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Starmer's Labour: Ghouls and Tools on the Ship of Fools

Started by pancreas, September 30, 2021, 08:08:11 PM

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Pink Gregory

Quote from: greenman on January 11, 2022, 08:28:15 AMReally I would argue that a new party would be one of the most effective bits of groundwork to do.

There would already likely be significant grassroots support for it if Corbyn were involved and this would potentially give more of a voice in an environment that its hostile and constantly trying to smear them compared to Labour.

Really he is by far the biggest name who could be involved, I'm not sure any of the Labour names really carry that much weight relative to him.

I agree in terms of a party as an organising group.  Putting a new *parlimentary* party onto the scene now, I'm not sure of the utility of it.

Zetetic

Why would you badge such an organising group as a "party" then?

Buelligan

I think we (obviously) need several things at the same time -
  • an inspiring trustworthy leader (Corbyn could do this perfectly at least to start things)
  • an event or project or subject that is genuinely important to a large number of the electorate - a flag to rally around at least initially
  • A tight reliable group - charismatic, connected to communities, to stand as candidates
  • Funding and support from unions or similar

I honestly think Corbyn would do it.  If he was forced to stand as an independent and therefore forced out of Labour, I think he'd do it.  Not for spite or out of revenge but because he believes in the Cause.  And he knows it's his duty to work towards it, whatever way he's able.  That's why he'd make a fabulous founding leader.

I think we do have rallying points, the debt and housing bind that British politics on both sides of the aisle has forced "hard working" "aspirational" "families" - people who've done everything they can to obey and follow the rules laid down by their betters - is one.  And clearly, there's plenty more to be found in the warmongering, the asset-stripping, the corruption and us-and-them-ing, the TINA shit-sandwich-serving that is part and parcel of the British Establishment. 

I don't know, but I think people like Sharon Graham are a dangerous mix (for those sitting pretty in control currently).  She seems pragmatic and yet she comes across as utterly wedded to the cause.  Those sorts of people, if you can get them on your side, are dynamite.  Hopefully, if she's shown a plan that looks solid, she'll support it.  I genuinely think that's not beyond the realms.

I think the real sticking point is the candidate list.  Until a core of talent, ability, conviction, connection, can be built.  People who will inspire without a well-known brand behind them, until we have that, we have nowt.  And we'll need those people to be reliable, not likely to be corrupted as soon as they're elected.  That's a huge problem.

Blinder Data

Unless I've missed it, I'm surprised no one has talked about the Breakthrough Party: https://breakthroughparty.org.uk/

In an ideal world our political system could support loads of parties but pretty much all new ones (especially those without a multimillionaire backer) are doomed to fail.

At the moment, thanks to being the best-established alternative, it looks like the Greens would benefit the most from Corbyn supporters taking their vote elsewhere.

pancreas



pigamus


king_tubby

Quote from: Blinder Data on January 11, 2022, 11:13:07 AMit looks like the Greens would benefit the most from Corbyn supporters taking their vote elsewhere.

Sian Berry said ex-Labour members are not welcome in the Greens due to their antisemitism.

pigamus

They welcome Lembit Opik-shagging weathergirls though

Zetetic

Quote from: Blinder Data on January 11, 2022, 11:13:07 AMUnless I've missed it, I'm surprised no one has talked about the Breakthrough Party: https://breakthroughparty.org.uk/

Quote from: pancreas on January 11, 2022, 11:16:57 AMI mentioned it twice, I believe.

What is this? It sounds like it's not aiming to stand candidates for Westminster elections. I assume it's not aiming to get councillors elected, because elected local government is almost entirely impotent in England. I also assume it's mostly not aiming to lobby existing Westminster representatives for the same reasons it wouldn't stand in Westminster elections.

Is it direct action campaigning?

Buelligan

Quote from: Blinder Data on January 11, 2022, 11:13:07 AMUnless I've missed it, I'm surprised no one has talked about the Breakthrough Party: https://breakthroughparty.org.uk/

In an ideal world our political system could support loads of parties but pretty much all new ones (especially those without a multimillionaire backer) are doomed to fail.

At the moment, thanks to being the best-established alternative, it looks like the Greens would benefit the most from Corbyn supporters taking their vote elsewhere.

Voting for or supporting other parties, people (obviously) need to ask themselves why they aren't already voting for them.

For most, I'm betting there are two answers - some will believe in what that party stands for but believe that party can't win - in that circumstance, I think they probably should be voting for them.  Some will believe somewhat in what that party stands for and see no better alternative.  In that circumstance, I think they need to to say that.

For too long political parties have called the shots and forced people into settling.  Now, after decades of settling for utter shite, we need to demand parties that work for us, speak about our concerns, fight our corner.  No more settling.

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: Blinder Data on January 11, 2022, 11:13:07 AMUnless I've missed it, I'm surprised no one has talked about the Breakthrough Party: https://breakthroughparty.org.uk/

In an ideal world our political system could support loads of parties but pretty much all new ones (especially those without a multimillionaire backer) are doomed to fail.

At the moment, thanks to being the best-established alternative, it looks like the Greens would benefit the most from Corbyn supporters taking their vote elsewhere.

I mentioned them in November as they DM'd me on twitter after I followed them. I'm not really any the wiser on them now.

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on November 18, 2021, 02:44:21 PMIs anyone aware of the Breakthrough Party btw? They bill themselves as

QuoteNew, youth-led democratic socialist party | Transform work | End the housing crisis | Resist the police state | Fight for climate justice | Orange circleSun with small cloud

Which seemed interesting enough to keep an eye on and followed them just to see what they were about. Not long later I got this direct message:
QuoteHey, I just wanted to message and say thank you for the support and engagement with Breakthrough on Twitter! We really do appreciate it! We would love for you to get involved with
the party! Have you thought much about joining our movement?

I can't say I am because I'm old and was only vaguely curious but thought it was quite proactive.

pancreas

Not a brilliant website, I agree. But from the constitution:

3.2. Except with the prior consent of the National Committee, members may not simultaneously be members of another political party, whether or not it runs candidates against Breakthrough. The National Committee may issue general waivers in respect of membership of a specific political party.

Suggesting it will run candidates. My belief is that it will, if it hasn't done already.

Zetetic

Okay - but that makes "We see hope not in Westminster but in the ordinary people fighting for a better future — in workplaces, in communities and on the streets" a little bit confusing.


king_tubby

Quote from: pancreas on January 11, 2022, 02:16:17 PM3.2. Except with the prior consent of the National Committee, members may not simultaneously be members of another political party, whether or not it runs candidates against Breakthrough. The National Committee may issue general waivers in respect of membership of a specific political party.

Interesting, given they're pretty pally with the NIP. I may be wrong but I think the midlands version of the NIP (Mercian something or other?) dissolved themselves and joined with Breakthrough at the end of last year.

Buelligan

Quote from: Zetetic on January 11, 2022, 02:22:10 PMOkay - but that makes "We see hope not in Westminster but in the ordinary people fighting for a better future — in workplaces, in communities and on the streets" a little bit confusing.



Yeah, maybe.  Maybe they mean "We see hope not in Westminster as it is now...".  Maybe they mean "We see hope not in Westminster alone...".  Maybe, "We see hope not in Westminster but regional assemblies...".  Or something completely, else.  Who knows, maybe someone should ask them.


pigamus

Sadly I think today has been a very good day for Kieth.

Video Game Fan 2000

Quote from: pigamus on January 12, 2022, 07:14:06 PMSadly I think today has been a very good day for Kieth.

Boris might resign and ruin that.

pigamus


Video Game Fan 2000

Pardon me, I meant The Swineminister might resign and ruin that.

the Fallen

Sir Keir Rodney Starmer KCB QC

I call him K-Rod

as he'd likely hate it

And yeah, don't use Johnson's stage name

Buelligan

Quote from: the Fallen on January 12, 2022, 07:55:17 PMSir Keir Rodney Starmer KCB QC

I call him K-Rod

I call him Special K-Rap.


king_tubby

It will be interesting to see what happens in this case given Normal's partner is Ken's Director of Comms.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-59957335

QuoteLambeth Labour councillor Philip Normal sorry for offensive tweets

Sebastian Cobb

Quote from: king_tubby on January 12, 2022, 09:26:45 PMIt will be interesting to see what happens in this case given Normal's partner is Ken's Director of Comms.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-59957335


Have you seen the full catalogue?

https://twitter.com/TobiasTaylor/status/1481221639295676419

Philip Normal does sound like the perfect focus-grouped character Kieth has willed into existence.

the Fallen

Posted a load of horrible shit on Twitter when he had nothing to lose and is back pedalling now he's been found out, claiming to be changed?

Mr Normal indeed (I have a very low opinion of society)

king_tubby

Quote from: Sebastian Cobb on January 13, 2022, 12:01:42 AMHave you seen the full catalogue?

https://twitter.com/TobiasTaylor/status/1481221639295676419

Philip Normal does sound like the perfect focus-grouped character Kieth has willed into existence.

Yes, he's pretty much covered all areas hasn't he? There was a tweet going around last night from someone knocked back during the Lambeth councillor selection process as the party had found old tweets by them critical of library closures and social cleansing. So if Normal isn't binned off it's really giving an indication of where the party is.

Sebastian Cobb

Yeah they certainly seem to be selective with who they decide to screen.

If they're soft on Philip it would appear to be a fairly obvious case of nepotism given his partner is Starmer's head of comms.

king_tubby


idunnosomename

Philip Normal was like a shitpost account how comprehensively it covered the bases. Then this from last year to top it off lmao