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No Time To Die (Bond 25)

Started by Blue Jam, December 04, 2019, 02:55:16 PM

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Dr Rock

What's the power source for a bionic eye? Does the battery last forever?

beanheadmcginty

I think they're normally plugged into a socket.

Ant Farm Keyboard

Quote from: Kelvin on October 23, 2021, 02:08:55 AM
But Blofeld didn't have a bionic eye, did he? His eye was missing when Bond went to see him, presumably because Primo had it. So was his other eye bionic? He has two bionic eyes?

Blofeld did have one before Nomi searched for it and Bond went to see him.
Primo had various bionic eyes over the years, including one destroyed in Matera, but the model he has in Cuba was the one linked to Blofeld's, the one they carry over some cushion, so Blofeld can have a taste of the celebration.

So, they confiscated Blofeld's bionic eye, hacked into it and saw that Logan Ash had already tried to recuit Primo after the attack in Cuba but before Blofeld's death (and Blofeld knew about the recruitment, as the eye was still plugged in).


Twit 2

Saw this last night. Load of nonsense, but it was well-paced and passed the time. 3/5

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

I also watched it last night. Faint praise, but for all its obvious flaws, I didn't hate it like I did Spectre. I may even go as far as saying I quite enjoyed it. I'd put that down to lowered expectations, but I thought Skyfall was enormously overrated and Spectre still managed to seem like a big pile of plops. Although my ears were getting uncomfortable from the mask, the running time didn't feel like nearly three hours, so it must have done something right.

Fair enough to give Craig the lion's share of the drama, it being his swansong (and he is the main character) but, aside from Seydoux, most of the supporting characters felt half-arsed. While the new 007 wasn't lumbered with the clichéd Strong Woman role (thanks to her actually being written by a woman, I assume) I still didn't get much of a sense of who she was. De Armas' cameo was fun, but I didn't feel like the film was screaming out for more. I pretty much forgot about her once she left (and, after Knives Out it would have been very wrong to see her getting off with Craig). Bond and Leiter were like brothers? They've only met twice before this. Lucifer[nb]Sorry. "Lootsiffer". That's way more subtle.[/nb] Saffin and his henchman, Eyeball Paul barely made an impression. One thing I will say for Spectre is that at least Dave Bautista made for a good heavy.

Was Saffin just using the potential buyers as a means of spreading Heracles? His whole god complex doesn't make sense if he's just going to relinquish control to any Tom, Dick and Harry.

The action scenes varied between mediocre and pretty decent. The big motorbike stunt in the opening scene might have been thrilling, if it hadn't been filmed from so far away. Most of the shootouts gave no sense of the space, so it was just the heroes firing offscreen, at baddies whose presence barely had time to register. I didn't clock any obvious hidden cuts during the the big one-take scene, which is technically impressive, but it still suffered from baddies dying almost as soon as they appeared, which undercuts the tension. Also, Bond shrugged off point blank explosions, not once, not twice, but thrice, with nothing but a bit of tinitus to show for it. All that was missing was him going "Malp".
Spoiler alert
After all that, can we even be sure the missiles killed him?
[close]

I assume it's a coincidence - maybe due to archetypes and whatnot - but it was hard to ignore all the plot points it shared with Avengers Endgame (and the bit with the baddies shooting up the Aston Martin was lifted wholesale from Captain America 2 - although this was more nailbiting, thanks to Madeline freaking out). Admittedly, I was more invested in the Marvel films than I ever have been with Bond, but I think this did it all less effectively. Endgame had me welling up, whereas I barely batted an eyelid at the end of this and that was 99% down to Hans Zimmer going all out on the score.

Kelvin

Quote from: Ant Farm Keyboard on October 23, 2021, 04:40:03 AM
Blofeld did have one before Nomi searched for it and Bond went to see him.

That's the line I must have missed. Thanks for clarifying.

eagle_bearer

I saw this last week. I'm no Mark Kermode, but here goes. I give this movie a thumbs-up rating.

Don't worry, that wasn't the real review!

I do give this a thumbs up, though. I thought the tone was spot on, by which I mean it had the right amount of silliness without going too far. Invisible cars, laser guns in space - no thanks. Bionic eyes, nanobots - yes please. Started really well with an exciting opening sequence in a beautiful location, and then went on to be well-paced throughout. The story kept moving and there was always some action around the corner. I didn't ever feel bored and it didn't feel nearly three hours long. Arse was a bit sore by the final act, though.
Spoiler alert
I thought the ending was tragic and moving. It was a bold move and obviously original for a Bond film. The OHMSS references in the soundtrack and dialogue were well done.
[close]

Daniel Craig was good and is probably the best Bond. I know he has an advantage over the other actors in that his era has been the first time they've tried to flesh the character out a little more, but he's played it well and deserves credit. Ben Whishaw is my favourite Q. Ana de Armas was fun and it would have been nice to have seen a bit more of her. Not in that way! As in screen time.

A couple of minor niggles, sure.
Spoiler alert
Safin was, as most have said, somewhat undercooked, and the deaths of Safin and Blofeld were a little perfunctory and anti-climactic. Shame as I thought Waltz and Malek were actually good with the little they had to do.
[close]
But nothing is perfect. That's life. Also not bothered about the complaints of Safin's plans not making sense. Since when did any Bond villains plans make much sense? 

006 marks out of 007.

Spoiler alert
What now for the Bond franchise? There will definitely be another film, but in what form will they reboot things? Going back to the start of his 00 career? That's been done with Casino Royale. Perhaps a pre-00 Bond, but do we want to see a Bond stripped of too many of the things that make him Bond? An old-school standalone Bond film with no concerns RE continuity? Maybe too safe an option considering the effort EON have made over the past 15 years to do things differently, such as rebooting the franchise, changing the ethnicity of characters, killing Bond etc. Hmm. Who knows?
[close]

Ant Farm Keyboard

They'll likely go the way The Batman goes for the reboot, taking some elements from the Craig fleshed out version. A young Bond, who's not on his first mission, has some unmentioned trust issues with women and is a womanizer.

It remains to be seen whether we'll see SPECTRE and Blofeld again. My guess is that they'll update SPECTRE and use it sparingly, but Blofeld is too much of a caricature today to really work.
Blofeld's reveal was effective in YOLT because there had been a buildup about him since From Russia with Love. Best version was probably Savalas in OHMSS. But there have been too many variations and caricatures (even inside the franchise) for him to carry some kind of real menace. He's just an old dude with a Persian cat who's obsessed with world domination.

Old Nehamkin

I thought the tone was balanced well enough between the silly and the earnest elements of the film. It's perfectly possible to accommodate campy, outlandish plot elements like bionic eyes, magnetic lift shafts and nanobot technology while still selling sincere emotional beats and meaningful dramatic stakes, and I think the filmmakers walked that tightrope pretty well with only a couple of wobbles (the comedy Russian scientist character could probably have been played a notch less broad, for example).

Someone mentioned that it's weird to imagine this film as taking place in the same universe as Casino Royale, and that's true, but for me that kind of flexibility of scope and tone between films is a big part of what makes this series fun and endearing. I like the entries that are relatively grounded and restrained (as much as a Bond film can be) and I also like the ones that feature space travel and satellites made of diamonds and planes that go underwater and, yes, even invisible cars.

Thomas

Quote from: Kelvin on October 22, 2021, 10:47:39 PM
Shouldn't there be a bigger thematic motive for the villain beyond selling weapons? I had assumed that, after Spectre, he was going to target all the world's criminals and corrupt politicians, so he actually served as a contrast to Bond. But he didn't seem to have any motive beyond killing Spectre then selling the weapon. It seemed too mundane and impersonal for a finale like this.

Safin must have been mangled in the edit, because Malek spoke in interviews about his motivations being somewhat sympathetic, if tyrannical, which would chime with what you initially assumed. In the end he was just selling a weapon and doing a short, nothingy monologue.

Or perhaps his original motivations were deemed a bit too Thanosy, and were diluted until he became a generic baddie.

Kelvin

Quote from: Thomas on October 27, 2021, 10:25:59 AM
Safin must have been mangled in the edit, because Malek spoke in interviews about his motivations being somewhat sympathetic, if tyrannical, which would chime with what you initially assumed. In the end he was just selling a weapon and doing a short, nothingy monologue.

Or perhaps his original motivations were deemed a bit too Thanosy, and were diluted until he became a generic baddie.

I have a theory that his original motivation was to target / kill all the world's bastards (inspired by his hatred of Spectre), but they rewrote it / edited it out when they realised audiences might actually agree with that motivation a bit too much, and it would be hard to have
Spoiler alert
Bond's sacrifice stem from him attempting to save the lives of every corrupt politician and terrorist.
[close]

This would also explain why they never properly expanded on the mysterious unidentified people on the disc, as they would have been later revealed as criminals (or whatever), but that had to be cut.

This also would have given the film a theme - Bond and MI6 want these people removed, but on their own terms - whereas the finished film has no depth whatsoever. Even Safin's speech about being "tidier" would make more sense.

Thomas

Quote from: Kelvin on October 27, 2021, 10:49:16 AM
This would also explain why they never properly expanded on the mysterious unidentified people on the disc, as they would have been later revealed as criminals (or whatever), but that had to be cut.

Thankfully a draft featuring Sir David Amess MP as the target was changed at the last minute.

SteveDave

This is available now.

We watched the first hour and 3/4 last night with the last hour saved for this evening before "Taskmaster"

It was alright. I do like how Daniel Craig is slowly morphing into David Bamber and, I never got Peter Serafinowicz doing Ralph Fiennes as Leonard Rossiter until seeing him in this.

sevendaughters

Quote from: Kelvin on October 27, 2021, 10:49:16 AM
I have a theory that his original motivation was to target / kill all the world's bastards (inspired by his hatred of Spectre), but they rewrote it / edited it out when they realised audiences might actually agree with that motivation a bit too much, and it would be hard to have
Spoiler alert
Bond's sacrifice stem from him attempting to save the lives of every corrupt politician and terrorist.
[close]

which is a shame because they never commit to the 'morally ambiguous' bit of the morally ambiguous Bond or secret service. Like M's redemption for inventing a mass cuntoff weapon is that at least he raised a glass to send off his pal. Pal, it was kinda your fault! MI6 would have a vested interest in saving the cunt politicians of the world too, but they have to show them as heroes rather than complicit. One of a billion reasons why JLC was better.

amputeeporn

Only just seen this so need to catch up with the thread, but what's the consensus? I thought it was the definition of fine for what it was, if not somewhat worse than that at times.

As it becomes more and more overblown, you really get the unvarnished side of how far they've strayed from the cool menace of Casino Royale, with its outbursts of extreme, often brutally realistic violence and women who looked like they might actually want to fuck Daniel Craig.

It's a shame there's no antagonist in this film - or even any jeopardy, which is ridiculous
Spoiler alert
considering he actually dies.
[close]
The only problem I can really think of with having a black Bond next is that the convention is for the series to cover its arse with occasional lines about how violent men like Bond are really the problem - despicable products of a failed system. Not sure they'd be up for the optics of having a black guy getting told why people like him are the problem with Britain/the world. Especially given how clunkily race was brought in with the new 007.
Spoiler alert
She's keeping that rubbish Dr Robotonik guy alive, but the moment he really mentions race (What? Why is he racist? What kind of loser was M working with?) she murders him in cold blood.
[close]

As a result, she's completely reduced to race as a character, and I thought the decision to make her a sneering bitch showed that just copying Bond's characteristics and dropping them into people who don't fit the template isn't as simple as it seems. Or perhaps it could be, but it certainly doesn't work here.

Rami Malek was completely pointless. I don't blame him necessarily because they gave him fuck all to work with, but
Spoiler alert
his fucking Shakespearian death
[close]
speech was hilarious because you got the sense that
Spoiler alert
even though he'd killed Bond, he still hadn't really made much of an impression on him.
[close]

Loved the shot of all the
Spoiler alert
women/little girls/women of colour crying about Bond being dead. It felt like the film was saying: 'Well, there you go - you got what you wanted! Happy now?'
[close]

Spoiler alert
Bond's wake looked like a gathering being held for a total loser. Something he'd have hated to be around for himself. Dour, humourless, and completely lacking style or substance.
[close]

Head Gardener


Shaky

Thought this was incredibly dull, and the plot made no sense whatsoever (even by Bond standards). My GF and I were in hysterics when
Spoiler alert
Blofeld was trundling along in his little cage to meet Bond
[close]
.

Honestly glad the Craig era has come to an end. He looked bored throughout, and it's no longer shocking to
Spoiler alert
kill people off. When Leiter died my eyes nearly rolled out of my skull. Also, what the fuck where they thinking not to have the ultimate face off between Blofeld and Bond? A feeble attempt at another "shock" early death.
[close]

greenman

Finally got around to watching it and I would say "decent enough", plot is largely nonsense but I wouldnt say the film was really depending on it for much of tis impact.

I did think it was a bit more sucessful in bringing back "fun" than Spectre was were I think the self serious Gucci ad style didnt really mesh with it. Craig did seem like a man happy to be on the way out to me(although the smugness being dialed down was something new I spose)and it ends up being the rest of the cast who give it a more personality.

Quote from: Ant Farm Keyboard on October 24, 2021, 01:16:14 AMThey'll likely go the way The Batman goes for the reboot, taking some elements from the Craig fleshed out version. A young Bond, who's not on his first mission, has some unmentioned trust issues with women and is a womanizer.

It remains to be seen whether we'll see SPECTRE and Blofeld again. My guess is that they'll update SPECTRE and use it sparingly, but Blofeld is too much of a caricature today to really work.
Blofeld's reveal was effective in YOLT because there had been a buildup about him since From Russia with Love. Best version was probably Savalas in OHMSS. But there have been too many variations and caricatures (even inside the franchise) for him to carry some kind of real menace. He's just an old dude with a Persian cat who's obsessed with world domination.

Really I think Mr White ended up being a much more threatening antagonist in the Craig films as he didnt have all that bagage to him.

Given that this will probably be the cleanest break ever for Bond(even Craig had Dench holding over) Im wondering if we might not see a period reboot, set it back in the 60's.

Ant Farm Keyboard

There won't be any period piece, because these films rely on gadgets, even if those were dialed down during the Craig years. Audiences expect some cutting edge technology, not something that would look straight out of a steampunk convention. Besides, if they go back to the past, but carry a contemporary sensibility to various issues (I doubt that audiences could swallow the sexism and racism from the sixties films), what's the point?

And the films couldn't do product placement. That alone kills any perspective of doing a period piece.

greenman

Quote from: Ant Farm Keyboard on December 22, 2021, 03:22:15 PMThere won't be any period piece, because these films rely on gadgets, even if those were dialed down during the Craig years. Audiences expect some cutting edge technology, not something that would look straight out of a steampunk convention. Besides, if they go back to the past, but carry a contemporary sensibility to various issues (I doubt that audiences could swallow the sexism and racism from the sixties films), what's the point?

And the films couldn't do product placement. That alone kills any perspective of doing a period piece.

I think you could argue actually that a modern setting makes it harder to play up gadgets as the zeigest today is towards computers and the net rather than physical gadgets of the Bond of old, its now mostly just cut aways to Q looking at a computer screen. I mean they already brought back the classic Aston partly because that made it having guns under the headlamps easier to sell.

Product placement wise I would say Bond has always tended to focus on brands you could still include in a 60's set film, Aston, Rolex, etc. If anything you could probably get away with showing them a bit more in a period film under the guise of "retro cool".

PlanktonSideburns

Quote from: greenman on December 22, 2021, 01:23:24 PMFinally got around to watching it and I would say "decent enough", plot is largely nonsense but I wouldnt say the film was really depending on it for much of tis impact.

I did think it was a bit more sucessful in bringing back "fun" than Spectre was were I think the self serious Gucci ad style didnt really mesh with it. Craig did seem like a man happy to be on the way out to me(although the smugness being dialed down was something new I spose)and it ends up being the rest of the cast who give it a more personality.

Really I think Mr White ended up being a much more threatening antagonist in the Craig films as he didnt have all that bagage to him.

Given that this will probably be the cleanest break ever for Bond(even Craig had Dench holding over) Im wondering if we might not see a period reboot, set it back in the 60's.

Let's go back to the 1800(?)s, make bond a castrati working for the pope

jamiefairlie

Quote from: bgmnts on December 04, 2019, 06:00:27 PMI hate that Hans Zimmer-esque Bond theme.

Daniel Craig looks old as fuck but has insanely blue eyes which is weird.

Lots of black people in it which is good I suppose.


D. W. Griffith concurs

Dr Rock

They should let Tarantino do one, let Taika Waititi do one, let George Miller do one, etc for a few years.

dissolute ocelot

Just watched this. Fine but a bit half arsed. A lot of the action was tv quality even if it kept moving, small car chases and corridors and stairwells. General lack of spectacle compared to Spectre and others. Lots of plot holes but par for the course (did M just get away with it? Whose ships were they? Why all the effort to save Madeleine by UK governmentt especially given what happened before? etc)

And while I can understand in artistic terms going from pretty and clichéd to dull and serious, far too much with dull forests and small concrete interiors. Lots of weird close ups of Craig's face looking tired. And elements like Blofeld were wasted.

The villain was unthreatening. But again you don't often get a good villain. More effort with characters than usual and I'd happily watch an American spin-off.

I guess I'm semi interested with what comes next which is a lot more interest than usual. Bond is always better with a partner or team so who the team is will matter as much as the star, assuming they don't cast next Bond very oddly.

Kelvin

The best bit of this film is where Jim rides the bike and the bike goes into the air for a long time.

homesickalien

For anyone who's arsed - all the Bond films are being shown again on the big screen.

Have taken the following from my local cinema's website:


15 April: Dr. No
22 April: From Russia With Love
29 April: Goldfinger
6 May: Thunderball
13 May: You Only Live Twice
20 May: On Her Majesty's Secret Service
27 May: Diamonds Are Forever
3 June: Live & Let Die
10 June: The Man With The Golden Gun
17 June: The Spy Who Loved Me
24 June: Moonraker
1 July: For Your Eyes Only
8 July: Octopussy
15 July: A View To Kill
22 July: The Living Daylights
29 July: Licence To Kill
5 August: GoldenEye
12 August: Tomorrow Never Dies
19 August: The World Is Not Enough
26 August: Die Another Day
2 September: Casino Royale
9 September: Quantum of Solace
16 September: Skyfall
23 September: Spectre
30 September: No Time To Die

Rich Uncle Skeleton

cheers, I hadn't heard a thing about that! definitely a small handful i'd love to see in a cinema if the prices aren't ridiculous

edit - quick glance shows it's 7 quid to watch On Her Majesty's Secret Service with currently only two other people in the room, not bad

JamesTC

Got a cinema pass so going to try and see them all. Especially looking forward to seeing Licence to Kill on the big screen.

surreal

Typically, Cineworld are limiting this to selected cinemas and completely ignoring Birmingham.  It's times like this I wish I lived nearer London so I could have a lot more options for what I can see on the big screen.  Shame, I'd have loved to see Live and Let Die and You Only Live Twice