Who was the best member of New Order?

[The Culture Bunker]

Fun fact: an instrumental cover of 'Age of Consent' appears in Wayne's World 2. I have wondered how much the band made from the publishing for that.

[jamiefairlie]

Fun fact: an instrumental cover of 'Age of Consent' appears in Wayne's World 2. I have wondered how much the band made from the publishing for that.

Yeah but The Hacienda ate it all.

[jamiefairlie]

Listening now...

Age of Consent sounds like a totally different band to the New Order I'm familiar with.

One of the YouTube comments says: "I'm so incredibly jealous of anyone who gets to hear this song for the first time. Because my first time with this song absolutely changed my life. You lucky people, you. Goodness."

I feel privileged.  And it's a great song.  Thanks!

You can still hear the JD lineage, not too far from LWTUA.

[Rolf Lundgren]

Hooky's books are a fan's dream because of the song-by-song review of each album. That kind of granular detail is manna from heaven for obsessives.

Fun fact: an instrumental cover of 'Age of Consent' appears in Wayne's World 2. I have wondered how much the band made from the publishing for that.

iMDB says it's a cover version because they couldn't afford to pay the royalties but my own memory says it's a song made to sound exactly like Age of Consent.

[The Culture Bunker]

iMDB says it's a cover version because they couldn't afford to pay the royalties but my own memory says it's a song made to sound exactly like Age of Consent.

I'm fairly certain in the end credits, it names the band (Gilbert/Hook/Morris/Sumner) as the writers. It's presumably a bit cheaper to use a cover version as you're only paying the publishing royalties then - I would imagine using the original costs a fair bit extra.

[Rolf Lundgren]

I'm fairly certain in the end credits, it names the band (Gilbert/Hook/Morris/Sumner) as the writers. It's presumably a bit cheaper to use a cover version as you're only paying the publishing royalties then - I would imagine using the original costs a fair bit extra.

You're quite right, they got diddled on that then.

[jamiefairlie]

You're quite right, they got diddled on that then.

Yeah but The Hacienda ate it all, so it didn't matter anyway.

[Famous Mortimer]

You're quite right, they got diddled on that then.

This tends to happen quite a lot. I have a memory of reading an article about how music rights and films work out, like they'll use soundalikes or the band re-recording the song in almost exactly the same way, to avoid paying X rather than Y royalties.

[wrec]

Joy Division are absolutely foundational for me and it's always amazed me how they made that music almost in spite of themselves and purely instinctually. While the totality of it has that bit of enigma to it you can easily see what each individual member is contributing, Hannett included. When it comes to New Order the lines get increasingly blurred but I don't think any member is dispensable (I start losing interest at Republic though).

Hook's and Sumner's books make their inevitable personality clash really clear, and you can see instances where there's validity to both their perspectives, but there's a lack of communication or a mediator like Gretton to hold things together. Then the Other Two are the lukewarm water between extrovert early riser Hooky and insular, passive-aggressive night owl Barney, and from Morris' book he and Gillian come across as more grounded and sympathetic. Hook and Sumner are both awkward bollixes in their own way and it's sad they can't work together, especially as Hooky I'm particular seems obsessed with Barney. Then again everyone's current situation seems in keeping with their personalities.

Incidentally just read James Nice's history of Factory and it's striking how Wilson seemed like an egomaniacal visionary at first, thereafter consistently making the worst possible decisions that made everyone worse off. Has anyone read the new Paul Morley book on him? I usually find Morley painful but he was the most unexpectedly insightful contributor to Jon Savage's oral history of JD.

I enjoy singing World in Motion in an Ian Curtis voice.

[bgmnts]

Whoever pressed the buttons on the drum machine.

[turnstyle]

Almost finished Substance.

After hearing how much of a bonk on Hook has for Robbie Williams, I have chosen to disregard his opinion on anything.

[Johnboy]

Stephen Morris always comes across well in interviews – self deprecating and sharp

It's a pity things have gotten so toxic between Hooky and the others, don't they know life's too short

I can sympathise with Hooky, it must have been hard to get left out of the creative process.

Is it an oversimplification to say that when Hooky was more creatively involved the albums were better (Lowlife, Get Ready) and when he wasn't they were worse (Republic, Waiting for the Sirens Call)?

[sevendaughters]

I bet they're all alright, really. Just don't like each other very much (S+G notwithstanding) and had to go to dark professional places (Hooky) to keep food on the table. I think I'd probably get on best with Stephen but I like Bernard, he is impish (like the Q interview where he claimed not to know what masturbating was).

[buzby]

I can sympathise with Hooky, it must have been hard to get left out of the creative process.

Is it an oversimplification to say that when Hooky was more creatively involved the albums were better (Lowlife, Get Ready) and when he wasn't they were worse (Republic, Waiting for the Sirens Call)?

Get Ready has some real duffers on there (Rock The Shack, Slow Jam). Republic has probably the most 'Hooky' track of all (Regret - it's based around his bass melody).

The group evolved, they changed the way they wrote songs and it involved less jamming (part of this was because they increasingly couldn't stand the sight of each other from Technique onwards). The Other Three changed their working methods to suit but Hook could't cope with that change and instead moaned and sulked instead of trying to write anything himself (subsequent events have shown that he's pretty much incapable of this without a writing partner like Dave Potts who can do the heavy lifting for him).

One of the things that pissed Sumner off so much over the Republic sessions was the intense pressure to write the songs and get the album done was falling mainly on him when he didn't even want to be involved. The Morrises helped a bit (Avalanche is one of their soundtrack ideas, it even has Gillian's voice on it), Hook just moaned that Stephen Hague and the others were cutting him out.

[turnstyle]

Ok, I've finished Unknown Pleasures and Substance now. Do I go for the triple and tackle How Not to Run a Club next? As fascinating as the books were I'm not sure I need more stories of Hook losing money, shagging groupies, hating Bernard and doing 'japes'.

[Johnboy]

I found How to Run a Club hard going and I gave up with it, too much moaning. I loved Substance though.

[SweetPomPom]

James Nice's Rise and Fall of Factory Records is well worth tracking down though you will end up knowing more about Crispy Ambulance than you need.
The Jon Savage oral history is good too.

[The Culture Bunker]

James Nice's Rise and Fall of Factory Records is well worth tracking down though you will end up knowing more about Crispy Ambulance than you need.

The DVD by the same chap, 'Shadowplayers', is also good value. Was made quite a while (about 2007/8, I think) ago too, so Tony Wilson, Annik Honore and Larry Cassidy (and Vini Reilly before he had his strokes) are on there.

[Custard]

Oops, wrong thread xxx

[markburgle]

Oops, wrong thread xxx

Is there a right thread in which to post "Oops, wrong thread"?

[mothman]

I don't stray into Oscillations much, but this is a really interesting thread and I'll definitely check out Morris's book(s?). I've read Sumner's, and I think two of Hook's.

[thelittlemango]

Recently I've been reading Peter Hook's Joy Division and New Order books. If you haven't had the pleasure yourself, I recommend them - lots of talk about 'the process', juxtaposed with tales of drugs, sex and debauchery and a surprising number of anecdotes about doing big poos.

Do you have more info about the big poos? I always thought Hooky was the member I'd least like to go into a toilet after they've used it.

[Sebastian Cobb]

The way this goes is you see Gillian and Stephen talking about New Order and think 'they seem nice' and then if you dig deeper you realise that's all it is to it really, everything affirms that and everyone else looks bad.

[turnstyle]

Do you have more info about the big poos? I always thought Hooky was the member I'd least like to go into a toilet after they've used it.

There's a bit where Hooky and a roadie spend a couple of days using Barney's hotel bathroom in lieu of their own, building up a large reserve of big sloppy tods, a result of consuming foreign foods that the Mancunians' digestive systems are not accustomed to. End result is Barney returning to his room after a few days away with a young romantic interest, only to be appalled and the odour of the poo mountain, and yelling at Hooky that he's a dirty bastard.

In Hooky's telling of the story, this is a Grade A, Kasparov-style move that is the ultimate in japery.

[turnstyle]

There's also a bit in his first book where he describes himself and Curtis taking in the majesty of the 'most unbelievable turd I've ever seen', left by a previous patron, and using it as a way to describe the Joy Division front man as one of the lads. 

When Terry discovered this unusual-looking turd that somebody had left in the toilets at the Leigh Open Air Festival, and made us look at it because it was so massive - like a pile of Swiss rolls, the most unbelievable turd I've ever seen in my life - Ian didn't go scurrying his head in a Dostoyevesky, much as he'd like Annik or Debbie to think that's how he would have reacted. No, he was laughing just as hard as was just as grossed-out as all of us. Just like one of the lads.

[jobotic]

Pushkin? More like Poo-shkin

Eh lads?