least funny python to make shit documentary not worth watching

[lazyhour]

Surprising that so many pretended to be offended by his 'no longer an English city' statement of the bleeding obvious, as metropolitan lefties know this full well, that's why they love it so much. It's a cosmopolitan global hub where - circa 2011 - 37% of inhabitants were born abroad and fewer than 45% were white British. So, there's far fewer of the Bisto-swilling gammon cunts that you get clogging up most English cities, but fuck him for saying it out loud.

Could you please clarify - is this about Britishness (or Englishness if you prefer) or whiteness? Because from your stats it sounds like you're saying that London is 63% an indigenous British city. So... do you think Cleese is right or wrong to say that it's no longer an English city? 63% looks to me like a thumping majority.

[bgmnts]

So English or British = white then basically.

The fact that people still dont understand why this connection is a problem is a bit scary.

People of other races class as English, sorry.

[lazyhour]

Well hang on, let's allow Autopsy to clear this up. What did you actually mean, AT?

[Ferris]

52% of Toronto's population was born outside of Canada - is it a Canadian city by this new definition?

[g0m]

So English or British = white then basically.

The fact that people still dont understand why this connection is a problem is a bit scary.

People of other races class as English, sorry.

these days, they throw you in jail...

[jobotic]

Well hang on, let's allow Autopsy to clear this up. What did you actually mean, AT?

Come on now, that's not how AT operates

[Kankurette]

(((Metropolitan)))

[Pink Gregory]

(((Metropolitan)))

Funny how they dropped the 'north london' part from 'north london metropolitan elite' after Miliband went, isn't it?

[Autopsy Turvey]

Well hang on, let's allow Autopsy to clear this up. What did you actually mean, AT?

Sorry for the delayed response, I was thoughtfully giving you all a break over Christmas. However we need to get over this hang-up about skin colour, it's not terribly helpful or interesting. When Cleese's overseas friends go to London and tell him that it doesn't seem very English anymore, I presume they're talking more about the many visible and audible languages from around the world, the shopfronts, food, clothes, customs, multifarious places of worship etc. Perhaps the fact that London nowadays is like an Epcot Centre for gang violence doesn't help.

The reason I specified '45% white British' is simply that outside of London, the population of England is still more like 80-90% white British, unfortunately. So that could be a relevant factor in Cleese's friends telling him that London doesn't look like an English city, i.e. like Nottingham or Exeter or Lincoln or Chester or York or Portsmouth or Bath, which tend not to be so thrillingly racially diverse. It's a political hot potato no doubt, but as an expression of an observation it's an honest one, and not necessarily a bad or good thing.

[PlanktonSideburns]

Violent crime has been going down in London forever, so I suggest another reason for autopsy and Cleese being all a-turvey:

Increase in the size of their hemmaroids

[lazyhour]

Sorry for the delayed response, I was thoughtfully giving you all a break over Christmas. However we need to get over this hang-up about skin colour, it's not terribly helpful or interesting. When Cleese's overseas friends go to London and tell him that it doesn't seem very English anymore, I presume they're talking more about the many visible and audible languages from around the world, the shopfronts, food, clothes, customs, multifarious places of worship etc. Perhaps the fact that London nowadays is like an Epcot Centre for gang violence doesn't help.

The reason I specified '45% white British' is simply that outside of London, the population of England is still more like 80-90% white British, unfortunately. So that could be a relevant factor in Cleese's friends telling him that London doesn't look like an English city, i.e. like Nottingham or Exeter or Lincoln or Chester or York or Portsmouth or Bath, which tend not to be so thrillingly racially diverse. It's a political hot potato no doubt, but as an expression of an observation it's an honest one, and not necessarily a bad or good thing.

So in other words, you think Cleese is wrong?

[Autopsy Turvey]

So in other words, you think Cleese is wrong?

In what regard? He said London isn't really an English city anymore, obviously it is a city in England so of course he's wrong on that most basic level, I'm just cogitating on what he may have meant beyond the literal. I mean I'm not sure anyone is completely right where topics of this nature are concerned, big subjects with multiple approaches, all sorts of things have to be weighed up, everyone's got a fragment of a good point wrapped in a load of hot guff. I'm a lifelong dyed-in-the-wool Don't Know.

[Kankurette]

London has always had a problem with gang crime. I know, I used to live there.

[Noodle Lizard]

I think there is something to be said for a lot of big metropolitan cities becoming more and more interchangeable, losing a lot of their distinct culture, architecture and atmosphere and just becoming "Modern Cities". I think that's far more a point about globalisation/capitalism rendering everything a bit soulless, though.

[lazyhour]

In what regard? He said London isn't really an English city anymore, obviously it is a city in England so of course he's wrong on that most basic level, I'm just cogitating on what he may have meant beyond the literal. I mean I'm not sure anyone is completely right where topics of this nature are concerned, big subjects with multiple approaches, all sorts of things have to be weighed up, everyone's got a fragment of a good point wrapped in a load of hot guff. I'm a lifelong dyed-in-the-wool Don't Know.

Can I just quote what you said again?

Surprising that so many pretended to be offended by his 'no longer an English city' statement of the bleeding obvious, as metropolitan lefties know this full well, that's why they love it so much. It's a cosmopolitan global hub where - circa 2011 - 37% of inhabitants were born abroad and fewer than 45% were white British. So, there's far fewer of the Bisto-swilling gammon cunts that you get clogging up most English cities, but fuck him for saying it out loud."

Glossing over your jibe about poeople who in your mind "pretended to be offended", you haven't really clarified what you wrote, as far as I can tell.

You very much appear to be saying that the combination of non-native residents plus indigenous non-white faces mean that London is 'no longer an English city'. You'd struggle to find anyone who would interpret your quote differently. This is why I sought clarification.

Do you think that Cleese or anyone else would be right to judge a city's Englishness on its proportion of non-white British-born faces?

[ProvanFan]

Bring back proper London with the scurvy and all that

[tribalfusion]

Perhaps the fact that London nowadays is like an Epcot Centre for gang violence doesn't help.

I'm not sure anything else needs to be said after that 'gem'

[phantom_power]

Can I just quote what you said again?

Glossing over your jibe about poeople who in your mind "pretended to be offended", you haven't really clarified what you wrote, as far as I can tell.

You very much appear to be saying that the combination of non-native residents plus indigenous non-white faces mean that London is 'no longer an English city'. You'd struggle to find anyone who would interpret your quote differently. This is why I sought clarification.

Do you think that Cleese or anyone else would be right to judge a city's Englishness on its proportion of non-white British-born faces?

It is the same old defending some right wing shit someone has said by giving the benefit of the doubt and rowing it back to something so vague and anodyne you can't really argue with it. It never happens for controversial left wing opinions you will notice

[Porky]

https://www.radiotimes.com/tv/documentaries/john-cleese-cancel-culture-channel-4-documentary-newsupdate/

fuck off forever and now

You can't say that.

[Autopsy Turvey]

Do you think that Cleese or anyone else would be right to judge a city's Englishness on its proportion of non-white British-born faces?

I've already said the colour of skin is irrelevant, it's a cultural issue not a racial one. So if London was full of the languages, places of worship, shops, clothing, food, music and customs of non-English white people, as much of it is, it still wouldn't feel like an English city. If Norfolk, York or Lincoln were full of non-white British-born people but culturally unchanged, it would still feel like an English city.

It is the same old defending some right wing shit someone has said by giving the benefit of the doubt and rowing it back to something so vague and anodyne you can't really argue with it.

This is a hysterically sensitive and toxic subject, and much as I admire Cleese for stomping over it with his size twelves, I don't wish to cause any upset or anger (let's see how long this new year's resolution lasts!).

[phantom_power]

I've already said the colour of skin is irrelevant, it's a cultural issue not a racial one. So if London was full of the languages, places of worship, shops, clothing, food, music and customs of non-English white people, as much of it is, it still wouldn't feel like an English city. If Norfolk, York or Lincoln were full of non-white British-born people but culturally unchanged, it would still feel like an English city.

This is a hysterically sensitive and toxic subject, and much as I admire Cleese for stomping over it with his size twelves, I don't wish to cause any upset or anger (let's see how long this new year's resolution lasts!).

Not wanting to ruin your resolution but it would be nice to see you have similar consideration for people with more left wing views, who you tend to label with less generous terms

[The Crumb]

Always lovely how all the American imported cultural artefacts in cities don't raise the same eyebrows. Or does our man spend his time shrieking at the sight of jeans and converse?

[Autopsy Turvey]

The preponderance of jeans is certainly regrettable, but the people who bemoaned them are largely dead now. It was ok maybe when they were just for young fellas trying to look like T-Birds, but when everyone of every age is clamped into the same stiff blue lumberjack trousers it makes you wonder what happened to our sartorial nous.

People have been complaining about the Americanisation of the British high street for decades, again fairly so. I recall Ben Elton's routine about McDonalds staff in Barnsley being forced to say 'have a nice day': "We don't want this hypocritical American culture, we've got our own culture, it worked for years: 'What do you want? There you are, fuck off.' It worked!"

[The Crumb]

And given these clothings, customs food, buildings etc are plentiful in Norwich, York why would they feel culturally like English cities where London doesn't?

[Autopsy Turvey]

And given these clothings, customs food, buildings etc are plentiful in Norwich, York why would they feel culturally like English cities where London doesn't?

Of course language is a big one, plus the large part that British families played in creating and populating the US, so perhaps there is a sense of kinship. Obviously no English city is complete without a range of international food options, but there aren't parts of Norwich given over to American expats bringing with them American shops, American food, American religiosity and American culture in the way that London has divvied up. The integration of American things into British culture has happened democratically and consensually, because the British have taken to them (although we sent Dunkin' Donuts packing more than once).

[gilbertharding]

This cunt's back then?

[jobotic]

Of course language is a big one, plus the large part that British families played in creating and populating the US, so perhaps there is a sense of kinship. Obviously no English city is complete without a range of international food options, but there aren't parts of Norwich given over to American expats bringing with them American shops, American food, American religiosity and American culture in the way that London has divvied up. The integration of American things into British culture has happened democratically and consensually, because the British have taken to them (although we sent Dunkin' Donuts packing more than once).

Yeah, I remember when those Poles attacked a doily shop and chucked out the old lady who ran it set up a Sklep, and the Afghans who ripped down a pub WHILE A SING SONG WAS GOING ON INSIDE to put up a halal meat shop. At least the Americans did it democratically and consensually.

[The Crumb]

there aren't parts of Norwich given over to American expats bringing with them American shops, American food, American religiosity and American culture

Parts of Norwich are given over to these things without even needing the expats.

Aside from a lack of 'certain folk', what identifiable traits give Norwich it's Englishness?

In the way that London has divvied up

Do you have a handy map of these zones? Does the presence of other cultures actively destroy Englishness or is it possible for an area to exhibit multiple cultural identities at once?

If we're talking about parts of the city being handed over, would it not be more worthwhile to look at the dodgy planning deals, the desirable areas being sold off as investments rather than homes, the empty decaying mansions and the encroaching privatisation of public areas?

[somersetchris]

This cunt's back then?

Ignore button, it's marvellous

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

oh dear it seems Arsehole Twatface has started spouting this nonsense in front of an Irish person

you know

someone who'd know the difference between Polish people coming here for work and setting up an ex-pat community (complete with Polish shops and branches of the Polish scouts) and an INVADING ARMY