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March 29, 2024, 11:43:01 AM

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Remake/Remodel.

Started by Glebe, October 26, 2021, 08:49:04 PM

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falafel

I played SH2 on a CRT on PS2 on release and enjoyed the atmosphere for a couple of hours, and then very quickly fell out of love with the game itself. To this day, I struggle to understand the love for it. Beyond the fog and the creative monster design, it struck me as a pretty campy, sophomoric psychological horror. That could in itself be a good thing but I was totally uninspired by it. For some reason I also tried 3 and didn't get on with it.

If you need evidence that my opinion can be discarded, the only SH game I really enjoyed and actually completed was the Wii one (Shattered Memories) which I think is generally regarded as pretty mediocre.

Pink Gregory

What's enjoyable about it is the experimentation in a space that hadn't really come to be defined commerically - the 'horror' game.  It was a departure from your Resident Evils and while some more obscure stuff was about that what explicitly horror rather than e.g. Alone in the Dark style adventure game, Silent Hill was largely a genuinely new approach. 

Though I played SH2 (and SH1 later than that) far later than release, it still felt that way, but I'm not a massive horror game fan.

Whether it worked 3-4 times before the crap ones started coming out is another question.

Quote from: falafel on December 16, 2021, 07:12:21 AMI played SH2 on a CRT on PS2 on release and enjoyed the atmosphere for a couple of hours, and then very quickly fell out of love with the game itself. To this day, I struggle to understand the love for it. Beyond the fog and the creative monster design, it struck me as a pretty campy, sophomoric psychological horror. That could in itself be a good thing but I was totally uninspired by it. For some reason I also tried 3 and didn't get on with it.

If you need evidence that my opinion can be discarded, the only SH game I really enjoyed and actually completed was the Wii one (Shattered Memories) which I think is generally regarded as pretty mediocre.

Hmm, calling SH2 sophomoric and then going on to praise Shattered Memories, which completely lifted SH2's concept of externalising trauma as physical horrors in the most ham-handedly on-the-nose way imaginable. WHAT WERE YOU THINKING, SIR??

But seriously, I would say a lot of the really interesting stuff in SH2 happens in the back-half of the game, e.g. from  the Historical Society onwards, so if you've only played a couple of hours (that's up to the end of the apartment complex I guess?) you've not really got the full picture. It's probably worth a revisit and it's not like it's particularly long, you can breeze through it in around five hours.

FWIW I came to SH2 off the back of playing the PS1 original, and initially I was a little disappointed that it completely eschewed the fucked up Hellraiser aesthetics of the first game, but the more I played it I came to appreciate what it was doing - an introspective take on horror as opposed to a grimdark shockfest.  And since then it feels like every subsequent game, bar 4, has been SH1 fan fiction in any case. So the approach SH2 took was the wisest one ultimately, and part of the reason it's endured in popularity more than many other games of the era.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Yeah, I'm not sure how far you can get in a couple of hours, but most of the really interesting stuff is definitely later than that. Have Pyramid Head or Maria even turned up at that point?

As a big fan of the original, I was initially disappointed that Silent Hill 2 wasn't a direct sequel, in both plot and aesthetics. I soon came to see that as the game's masterstroke though and, ironically, was then disappointed when SH3 went back to the well of the first game. Even ironicallier, I have since come to appreciate 3 for not simply copying the formula of 2.

falafel

I think I'll give it another go over Christmas.

I should get the remaster yeah?

Glebe

Completed Resi Evil 0 on Wesker Mode. I'd like to give Code Veronica X a bash, only ever played a borrowed copy of the PS2 version years ago . As I said before, Microsoft Store (I'm an Xbox One user) have it for €20 which is extortionate for a decade old game. Could maybe pick up a physical Xbox 360 copy on eBay or summit. Pity it hasn't been giving the makeover treatment.

Magnum Valentino

It has a BIT. The version you could download on PS3 (and might've been packaged on disc with another remaster) was cleaned up for PS3 somewhat, HD graphics, widescreen, all that malarkey. The PS4 download was a 'PS2 Classic' which was in 4:3 and had none of the bonus or cleanup of the PS3 version. But no, it hasn't been remade like 1-3 and isn't anywhere as pretty as the 2 GameCube games.

I'm split on Code Veronica. I like the first half and hate the second but it's a weirdly unscary RE game and the characterisation in it is bizarre altogether. Also the last boss is quite hard and I think there's a number of sections where you can get stuck if you haven't brought enough ammo with you which is bad design which doesn't plague the earlier entries where the pre-boss ammo dumps were suitably generous.

Who else has thoughts on Code Veronica?

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth


bgmnts

It's probably one of the better stories in Resi Evil. It actually feels like something is going forward and happening, after the two games in the same timeframe.

It's a decent game overall but is absolutely ruined by a genuinely insane game design choice involving one item that can make oe break your save.

Very very frustrating game I'd say.

Glebe

Quote from: Magnum Valentino on January 18, 2022, 12:09:29 PMIt has a BIT. The version you could download on PS3 (and might've been packaged on disc with another remaster) was cleaned up for PS3 somewhat, HD graphics, widescreen, all that malarkey. The PS4 download was a 'PS2 Classic' which was in 4:3 and had none of the bonus or cleanup of the PS3 version. But no, it hasn't been remade like 1-3 and isn't anywhere as pretty as the 2 GameCube games.

Yeah the 2011 Xbox 360 release was obviously given some kind of spruce up but again it's a pity it's been passed over for a fresh redo while many other Resi games have gotten a do-over in more recent years.

Magnum Valentino

I wonder if it'll be fully remade like with 2 and 3 (and apparently 4).

It doesn't seem to have the same iconic factor. 2 and 3 are remembered and loved by gamers but Code Veronica is remembered and loved by Resident Evil fans.

Glebe

Whadda ya know, stuck on me Xbox this morning and discovered that Microsoft Store have knocked Code Veronica X down to €4, so I got it... graphics aren't as bad as I thought they'd look, getting used to the old movement controls is a bit of a pain though. Mustn't grumble, enjoying it otherwise!

Quote from: Magnum Valentino on January 20, 2022, 09:21:06 AMI wonder if it'll be fully remade like with 2 and 3 (and apparently 4).

It doesn't seem to have the same iconic factor. 2 and 3 are remembered and loved by gamers but Code Veronica is remembered and loved by Resident Evil fans.

I've not picked up the 2 and 3 remakes as yet... wasn't Veronica originally supposed to be the official third game? I've just recently finished Arkham Origins on Xbox (I'd completed it on PC before) that's another game that was overlooked for the redo treatment while Arkham Asylum and Arkham City got refreshed.

Magnum Valentino

Yeah Veronica was being developed as the third game, but I can't remember why Nemesis was rushed out using a lot of parts from 2.

Weirdly Veronica has the same zombie vocals tracks as 2, which 3 didn't. Also in 3 you could freely walk up and down steps, instead of having to 'interact' with them, but Veronica went back to having to press action to walk up them again.

Arkham Origins is class and deserves to be considered part of the official history of that series. I far prefer it to the bloated gloss of Arkham Knight.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

As I understand it, Sony threw a tantrum about a main series Resi game not appearing on the Playstation, so Nemesis and Code Veronica were renamed as a quick way to placate them.

bgmnts

Quote from: Glebe on January 20, 2022, 03:20:47 PMWhadda ya know, stuck on me Xbox this morning and discovered that Microsoft Store have knocked Code Veronica X down to €4, so I got it... graphics aren't as bad as I thought they'd look, getting used to the old movement controls is a bit of a pain though. Mustn't grumble, enjoying it otherwise!

Be very fucking careful playing this.

It will fuck you to the point of being actually stuck and locked out of progression at points in the game if you dont do certain things.

Magnum Valentino

Here is some advice on how not to break Code Veronica I stole from Reddit.

"There are four things that are vital for a non-shit Code Veronica playthrough, these are:

1: Make sure you don't forget to transfer the empty extinguisher from the security box to a item box.

2: Finish Rodrigo's sidequest, giving him the hemostat and later saving him from the gulp worm.

3: Don't bring your entire arsenal as Claire to fight the Nosferatu.

4: Make sure to drop Chris's Glock and use Claire's Custom M93R for the entirety of the game or until you ran out of handgun ammo.

That's basically it."

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth


Played Code Veronica a fair bit on the Dreamcast, it was okay but I always seemed to hit a brick wall in terms of running out of ammo and having to start over. It felt like the zombos took more than the usual amount of hits to take down which leads to your stocks running down that much more quickly, and of course the combat knife is completely inadequate.

I feel like maybe in the previous ones, once you got the shotgun you were pretty much set for the rest of the game but that wasn't the case in CV. I don't think it even had an auto-aim, did it?

Glebe

Quote from: bgmnts on January 20, 2022, 04:49:20 PMBe very fucking careful playing this.

It will fuck you to the point of being actually stuck and locked out of progression at points in the game if you dont do certain things.

Quote from: Magnum Valentino on January 20, 2022, 05:21:43 PMHere is some advice on how not to break Code Veronica I stole from Reddit.

"There are four things that are vital for a non-shit Code Veronica playthrough, these are:

1: Make sure you don't forget to transfer the empty extinguisher from the security box to a item box.

2: Finish Rodrigo's sidequest, giving him the hemostat and later saving him from the gulp worm.

3: Don't bring your entire arsenal as Claire to fight the Nosferatu.

4: Make sure to drop Chris's Glock and use Claire's Custom M93R for the entirety of the game or until you ran out of handgun ammo.

That's basically it."

Thanks for the tips!

Quote from: Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth on January 20, 2022, 07:39:59 PM5: Kill Steve.

Haha, yeah he's a bit of an annoying emo Kevin the Teenager, isn't he?

Quote from: Ron Maels Moustache on January 20, 2022, 11:06:45 PMPlayed Code Veronica a fair bit on the Dreamcast, it was okay but I always seemed to hit a brick wall in terms of running out of ammo and having to start over. It felt like the zombos took more than the usual amount of hits to take down which leads to your stocks running down that much more quickly, and of course the combat knife is completely inadequate.

I feel like maybe in the previous ones, once you got the shotgun you were pretty much set for the rest of the game but that wasn't the case in CV. I don't think it even had an auto-aim, did it?

The knife is a bit more powerful than in other Resi games, at least the ones I'm familiar with. Those 'tank' controls are really frustrating to get used to again though.

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Quote from: Glebe on January 24, 2022, 02:20:21 PMHaha, yeah he's a bit of an annoying emo Kevin the Teenager, isn't he?
No. He's THE annoying emo Kevin the Teenager. He makes Raiden in Metal Gear Solid 2 look like Brian Blessed.

Maybe I'm viewing it through plop-tinted glasses, but I remember Code Veronica's environments having a blandly spartan look, which really sapped the atmosphere. Obviously, the 3D graphics of the time weren't going match the classic games' pre-rendered backgrounds for detail, but Silent Hill 2 was also 3D and it was a lot more atmospheric (and also made better use of the moving camera). Was it due Capcom being unfamiliar with the technology (Resi 4 was the same generation and that still looks pretty darn good), The Dreamcast being crap, or have I just remembered it wrongly?

Glebe

I'm playing the Xbox 360 version, widescreen HD but otherwise doesn't look so different than the PS2 version as far as I can remember it.

bgmnts

What I will say is it at least has some sort of interesting plot that drives the franchise forward.


madhair60


Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Quote from: bgmnts on January 24, 2022, 02:40:18 PMWhat I will say is it at least has some sort of interesting plot that drives the franchise forward.
Drives it into pure schlock, more like.

bgmnts

Resident Evil was pure schlock before you even played the first one.

https://youtu.be/UWo0Hhx07Pc

Claude the Racecar Driving Rockstar Super Sleuth

Anime style early '00s super schlock.

Quote from: Glebe on January 24, 2022, 02:20:21 PMThe knife is a bit more powerful than in other Resi games, at least the ones I'm familiar with. Those 'tank' controls are really frustrating to get used to again though.

It might do more damage, but getting close enough to actually use it puts you in range of lunging zombos, making it not worth the trouble of even equipping. I think playing stuff like Dark Souls has really made older games that had melee attacks but no blocking mechanic feel particularly dated.

I've been playing a bit of RE:CV over the weekend (PS2 version) and it reminded me how has to be the most rage-inducing game in the entire series. The combination of increased difficulty, clunky controls, lack of health and save points plus the wretched unfairness of the monster to ammo ratio just makes it an exercise in frustration.

Spoiler alert
Introducing Bandersnatches really early on when you're still underequipped and mostly likely low on health items is a proper cunt's trick, they should be a sparingly-deployed late game monster if used at all.
[close]

Glebe

Yeah, it's a frustratingly tough game. Tried saving ammo by using the knife and just got bitten by lotsa zombos.

RetroRobot

Ideally I'd like remakes that fix stuff in good games that could've been great, like Donkey Kong 64. Swap Kongs on the fly, reign in some of the collectibles or their requirements, make it look nice and shiny. Would be ace.

Speaking of 3D Rareware platformers, double pack remake of Banjo Kazooie and Banjo Tooie. Could call it Banjo Redooie. Surely the name justifies it Microsoft?

Glebe

Code Veronica continues to frustrate. That 3D printer is quite prescient actually innit?