. Didn't matter if it was oxbridge types punching down or not, I liked jokes that were being real about shit things being shit. Not aw we're poor but we av a laff sometime and luv each other thats all that matters.

Fambo Number Mive

Imagine being a friend of David Cameron.

Pink Gregory

Quote from: Fambo Number Mive on January 12, 2022, 02:51:10 PMImagine being a friend of David Cameron.

"ooh I played the bass guitar in Blur and now I own a farm a very big farm in the country ooh look at me cheese"

Kankurette

Quote from: Pink Gregory on January 12, 2022, 03:28:09 PM"ooh I played the bass guitar in Blur and now I own a farm a very big farm in the country ooh look at me cheese"
I once posted about how shite Alex James' book was and a Facebook friend who lives in the Cotswolds ran some place where you could paint pottery, and James and his family were regulars. They were also, apparently, rude entitled cunts.

James talks far more about cheese, physics and big nights out at the Groucho in his book than he does about music, which is pretty telling.

Ray Travez

Are the Slobs supposed to be working class? It never quite rang true to me. It bothers someone I know that they were dirty- it's not a feature of working class people, quite the opposite probably.

There's no indication of heavy drug use, but the Slobs remind me of a certain type of dysfunctional alcoholic or drug user, that I suppose would be deemed to be part of 'the underclass.' Even then, they wouldn't be filthy, just chaotic.

Shit Good Nose

#102
Quote from: Kankurette on January 12, 2022, 06:43:54 PMI once posted about how shite Alex James' book was and a Facebook friend who lives in the Cotswolds ran some place where you could paint pottery, and James and his family were regulars. They were also, apparently, rude entitled cunts.

James talks far more about cheese, physics and big nights out at the Groucho in his book than he does about music, which is pretty telling.

His cheese is pretty fucking good to be fair though, certainly much better than anything Blur ever did IMO (not a fan).  But it is one of those fragile blue cheeses that rots within hours unless the storage conditions are absolutely perfect.


Also mark me up as another one who enjoyed the Mandela stuff - so ridiculous I never once thought it was racist, plus the makeup and prosthetics were several levels above blatant blackface.  I also enjoyed the Saffer gym bloke (Pik?) talking about shitting and puking everywhere when drunk.  In fact I'm a fan of the show(s) as a whole.  One of my favourite moments is in one of the Dragon's Den skits and they're marketing an extra month in the calendar.  It's all going swimmingly until one of the Dragons asks them where the extra month is going to be in the year and it cuts back to Harry and Paul and they're immediately drenched in sweat.  I've been in situations like that in the past myself (not on Dragon's Den, obvs).

Twonty Gostelow

I liked most of it, being particularly fond of the I Saw You Coming and Midlife Crisis café sketches. A few recurring ideas I didn't much enjoy, but that's just a matter of taste. I'd say the Curb Your Enthusiasm pisstakes were objectively awful though, and Paul Whitehouse's LD impression was dreadful.

Shit Good Nose

Quote from: Twonty Gostelow on January 13, 2022, 01:07:04 AMI'd say the Curb Your Enthusiasm pisstakes were objectively awful though, and Paul Whitehouse's LD impression was dreadful.

I didn't mind that, mainly because I can't stand Larry David and have always personally thought Curb was very overrated bollocks.  It felt quite well observed to me, as someone who has often wondered if I was watching the same show as everyone else.

buzby

#105
Quote from: Ray Travez on January 13, 2022, 12:21:34 AMAre the Slobs supposed to be working class? It never quite rang true to me. It bothers someone I know that they were dirty- it's not a feature of working class people, quite the opposite probably.
The Slobs are an example of the UK right-wing politicians and press 'benefit scroungers' caricature - uneducated unemployed layabouts who smoke, drink, eat nothing but fast food and have kids to get a council house and get more child allowance.

Quote from: Video Game Fan 2000 on January 12, 2022, 02:17:59 PMFWIW I wasn't posting about the Slobs in the spirit of a call out, more that the sketches pushed the needle and anticipated something a lot more common in the next decade. They felt egregious to me at the time because nothing else on the Enfield program was like that, it mostly sneering at middle class affectation. As opposed to Little Britain which is just one stereotype after another, going past like the Generation Game conveyer belt.
The Scousers wasn't exactly sneering at middle class affectation, and was exactly the stereotype-based humour that got hammered into the ground by Lucas & Walliams.

Kankurette

The best Harry Enfield sketches, for me, were the one-offs like the Terminator parody or Il Postino Pat.

Replies From View

Quote from: Twonty Gostelow on January 12, 2022, 10:11:23 AMThey looked more like just pals to me. I was just enjoying imagining them in character.

People who are more than friends greet each other with an immediate genital fluids exchange, as far as I can ascertain.

Replies From View


Replies From View

Quote from: Kankurette on January 12, 2022, 06:43:54 PMJames talks far more about cheese, physics and big nights out at the Groucho in his book than he does about music, which is pretty telling.

To be fair, all talking is telling really.

Kankurette

It would have been nice if he'd talked more about music though. Him being in Blur and everything.

H-O-W-L

Quote from: Kankurette on January 13, 2022, 11:43:52 AMThe best Harry Enfield sketches, for me, were the one-offs like the Terminator parody or Il Postino Pat.

IL POSTINO PAT has been stuck in my head since I was a child and had a Chums tape.

I also still love the Tory Boy at the Jobcentre sketch.

Pink Gregory

Cholmondley-Warner and Grayson for me, Clive.

Anything in which Enfield does anything approaching a British Pathe style voice is catnip for me.

"Here's a picture of the Duchess of Arbroath without a hat."
"MOST INVIGORATING!"

Autopsy Turvey

Quote from: buzby on January 13, 2022, 08:36:33 AMThe Slobs are an example of the UK right-wing politicians and press 'benefit scroungers' caricature - uneducated unemployed layabouts who smoke, drink, eat nothing but fast food and have kids to get a council house and get more child allowance.

That may be true, but are they the same caricature, or parodies of that caricature? Because muddying this is that fact that they were also the most relatable, sympathetic and human characters in the show, the relationship written with the most affection. Possibly they were more popular with the working class folk who recognised the elements of truth than the middle class folk who get condescendingly uncomfortable with the mockery of social groups that they regard as beneath them.

QuoteThe Scousers wasn't exactly sneering at middle class affectation, and was exactly the stereotype-based humour that got hammered into the ground by Lucas & Walliams.

Well it was making an absurd cartoonish caricature out of the appearance, speech patterns and attitudes of certain characters from Brookside.

HATP really was phenomenally influential; not only does saying "Calm down calm down" in a Scouse accent still have a cultural currency that transcends awareness of its origin, I've got family members who still say "Scuse I pardon I" because of The Bores, characters that Enfield apparently abandoned after one skit because they were too boring. Similarly, people (of a certain age) still use "Is that what you what? Cos that's what'll happen" like it was a long-running catchphrase, when it was only ever used in one sketch.

sevendaughters

Quote from: Autopsy Turvey on January 13, 2022, 02:19:05 PMPossibly they were more popular with the working class folk who recognised the elements of truth than the middle class folk who get condescendingly uncomfortable with the mockery of social groups that they regard as beneath them.

Hi, working class person here remembering those whose dads had jobs but were povs sneering at those whose dads didn't in school after every episode, this IS objectively bollocks. It was classic divide and rule stuff. You don't have to be Captain Contrarian every time there's an opportunity to be so, y'know.

Autopsy Turvey

Quote from: sevendaughters on January 13, 2022, 02:23:50 PMHi, working class person here remembering those whose dads had jobs but were povs sneering at those whose dads didn't in school after every episode, this IS objectively bollocks.

I don't fully understand what this means sorry, "those whose dads had jobs but were povs"? Do you mean that kids ribbed other kids about their unemployed dads being like Wayne Slob? And that this was because of some 'divide and rule' strategy that Enfield/the BBC were engaged in?

QuoteYou don't have to be Captain Contrarian every time there's an opportunity to be so, y'know.

I disagree!

sevendaughters

"I can't understand it", he says, understanding it in the remainder of the sentence.

Kankurette


Video Game Fan 2000

Quote from: buzby on January 13, 2022, 08:36:33 AMThe Scousers wasn't exactly sneering at middle class affectation, and was exactly the stereotype-based humour that got hammered into the ground by Lucas & Walliams.

I get your point (I forgot the Scousers were still going in the mid 90s) but regional stereotypes are a perennial thing whereas 'these people don't have jobs, and what's more they don't want jobs' is something else entirely. The Slobs were a real premonition of 00s era nastiness.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Quote from: Shit Good Nose on January 13, 2022, 01:17:45 AMI didn't mind that, mainly because I can't stand Larry David and have always personally thought Curb was very overrated bollocks.  It felt quite well observed to me, as someone who has often wondered if I was watching the same show as everyone else.
I can stand Larry David, but otherwise agree entirely.