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March 28, 2024, 06:46:39 PM

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Joss Whedon

Started by Custard, February 11, 2021, 01:14:46 PM

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Elderly Sumo Prophecy

Joss Paedon

The fuck kind of name is Joss anyway? Twat.

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: Chedney Honks on February 11, 2021, 06:55:32 PM
I remember my wife telling me she'd read that Buffy is consistently the most popular TV show among paedos. I'll never forget it because my mate fucking loved it. He married an older woman but that

The saddest thing is that you

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: Elderly Sumo Prophecy on February 11, 2021, 08:16:30 PM
Joss Paedon

The fuck kind of name is Joss anyway? Twat.

Unlike the best Joss, he doesn't even have a spunky backpack.

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

Quote from: Lord Mandrake on February 11, 2021, 07:42:41 PM
I don't have much sympathy for people who put career before dignity.
lol fuck you


Phil_A

Quote from: Lord Mandrake on February 11, 2021, 07:42:41 PM
I don't have much sympathy for people who put career before dignity.

Yeah they selfishly wanted to be able to keep eating and paying their bills instead of getting blacklisted by the industry. What utter bastards, eh.

JamesTC

I have an enormous amount of sympathy for them. Particularly a single mother who had coped with being victimised for years before getting it worse than ever once she had the audacity to get pregnant in order to keep working in an industry which chews you up and spits you out.

Lord Mandrake

Yeah, they had no choice whatsoever, it was this or destitution and death by malnourishment. Enable abusive behaviour through silence, or die homeless.

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

Quote from: Lord Mandrake on February 11, 2021, 08:46:47 PM
Yeah, they had no choice whatsoever, it was this or destitution and death by malnourishment. Enable abusive behaviour through silence, or die homeless.
remember rape victims, if you don't go to the police and subject yourself to a trial in which a barrister stands up and calls you a lying drunk little slut, you're responsible for all the rapes your rapist goes on to commit

fuck those kids Jimmy Saville diddled, they're all responsible for not saying anything. They're the real villains here.

Lord Mandrake

Oh, sorry I didn't know they had all been raped by Jimmy Saville. I thought it was some actors complaining of bullying.

JamesTC


bgmnts

I dont think bullying is akin to rape. Pretty sure everyone here has been the victim of bullying in some form. Might be trivialising rape victims by making an equivalency.

Lord Mandrake

I know it isn't. ^ reply

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

Quote from: Lord Mandrake on February 11, 2021, 08:50:41 PM
Oh, sorry I didn't know they had all been raped by Jimmy Saville. I thought it was some actors complaining of bullying.
What, it's the same logic isn't it? "Enable abusive behaviour through silence", that's what you said.

Quote from: bgmnts on February 11, 2021, 08:52:42 PM
I dont think bullying is akin to rape. Pretty sure everyone here has been the victim of bullying in some form. Might be trivialising rape victims by making an equivalency.
Eat shit. Lord Fuckdrake is blaming a victim of abusive behaviour for continued abusive behaviour by an abuser. Makes no difference whether that's adults keeping quiet because their career is on the line, or keeping quiet out of fear, or keeping quiet because of wanting to forget it happened.

Kelvin

Quote from: Lord Mandrake on February 11, 2021, 08:46:47 PM
Yeah, they had no choice whatsoever, it was this or destitution and death by malnourishment. Enable abusive behaviour through silence, or die homeless.

This whole thing was kicked off by Ray Fisher, the actor who played Cyborg in Justice League, coming out with accusations against Whedon*. His accusations were ultimately proven true by an internal investigation, but not before Warner Bros lied about him, dragged his name through the mud, and cut him from the upcoming Flash movie. He's probably backlisted across Hollywood now. It's not hard to see why someone would tolerate awful working conditions in order to protect their career in a notoriously fickle industry. 

*Among others.

Custard

You can just imagine everyone on a set at that time advising her to just keep quiet. The Me Too movement was still 20 years away. From all accounts it was much, much harder to be listened to then. Plus Charisma Carpenter was a very young woman. Maybe she feared even worse reprisals if she spoke up

Although it wasn't sexual abuse it was still abuse, straight up bullying and harassment, and it's given her years of mental anguish way after it took place. He has to be held accountable or at least feel shame about that

Though I highly doubt he's grown up and matured, as Ray Fisher is accusing him of being an abusive hateful cunt on the set of Justice League

bgmnts

Quote from: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on February 11, 2021, 08:55:31 PM
What, it's the same logic isn't it? "Enable abusive behaviour through silence", that's what you said.
Eat shit. Lord Fuckdrake is blaming a victim of abusive behaviour for continued abusive behaviour by an abuser. Makes no difference whether that's adults keeping quiet because their career is on the line, or keeping quiet out of fear, or keeping quiet because of wanting to forget it happened.

All I said was bullying and rape aren't the same thing.


Wonderful Butternut

Quote from: Lord Mandrake on February 11, 2021, 08:50:41 PM
Oh, sorry I didn't know they had all been raped by Jimmy Saville. I thought it was some actors complaining of bullying.

So just because they were working in a 'nice' industry that can pay well, a teenage actor should know that there's no chance that they'll be ignored and their career decimated, if they call out someone with greater standing in industry than them, and if they fail to do so they're a flawed or bad person?

Boil your head, mate.

madhair60

as we all know escaping from abusive situations is incredibly easy and really not complex at all

Phil_A

Quote from: bgmnts on February 11, 2021, 08:52:42 PM
I dont think bullying is akin to rape. Pretty sure everyone here has been the victim of bullying in some form. Might be trivialising rape victims by making an equivalency.

Right, so anyone who's a victim of psychological or physical abuse should shut the fuck up and deal with it, after all it's not like they've been raped is it? Just a bit of harmless bullying, yeah?

Fucking hot take garbage.

It's interesting because in the past the idea of an abrasive, hostile or even toxic on set environment was seen as a place where the tension became magic on film. There needed to be antagonism. It was never seen as abuse. Hollywood didn't have an HR department to report this stuff to.

You think of the weirdness of the dynamic between actor and director. Extreme examples like Kinski and Herzog, which must have been hell to be around for other cast and crew. Or actors who play method and stay in character during the entirety of filming, what kind of psychological impact would that have on everyone else? There's a sense in entertainment that nobody will ever speak out when their career is in its infancy. The exploited and the abused will to a degree tolerate mistreatment for the greater good of their careers. It seems like such a messed up industry.

The bigger question is, how can this change? What will reshape the industry, and protect people from being abused and exploited?

I was thinking about this in regards to pop music. When Jesy Nelson left Little Mix, critics seemed to question her decision, but when you think of the relentless nature of being in a world renowned pop group, working conditions must be hell. The grind of record-tour-promote. What time is there for the pop star to take a break, form relationships and have some kind of work life balance.

bgmnts

Quote from: Phil_A on February 11, 2021, 09:11:56 PM
Right, so anyone who's a victim of psychological or physical abuse should shut the fuck up and deal with it, after all it's not like they've been raped is it? Just a bit of harmless bullying, yeah?

Fucking hot take garbage.

Nope.

Johnny Yesno

Quote from: bgmnts on February 11, 2021, 08:57:44 PM
All I said was bullying and rape aren't the same thing.

Workplace bullying can make your life miserable, as I can attest having been the victim of it by a colleague. And I just didn't know what to do about it, given that my boss at the time was useless and the management were trying to force through unpopular changes. I ended up leaving.

At least when it's straightforward management against workers, it's easier to see how your trade union can help.

Custard

Yeah, it's been going on for years. Kubrick being ridiculously hard on Shelley Duvall on the set of The Shining, for example. Hearing how much that upset Duvall has definitely soured me on Kubrick

But here the difference is Whedon wasn't doing it to get better or "more realistic" performances from Carpenter, he was doing it, according to her, simply because he disliked her and then it got even worse once she dared get pregnant. That's straight up harassment and bullying

Also least you can eventually escape a film set after a few months. This was years. Though obviously neither scenario should be acceptable

Spiteface

Quote from: Shameless Custard on February 11, 2021, 05:50:11 PM
I wonder if Eliza Dushku will comment in any way? She of course did a few different shows with him, and she's always spoken very highly of him. Who knows. Maybe he's just been a cunt to a select few. Doesn't excuse it in any way, of course

That would be interesting. It would explain her appearing on Buffy/Angel so sporadically, maybe even why she turned down a pitched Faith spinoff, and her not being invited to a big cast reunion to mark the 20th anniversary of Buffy. But then she worked with him on Dollhouse.

Custard

I think what really irks about this one is that Whedon has always been held up as some kind of feminist, who writes great female characters, is great and understanding with female actors, and never put misogynistic or sexist bollocks into his work. He was very well liked and respected by female fans for these reasons

Then this all comes out, the mask slips, and suddenly he's just a massive cunt. I can see why it'd upset his fans

Though let's face it, he's pretty much done now. And it is a waste, as he clearly is talented. But if all this is true, then he shouldn't be allowed to be in a position to ever do it again

It was only a year or so ago that he was trying to get a Batgirl film off the ground. Eventually he claimed he "couldn't find the story", so backed out. Clearly DC or Warners told him to do one, maybe they knew all this was about to come out

bgmnts

Quote from: Johnny Yesno on February 11, 2021, 09:28:54 PM
Workplace bullying can make your life miserable, as I can attest having been the victim of it by a colleague. And I just didn't know what to do about it, given that my boss at the time was useless and the management were trying to force through unpopular changes. I ended up leaving.

At least when it's straightforward management against workers, it's easier to see how your trade union can help.

I was in the exact situation. I just learnt that some people are bullies and that's what society creates. Dont think anyone can change it.

Wonderful Butternut

Quote from: bgmnts on February 11, 2021, 08:57:44 PM
All I said was bullying and rape aren't the same thing.

It's not, but this particular conversation comes from a tit dismissing abusive behaviour and denigrating the victims for not coming forward. The distinction between rape and bullying is not actually relevant for that conversation. The principle is the same even the severity of the abuse isn't.

Jumblegraws

Quote from: Lord Mandrake on February 11, 2021, 07:42:41 PM
I don't have much sympathy for people who put career before dignity.
Fucking hell, I was naive enough to think the days when shameless victim blaming like this would rear its head on CaB were long gone

jobotic

#89
Quote from: Pranet on February 11, 2021, 05:32:56 PM

If it turns out Vic Marks is an arsehole that'll be the last of my faith in humanity gone.

He's lovely isn't he?

When I was at school someone who got angry had a "right weedon" so this is hardly surprising. The way to defeat them was to shout "weedon abaht it!!!" like you were selling the Evening Standard at a tube station.