Keith Allen

[Elderly Sumo Prophecy]

I think Charmless Man is actually about Brett Anderson from Suede. Even the "la la La's" in the chorus are mocking Suede's tendency to do the same.

[lipsink]

I always heard it was about Morrisey.

[Brundle-Fly]

I've generally really enjoyed his documentaries especially the 2009 Keith Floyd one.

It's not on YouTube but I wonder in the current climate how his 2004 Lauren Harries doc would stand up today.

[Mister Six]

I remember in the early 90s I would see him in stuff like 'World In Motion', Glastonbury coverage and Shallow Grave but could never work out what the fuck he was supposed to be famous for, originally. He's sort of an actor but he's not really in much? He's not really even in that many Comic Strip Presents... episodes.

Yeah, I was wondering that. He sort of seemed to have floated up among a lot of 80s comedians without really being one himself. Was he the guy with the coke contacts or something?

[Ron Maels Moustache]

I think Charmless Man is actually about Brett Anderson from Suede. Even the "la la La's" in the chorus are mocking Suede's tendency to do the same.

It totally isn't. Nothing in the song lyric describes Anderson, and loads of Blur songs feature "la la las". Theory is bunk, I'm afraid.

[Huxleys Babkins]

He's the same character in Trainspotting & Shallow Grave, isn't he?

Yup. Danny Boyle Expanded Universe!

[Brundle-Fly]

Yeah, I was wondering that. He sort of seemed to have floated up among a lot of 80s comedians without really being one himself. Was he the guy with the coke contacts or something?

No, he was a key figure in the late 1970s/ early 1980s comedy scene.

https://www.alternativecabaret.co.uk/index.html

[BeardFaceMan]

No, he was a key figure in the late 1970s/ early 1980s comedy scene.

https://www.alternativecabaret.co.uk/index.html

While always an adamant non-member Keith Allen was a regular guest at many Alt Cab club nights as was the actress Maggie Steed and singer-songwriter Helen Glavin.

A key figure? I hope you did a lot of warming up before making that massive stretch.

[Lisa Jesusandmarychain]

He's the same character in just about every fucking thing he's in, isn't he?

FTFY.

[lazyhour]

Here from 18:20 is the best scene he ever did.

https://youtu.be/vUVkxHQxB_8

[Armed Traffic Warden]

A key figure? I hope you did a lot of warming up before making that massive stretch.

I was recently listening to a podcast with Lee Cornes and he certainly thought that Keith Allen was the original rising star of the scene. Obviously that didn't last long and he was superseded by... a lot of his contemporaries.

[BeardFaceMan]

I was recently listening to a podcast with Lee Cornes and he certainly thought that Keith Allen was the original rising star of the scene. Obviously that didn't last long and he was superseded by... a lot of his contemporaries.

When it quickly became clear he wasn't that funny and he was all cock and no substance. I'm not suggesting that he wasn't involved in the scene at all but to claim he was a key figure is laughable.

[Armed Traffic Warden]

When it quickly became clear he wasn't that funny and he was all cock and no substance. I'm not suggesting that he wasn't involved in the scene at all but to claim he was a key figure is laughable.

At least something about him has you laughing; glass half full and all that.

[Jake Thingray]

Allen could be categorised as the forerunner of Ricky Gervais, in his charmlessness, bullying, politically incorrect snidery and shameless networking.

[lipsink]

Yeah, I remember a Comic Strip Presents doc saying that Allen was the one of the best acts in the late 70s/ early 80s alternative circuit and the one they thought was gonna be a huge star. But the only footage they seemed to have looked a bit 'meh'. Maybe you just had to be there.

Thing is, why is he just hovering about, dabbling here and there in Tv and film in the 80s and 90s? Where is his actual output? He just sort of, pops up in stuff, know what I mean?

[ProvanFan]

They're rock 'ard, dad!

[Mister Six]

Yeah, I remember a Comic Strip Presents doc saying that Allen was the one of the best acts in the late 70s/ early 80s alternative circuit and the one they thought was gonna be a huge star. But the only footage they seemed to have looked a bit 'meh'. Maybe you just had to be there.

Thing is, why is he just hovering about, dabbling here and there in Tv and film in the 80s and 90s? Where is his actual output? He just sort of, pops up in stuff, know what I mean?

Yeah, where's his cash come from? Did he just make some smart property investments in the 80s?

[Brundle-Fly]

When it quickly became clear he wasn't that funny and he was all cock and no substance. I'm not suggesting that he wasn't involved in the scene at all but to claim he was a key figure is laughable.

Whether you think Keith Allen was funny or not is beside the point, he was one of the main protagonists in the birth of the alternative comedy scene. He was also part of The Comic Strip, irrespective what people think about the quality of his self written episodes. He never wanted to be pigeonholed as being part of a scene and had a reputation of being a cunt. This is probably why the man has mainly only ,popped up in things' ,made his own docs , novelty football records and carved out a career as a serious screen actor where he just gets on with the job.
 I gather, he's calmed down a lot over the past decade and doesn't drink or whatnot anymore. He will turn seventy next year.

[buzby]

Thing is, why is he just hovering about, dabbling here and there in Tv and film in the 80s and 90s? Where is his actual output? He just sort of, pops up in stuff, know what I mean?

Here's what Lily Allen says about her father's career in her autobiography Smile:

I didn't know much about Dad when I was young, except that he was an actor. He wasn't commercially successful. He was and is brilliant at what he does – writing, acting, comedy, stand-up – but he's a self-saboteur. I understand that, as I am, too.

He was part of The Comic Strip in the 1980s, and I hear him get name-checked by comedians from that era as one of their heroes, but unlike many of them, he couldn't channel his comedic gifts into a proper career. He did this one-man show in the Docklands back then, when he came on stage naked and didn't allude to it for the first twelve minutes or so of the set, and people still talk to me about it. No one had done anything like that before. He was new and original and anarchic, but he
couldn't sustain anything. Sustaining something takes work, after all. You can be brilliant once, but to keep doing it over and over is hard and intimidating, and that's what I think he was scared of: keeping it up.

(she doesn't have much else good to say about him in the book)

Yeah, where's his cash come from? Did he just make some smart property investments in the 80s?

During the 80s when he wasn't working he and his then-wife Alison Owen had a sandwich business, and also delivered booze after-hours to well-heeled dinner parties (Alison had some high-society connections through her friendship with Rose Boyt, Lucien Freud's daughter). He started having an affair with The Comic Strip's producer Nira Park in the late 80s which led to Owen divorcing him in 1989, just as her film producing career was taking off.

He and Park set up the production company Big Talk in 1995, but they eventually divorced due to his womanising (in  Lily's book she says that he has somewhere between 8 and 11 children). Other than that from reading bits of his autobigraphy Blow Up, he seems to have been king of the liggers, with his booze and drug-fuelled escapades being financed by his more famous and wealthier friends like Richardson, Strummer, James and Hirst.

[BeardFaceMan]

Whether you think Keith Allen was funny or not is beside the point, he was one of the main protagonists in the birth of the alternative comedy scene. He was also part of The Comic Strip, irrespective what people think about the quality of his self written episodes. He never wanted to be pigeonholed as being part of a scene and had a reputation of being a cunt. This is probably why the man has mainly only ,popped up in things' ,made his own docs , novelty football records and carved out a career as a serious screen actor where he just gets on with the job.
 I gather, he's calmed down a lot over the past decade and doesn't drink or whatnot anymore. He will turn seventy next year.

Being 'a part of' and being a 'key figure' or 'main protagonist' are miles apart. You act like he was some comedy Godfather orchestrating everything when in reality he was just joining in with what others had created. Look at that quote from my post above from the article you linked, he wasn't a key figure in the Alt Cab, he was a guest, on par with the likes of Maggie Steed. He's the king of hangers-on (hanger-ons?).

[thr0b]

I suspect he is a cunt, but an undeniably talented cunt who isn't afraid to produce controversial documentaries and stand by them. Wouldn't want to spend any time with him, would ask him to sign a DVD of The Yob or something if I happened to be carrying one and bumped into him. Which I wouldn't be and won't.

[Brundle-Fly]

Being 'a part of' and being a 'key figure' or 'main protagonist' are miles apart. You act like he was some comedy Godfather orchestrating everything when in reality he was just joining in with what others had created. Look at that quote from my post above from the article you linked, he wasn't a key figure in the Alt Cab, he was a guest, on par with the likes of Maggie Steed. He's the king of hangers-on (hanger-ons?).

I never suggested he was 'some comedy Godfather orchestrating everything'. What I'm saying if you were to look into the early history of alternative comedy, Keith Allen was one of the original pioneers along with Sayle, Tony Allen, Arnold Brown...etc. I'm not saying Keith Allen was in their league as a stand up but he was groundbreaking in his own way and many comedians of that era will tell you as much. I dunno, maybe you were gigging on the Soho cabaret circuit in 1979 and need to set the record straight. 

[BeardFaceMan]

I never suggested he was 'some comedy Godfather orchestrating everything'. What I'm saying if you were to look into the early history of alternative comedy, Keith Allen was one of the original pioneers along with Sayle, Tony Allen, Arnold Brown...etc. I'm not saying Keith Allen was in their league as a stand up but he was groundbreaking in his own way and many comedians of that era will tell you as much. I dunno, maybe you were gigging on the Soho cabaret circuit in 1979 and need to set the record straight. 

He was there, certainly. A pioneer? You have to be trolling this point. Can you link to some of this pioneering material or performances from him from the era? Genuinely interested to here/see it,any kind of Comic Strip/alternative comedy docs I've seen just make passing reference to him, any of his groundbreaking ("in his own way", whatever the fuck that means. Getting his cock out?) comedy seems to to absent.

[Brundle-Fly]

He was there, certainly. A pioneer? You have to be trolling this point. Can you link to some of this pioneering material or performances from him from the era? Genuinely interested to here/see it,any kind of Comic Strip/alternative comedy docs I've seen just make passing reference to him, any of his groundbreaking ("in his own way", whatever the fuck that means. Getting his cock out?) comedy seems to to absent.

Trolling? No, I just don't agree with you. Proof of his performances? Unfortunately, I don't have any forty two year old Comedy Store film footage at hand, I'm only going by past conversations I've had with alt comics from that era. I won't namedrop them, but I used to do stand up on the London circuit myself thirty years ago. I was always grilling comedians in the after show bar about the old days. Anyway, if you think he was a chancer then of course, that's your prerogative.

I suppose, I just wanted to bring another perspective to the thread rather than have several pages of just calling somebody a cunt.

[buzby]

Can you link to some of this pioneering material or performances from him from the era?

I don't think there's much about from his early days, but there's the full video of his 1990 'I Love Keith Allen - Live At The Astoria' VHS (made to cash in on the 'success' of his BSB standup/sketch show, and appearance on World In Motion) is on youtube:
Part 1 (this is largely just the band until the last couple of minutes)
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6 (ends with a mortifying version of World In Motion)

[JaDanketies]

Shit that Vindaloo references some racist bullshit he said. I had no idea and always enjoyed the song, I thought it was referencing the Cultural Melting Pot of Great Britain initially until I read Wikipedia.

He was great in the Pembrokeshire Murders, as has previously been said. Lily Allen is okay in my books too. Good songs and good politics. I'm sure I saw him hosting a good documentary but can't see what it was.

[Twonty Gostelow]

I don't think there's much about from his early days, but there's the full video of his 1990 'I Love Keith Allen - Live At The Astoria' VHS (made to cash in on the 'success' of his BSB standup/sketch show, and appearance on World In Motion) is on youtube:
Part 1 (this is largely just the band until the last couple of minutes)
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6 (ends with a mortifying version of World In Motion)

That show includes him telling his Max Bygraves anecdote, which I imagine is how he sounded when holding court at The Groucho with a load of wankers cheering him on. (Or maybe they all sat quietly reading, I don't know.)

Has he disowned the sketch show? There doesn't seem to be much trace of it apart fom this brief clip and promo interview. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ih5gvTGCP4c&t=137s

[BeardFaceMan]

Unfortunately, I don't have any forty two year old Comedy Store film footage at hand

Whereas there's lots of footage/audio of Rik & Ade, The Outer Limits, Alexei Sayle etc but suspiciously none of the pioneering, groundbreaking comedy of Allen. Its not just people calling him a cunt, there are also people flabbergasted that anybody could talk about Allen's comedy in that way. I feel like we're a cunthair away from you describing him as a comedians comedian so I'm going to bow out.

I don't think there's much about from his early days, but there's the full video of his 1990 'I Love Keith Allen - Live At The Astoria' VHS (made to cash in on the 'success' of his BSB standup/sketch show, and appearance on World In Motion) is on youtube:
Part 1 (this is largely just the band until the last couple of minutes)
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6 (ends with a mortifying version of World In Motion)

Thank you for that, I'll check it out later.

[Brundle-Fly]

Whereas there's lots of footage/audio of Rik & Ade, The Outer Limits, Alexei Sayle etc but suspiciously none of the pioneering, groundbreaking comedy of Allen. Its not just people calling him a cunt, there are also people flabbergasted that anybody could talk about Allen's comedy in that way. I feel like we're a cunthair away from you describing him as a comedians comedian so I'm going to bow out.

I haven't at any point said he was a comedy genius or anything of the like, just that he was a regular face at the beginning of that scene and was doing something very different (along with a handful of others) to what stand up had been perceived as up until then. Whether if his schtick/routine would stand up to scrutiny today is neither here or there. I have spoken to a lot of his contemporaries and they said, (like Sayle) when he went on a rant or attacked the audience, sometimes he was brilliant, sometimes it was boring. What can we do? Get a TARDIS?

Here's a cool pic though.

[Autopsy Turvey]

Whereas there's lots of footage/audio of Rik & Ade, The Outer Limits, Alexei Sayle etc but suspiciously none of the pioneering, groundbreaking comedy of Allen.

Seems there's a bit of a 'pics or it didn't happen' element to this. There's not exactly *lots* of footage of early Rik/Ade/Pete/Nige, there were some bootleg-quality tape recordings released for the motorway service station market in the mid-late 90s, and there was that Julien Temple film. Keith's absence from these could be because he didn't strive to be associated with the venue/movement as much as the others, and that he wasn't as regular or reliable a turn.

In the thesis Stand-Up Comedy and Everyday Life: Post-War British Comedy and the Subversive Strain (http://research.gold.ac.uk/id/eprint/28986/1/thesis_RitchieC_1998.pdf), it is noted that Tony Allen "cites Keith Allen (no relation) as injecting much of the early energy and politics into the Comedy Store." (Although there weren't many enterprising owners of late-70s camcorders capturing Tony Allen's early stand-up for posterity either, so maybe his significance is equally suspect.) It also notes of Rik and Ade: "After the Comedy Store opened in May, 1979, they eventually became regular performers as part of the "second wave" of comedians and comics, following Sayle, Keith Allen and Tony Allen and the more stand-up oriented performers."

There's also this testimony from Alexei's blog (http://www.alexeisayle.me/home/2010/2/3/blog-no-29.html): "if I'm honest I have to say that seeing the young Keth (sic) Allen was an extraordinary experience, this was the first time I saw a comic that you were genuinely frightened of. One early gig we did at Goldsmiths College he threw darts at the audience and then attacked them with a fire extinguisher, another night at the Albany Empire he upset a table full of Poles on the night that martial law was declared in their country. I think he influenced me more than I admitted either to myself or him at the time, his problem was that he either couldn't or didn't want to reproduce the same performance night after night so that sometimes he would just be bad."

There's also one citation online for a nice Jerry Sadowitz quote, though its origin isn't attributed: "In 1979 Keith Allen, Tony Allen and Alexei Sayle opened the door to a whole new way of thinking about comedy. And in 1981, Ben Elton closed it."