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YouTuber Shaun debunks Jimmy Dore's anti-vaccination videos

Started by Petey Pate, November 08, 2021, 05:13:51 PM

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Petey Pate

Not sure if this should really be in Comedy Chat but it does concern a professional comedian so...

I used to like Jimmy Dore when he (and his guests) would lambast Obama and the Democratic party with the kind of derision and scorn that liberal/left wing (by US standards) comedians usually only reserved for Republicans. However, over the course of the 2016 election, the quality of his podcast (and adjacent YouTube videos) tanked, with many formally frequent contributors leaving and the show becoming more or less a joke-free advocacy for Jill Stein's presidential campaign. Since then Dore has only descended further into peddling conspiracy theories and anti-vaccine nonsense, even if doing so has made him wealthier.

So it's now quite satisfying to see Shaun pick apart Dore's silly views with his calm, rational, Scouse demeanor in his recent video essay. Sam Seder of the Majority Report also frequently attacks Dore, but less rigorously than Shaun does here. 

https://youtu.be/5wRDLf54Scs

bgmnts

I honestly thought Shaun was scouse. All you English sound the same.

Thursday

Yeah this was a good video, and thought Dore made for a more interesting target Shaun. Sad to see Dore's descent into becoming a person he would target though.

Catalogue Trousers

Quote from: bgmnts on November 08, 2021, 05:20:15 PM
I honestly thought Shaun was scouse. All you English sound the same.

Yeah, he's Liverpudlian. Don't know where that Yorkshire comment came from. Great video regardless.

Petey Pate

Quote from: bgmnts on November 08, 2021, 05:20:15 PM
I honestly thought Shaun was scouse. All you English sound the same.

You're right, my bad. Not sure how I made that mistake...

Fifty minutes of a twitter feud. I thought Shaun was getting on track again with the PragerU stuff, but no back to Twitter and Youtube.

These leftie youtube vids are getting worse and worse. I saw that Folding Ideas one about Jamie Oliver, how can you go wrong with that easiest target in the world, but no he thought Jamie Oliver was talking about American school meals and did a discourse analysis to say it was "classist" to hate chicken nuggets on the basis of them containing as much connective tissue as flesh. Damn, sorry for punching down on Bernard Matthews.

Why the fuck is it always American shit. Cultural imperialism isn't real, so it can't be that.

Lungpuddle

That CinemaSins feud he started seemed quite stupid, too. Does he really not get that it's a joke? Seems a nice guy, but I don't find anything he posts about too... effective? I was a subscriber for a while but never felt like I learned anything from watching any of it. Then I came across the CinemaSins video(s!) and thought, oh I've wasted so much of my time.

I don't know why American culture war stuff even needs to be debunked for a UK audience, it seems like a waste of time. It's just sandbagging.

I thought Shaun was good back in the day when I thought it was a gimmick to be ludicruously thorough debunking some of the most truly stupid people on Youtube, but then he started doing it for twitter stuff. I don't get it.

Then he goes and does a video on privatisation and its only 15 minutes long. Guess that's not an important enough subject to deserve the wikipedia treatment, better wait for RationalCommiePuncher911 to call a Marvel movie bad to warrant a full 90 minute unpacking.

evilcommiedictator

Anyone on YouTube debunking something, especially another YouTube video, needs to be given concrete shoes and thrown into the Marianas Trench

peanutbutter

Quote from: Video Game Fan 2000 on November 08, 2021, 06:07:37 PM
I thought Shaun was good back in the day when I thought it was a gimmick to be ludicruously thorough debunking some of the most truly stupid people on Youtube, but then he started doing it for twitter stuff. I don't get it.
He's way more a twitter personality than a youtube personality at this stage, has vibes of being constantly online and very engaged with all the various bullshit on twitter.

Not really sure what he should be doing now, the kind of right wing shit that was all over the algorithms a few years ago is nowhere near as much of a thing anymore and his in depth videos on things like the Bell Curve were boring as fuck.
Jimmy Dore is probably a decent choice of focus though, he does seem to make some people a bit deranged on both twitter and youtube and there seems to be very very little of an upside to him. It's good to have a decently researched Shaun video digging into his shite on one topic.

idunnosomename

the huge bell curve video was bizarre. i dont need to watch a video for five hours or whatever to know racism is bad. and racists won't watch it either. although better than hbomberguy going on about some weeaboo cartoon called Ruby for eight hours though

his atomic bombing of Japan videos were good, although you can level many arguments at it, it's still a good analysis and perspective on what should be seen as a war crime rather than a necessary evil.

he has a lovely speaking voice and he's very droll.

Quote from: idunnosomename on November 08, 2021, 10:52:48 PM
the huge bell curve video was bizarre.

I think its an artifact of the bizarre situation we're in, where everyones brains are melted by American liberal media and democrat party politics and its simultaneously true that there is a surge in active white supremacy, and also an online moral panic where leftists and liberals are constantly accusing each other of being secretly fash, or trying to find the secret fash dogwhistles in each others discourse (Jimmy Dore seems like a magnet for this, he might invite it for all I know). There was like five minutes where anything with numbers in it was "phrenology" and therefore fash.

Its undeniably good that its the first youtube result for "the bell curve" though.

Goldentony

shame about Dore going this way, literally none of the signs were there

Quotehe (and his guests) would lambast Obama and the Democratic party with the kind of derision and scorn that liberal/left wing (by US standards) comedians usually only reserved for Republicans.


chveik

easy now you're going to end up in a youtube debunking video

they should debate me on twitch

i've got loads of videogame analogies i'm dying to use and the worst sid james impression in human history, it sounds like donald duck eating mccoys

Petey Pate

Quote from: Goldentony on November 08, 2021, 11:27:10 PM
shame about Dore going this way, literally none of the signs were there

The show felt genuinely refreshing during the Obama years due to its lack of partisanship, it was often vibrant and angry comedy directed at both Republicans and Democrats. Over the course of 2016 it became more one-sided and less comedic, particularly after the Bernie Sanders campaign failed. I can understand why Dore wanted to distinguish himself from mainstream anti-Trump comedy, but at the same time it made little sense to still be raging about Hillary Clinton months into Trump's term as president.

Catalogue Trousers

I'm just going to say that I like Shaun a lot, from his deadpan Scouse voice to his refreshing lack of wacky humour or gimmicky presentation. I far prefer him to the likes of Hbomberguy, Contrapoints, and the rest of that crowd: he has important stuff to say, which sometimes can be boring, unfortunately. Hbomberguy's recent vaccines video was undeniably important and in-depth, but still stuffed full of rubbish comedy and self-congratulatory cameo role for Lindsey Ellis (okay, and Shaun, to be fair). Contrapoints seems to be more and more about the aesthetic of narcissism. They're lovely people, I'm sure, but I prefer Shaun's no-frills, no-nonsense approach.

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

oh good it's time for another round of perfomatively hating vloggers to be trendy

let me know when people start insisting that "lefttube" is ruining academic purity or whatever

Catalogue Trousers

No problems with 'lefttube'. Quite the reverse, I'm glad it exists. Sooner that than endless Shapiro and Crowder bullshit.


Sonny_Jim

Quote from: Video Game Fan 2000 on November 08, 2021, 05:46:01 PM
I saw that Folding Ideas one about Jamie Oliver, how can you go wrong with that easiest target in the world
Yeah that was a slightly disappointing video, but I'm just putting it down to FI being 'youtube savvy'.  A 20 minute video about Chicken Nuggets and 'what you thought about Jamie Oliver is wrong' is probably going to get more views than something more cerebral.

Quote
These leftie youtube vids are getting worse and worse
I miss the days of people pouring milk over themselves whilst taking the piss out of buff far right extremists.

SURPRISE FLEX!

earl_sleek

Quote from: Video Game Fan 2000 on November 08, 2021, 05:46:01 PM
he thought Jamie Oliver was talking about American school meals

He was, at least in part - the children in at least one of the Oliver clips are clearly American. Did you actually watch it?

bgmnts

Quote from: Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse on November 09, 2021, 02:08:25 AM
oh good it's time for another round of perfomatively hating vloggers to be trendy

let me know when people start insisting that "lefttube" is ruining academic purity or whatever

Is youtuve stuff academia?

Retinend


Mr Trumpet

I like Shaun when he winds up the yanks on Twitter by making a nonspecific comment about UK politics and watching them go berserk because they think he's talking about America. "Republicanism is the only sensible political stance" etc

Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse

"god I hate these 90 minute self-indulgent YouTube essays about nothing"

someone makes 20 minute minimalist video about British classism as expressed through pouring scorn on food eaten by poor people

"he only made that to game the algorithm"

TrenterPercenter

Listened to this the other day; it's good, though a little boring and late as Dore has been grifting and going mad (in a very Gallowesque manner it must be said) for sometime.

November 09, 2021, 11:32:41 AM #29 Last Edit: November 09, 2021, 11:47:28 AM by Video Game Fan 2000
Quote from: earl_sleek on November 09, 2021, 08:20:08 AM
He was, at least in part - the children in at least one of the Oliver clips are clearly American. Did you actually watch it?

I did. He specifically referenced "American schools", it doesn't matter if the kids in one of the clips were American because the infamous pink slime footage is about UK school meals.

And anyway, its a great video to show why this sort of video is flawed way to communicate about that kind of issue - discourse analysis and media studies 101, unpacking the problematic tropes and all that bollocks - because he keeps on about "Jamies Obsession" and how its Jamie Oliver being obsessed with chicken nuggets that fascinates him. If he's so fucking fascinated by it, he'd know that although Jamie Oliver's approach was bad, its not "Jamie's Obsession" - like, it was a decades long scandal about dangerously low quality food standards and deregulated meat products in the UK, culminating with Horse Raviola. The guy said Jamie didn't talk about the industry and ethics, but the company famously singled out was notorious and suffered a hit from the program, it had to take a top selling product off the shelves. It has zero to do with "classism" about clean v dirty food. Jamie Oliver was arguably exploiting a scandal, but the scandal was real - he wasn't just deciding to make programs about kids eating junk because they're lazy. He'd already campaigned to ban sugary foods from canteens and advocated for teaching kids how to prepare food in schools. The whole framing is so keen to get to the discourse and tropes, it leaps over the facts and context to get there.

Once again, its Twitter bullshit: "hating junkfood is classist" is a perennial, you can't go wrong with it, facts be damned. The only good point in the video is the shit about how being time poor effects diet which is 100% on the money and a big reason Oliver ended up looking like an unserious chancer. Its inarguably correct, but zero to do with the wider point about the tropes. Totally disconnected from it: it would still be true even if Jamie Oliver said Bernard Mathews turkey tasted better than home prepared so he understood why the kids liked it.