David Baddiel to tell us about online abuse

[Johnny Yesno]

Um he addresses it here actually

"This is not the kind of exhaustive apology that some performers, including myself, have given for the historic transgression of playing minorities when they are not a member of that minority."

'Playing minorities' lol

[Armin Meiwes]

Haha i was kind of joking but.. maybe that really is what he's alluding to! Shit!

[Video Game Fan 2000]

Always happy to see bad ideas get detestable spokespeople. Who could read that article and come away thinking "yes, authenticity is important and things are always more complicated that I think!!!" instead of this grift again huh

[idunnosomename]

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2022/jan/12/helen-mirren-golda-meir-maureen-lipman-david-baddiel-row-jews-bojack-horseman

It's all just an opportunity to make it about him and his book, isn't it? What a shit writer, too.

Gonna say. Fucking hell. If I was subbing this it'd just put a red line through the lot of this so-called sentence and comment "write this properly you lazy cunt". And it's not just pedantry, it's genuinely excruciating to understand

I'm going to claim some credit – or, for those (and it seems there are many) who hate this suggestion, responsibility – for this, because I'm aware that Lipman (like Sarah Silverman, who said something very similar as regards the castings of Kathryn Hahn as Joan Rivers and Felicity Jones as Ruth Bader Ginsburg) has read my book Jews Don't Count.

Out in paperback February 3rd!

[Ferris]

Oh does he have a book out? He never mentions it.

[Bernice]

Gonna say. Fucking hell. If I was subbing this it'd just put a red line through the lot of this so-called sentence and comment "write this properly you lazy cunt". And it's not just pedantry, it's genuinely excruciating to understand

Had the exact same response to that sentence. Also this pissed me off:

The Netflix animation BoJack Horseman is a stone-cold masterpiece, but the show's creator, Raphael Bob-Waksberg, has apologised profusely because an Vietnamese American character in it, Diane Nguyen, is voiced by the not-Vietnamese at all Alison Brie.

In Bojack Horseman, there is another character called Lenny Turteltaub. He's a turtle, but a very Jewish one, a very Jewish Hollywood producer stereotype, and he's played by JK Simmons, who is not Jewish. There has been no outcry about that, and Waksberg has seen no need to get anguished about it.

First of all, Waksberg actually spoke with a deal mor e nuance and insight about colourblind casting and the character of Diane in particular, talking about how the character was somewhat hamstrung by being almost arbitrarily made Asian when neither the actress playing her nor any of the writers writing for her were.

Which leads one to the obvious point: given Waksberg is himself Jewish, he probably had no such issues around writing a Jewish character, regardless of who provided the voice.

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

Had the exact same response to that sentence. Also this pissed me off:

First of all, Waksberg actually spoke with a deal mor e nuance and insight about colourblind casting and the character of Diane in particular, talking about how the character was somewhat hamstrung by being almost arbitrarily made Asian when neither the actress playing her nor any of the writers writing for her were.

Which leads one to the obvious point: given Waksberg is himself Jewish, he probably had no such issues around writing a Jewish character, regardless of who provided the voice.

I'm pretty sure that either Bojack or Princess Carolyn directly ask Lenny if he's "really Jewish" because "I feel like some of those [Yiddish words] you're making up".

[Captain Z]

Can't believe they didn't even audition any horses for the voice of Bojack.

[idunnosomename]

horseface

[Video Game Fan 2000]

I also thought it was a joke that Turtletaub wasn't actually Jewish.

[Famous Mortimer]

Um he addresses it here actually

"This is not the kind of exhaustive apology that some performers, including myself, have given for the historic transgression of playing minorities when they are not a member of that minority."

This must be an apology he made to his bathroom mirror because all I remember is him using a bunch of weasel words - "an incident of blackface occurred" and shit like that.

[idunnosomename]

Weasely as a weasel who just become head of weaseling at weasel weasel weasel dot com. This is the whole of the article, second letter included because its like a cherry on the top.

Fri 20 Sep 2013 16.00 EDT

In a letter from Gavin Lewis (19 September), in response to my article on the chanting of the word Yid at football matches, he claims my opinion has no worth because, in Fantasy Football, I was made up as the black footballer Jason Lee, and this was clearly racist. So, Robert Downey Jr can have no opinion on racism; Matt Lucas and David Walliams can have no opinion on racism; Kayvan Novak can have no opinion on racism; Harry Enfield can have no opinion on racism; Leigh Francis can have no opinion on racism. That aside, let's say, Dr Lewis, it was deeply, deeply wrong. Perhaps it was. But I believe two of them don't actually make a right.
David Baddiel
London

• This prompts the obvious question: when will we challenge the use of the – disgusting to most of us – N word, ubiquitous in rap?
Pat Bolster
Bristol

Lol. Perhaps.

[buttgammon]

I genuinely love the fact that this has followed him around. He's not the only 90s comedian to have blacked up of course - there's the Otis Redding and Marvin Gaye things Vic and Bob did for example, but the spirit was clearly different (whereas Lee was clearly distressed by the damage it did), the characters weren't otherwise reliant on stereotypes of black people and they haven't consistently tried to take the moral high ground on racism since. Vic and Bob are brilliantly funny too, whereas David Baddiel...you get the idea. What a twat.

[Pink Gregory]

Also Vic and Bob stopped blacking up to do Otis and Marvin after 1 series.

[idunnosomename]

Since theyre both from south yorks, their geordie face is inexcusable.

[Video Game Fan 2000]

I agree with David Baddiel and Russell T Davis, Martin Heidegger was right. Authenticity is the only thing that matters.

[Mr_Simnock]

Schrödinger's whites

[Johnny Yesno]

And Harry Enfield was going for a realistic impression of Nelson Mandela doing completely implausible things. I don't know if in the end Enfield's blackface is excusable, but portraying an aging and quite frail international symbol of peace selling his own brand 'fighting beer' has an entirely different motive from handing football twats a chant mocking a black footballer's hair.

[buttgammon]

Also Vic and Bob stopped blacking up to do Otis and Marvin after 1 series.

Yes, that too. I'm rewatching that series at the moment and I do wince a little whenever they appear but the context is worlds away from Baddiel's nastiness.

[idunnosomename]

honestly the blackface is a separate taboo to just generally being racist and a bully. the fact that he can fob it off as "cancelled for blackface" is just a convenient loophole.

[chveik]

I agree with David Baddiel and Russell T Davis, Martin Heidegger was right. Authenticity is the only thing that matters.

lol

seriously though Golda Meir was a dreadful cunt. i wonder if they'll keep "There was no such thing as Palestinians" moment in the film.

[Video Game Fan 2000]

This is going to be a difficult installment of Badass Bitches From History to make.

[Bigfella]

Has he genuinely forgotten he did blackface or is he so un-self aware that he can't see the hypocrisy?

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2022/jan/12/helen-mirren-golda-meir-maureen-lipman-david-baddiel-row-jews-bojack-horseman

It's all just an opportunity to make it about him and his book, isn't it? What a shit writer, too.

Wow, the man's got no shame!  Look how he steams right in, effectively claiming 'the celebs who actually matter have obviously been massively influenced by my extremely important and clever book.'  He should have called the book 'Only my opinion counts.' 

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

I mean, I think the point about Diane Nguyen being voiced by a non-Asian actor (who incidentally has a Jewish mother) is that it's incredibly difficult for Asian voice actors to get work at all, so please don't create an Asian animated character and not even audition Asian voice actors thanks. (See also black animated characters voiced by white people). I don't know if it's difficult for Jewish actors to get work, but two characters on BoJack Horseman were voiced by Jewish actors.

[Mr Banlon]

Has he genuinely forgotten he did blackface or is he so un-self aware that he can't see the hypocrisy?

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2022/jan/12/helen-mirren-golda-meir-maureen-lipman-david-baddiel-row-jews-bojack-horseman

It's all just an opportunity to make it about him and his book, isn't it? What a shit writer, too.

"This article was amended on 12 January 2022. An earlier version referred to Tom Rosenthal having publicly "disavowed" his Jewish heritage; this was revised to "does not consider himself Jewish". "

[wrec]

lol

seriously though Golda Meir was a dreadful cunt. i wonder if they'll keep "There was no such thing as Palestinians" moment in the film.

He's been trying to keep his antisemitism campaigning away from any discussion of Israel, and bringing it up to Jewish people is (with some justification) seen as antisemitic, but he's too into the grift to avoid it indefinitely. He'll either be defending someone vocally Zionist before long (if he hasn't already) or be invited to Israel to talk about antisemitism in the UK or cancel culture.

Another route I'd predict: "David Baddiel referred to himself as an "atheist Jew". But when a health scare / troll attack forced him to face his own mortality, he decided to explore the spiritual roots of his heritage. Baddiel in Israel, a six part series on BBC2".

[Sebastian Cobb]

I don't think it's entirely fair to pillory the people involved in Bojack for the Nguyen thing without taking into account they did acknowledge it as a poor decision and made a conscious effort to step up diversity in their voice actors later on.

[Johnny Yesno]

Another route I'd predict: "David Baddiel referred to himself as an "atheist Jew". But when a health scare / troll attack forced him to face his own mortality, he decided to explore the spiritual roots of his heritage with absolutely no preparation or research. See him deal with the hilarious consequences using his trademark Renaissance Man wit and flare. Baddiel in Israel, a six part series on BBC2".

Added a bit.

[king_tubby]

I wonder if he's changed his tune on Borat now?

https://twitter.com/baddiel/status/1319762571054977025?lang=ca

[Sebastian Cobb]

Also if Baddiel spent 3 seconds googling he'd have found this interview with the creator of Bojack which came about as a result of him saying on twitter he 'd rather discuss the Diane thing in an interview

https://uproxx.com/tv/bojack-horseman-diversity-diane-interview-raphael-bob-waksberg-alison-brie/

Something I wasn't aware of is that they did actually cast an Asian actress originally who pulled out after they'd started recording and it was then that they hastily filled it with Brie.

They auditioned a few Asian actresses but "couldn't quite find what we were looking for," citing Diane being a "very tricky role" and a "tall order for any actress" (and it doesn't help that he wasn't as experienced directing actors, and pushed the auditions in directions that didn't work for Diane.) But he also brings up how there are "fewer Asian-American actresses out there who have the experience as some of these white actresses [because] they don't have the opportunities," (I point out this is a vicious cycle — BoJack Horseman is now a part of it — and he agrees, saying part of his mission is to cast more people of color to help them book more roles in the future.) They did cast one Asian actress as Diane, whom Bob-Waksberg doesn't name, and recorded the first four episodes with her. Unfortunately, the actress then suddenly became unavailable due to another show she was signed up for. They scrambled to reach Netflix's deadline and decided to open up auditions to white actresses, as well. Alison Brie nailed it and, well, now we're here. And Bob-Waksberg has nothing but glowing words for Brie, saying, "part of my hesitation in talking about this is I don't want to disparage her in any way because I think she's brought so much of the character to life and she's helped my understanding of the character. And I think in many ways, she's the perfect person for this part. But I think there's one very specific and one very important way in which she's not the perfect person for this part."