Did hard house just lie down and die?

[Catalogue of ills]

There was a time (very late 90s / early '00s) when my noggin was all abuzz with sharp beats and hoover noises and hard house was very much in the ascendant. And then nothing, as far as I can tell. Not even a mini revival at any point in the last 20 years that I know of. What happened? Was Fergie buried under an avalanche of Tony de Vit's vinyl after trying to stack one last, fatal BK 12" on the upper slopes?

[Goldentony]

come to Liverpool literally any night of the week if you're missing it

[Catalogue of ills]

come to Liverpool literally any night of the week if you're missing it

Really? Is it one of those situations where it's lived on in an isolated pocket, like Sheffield and speed garage?

[Goldentony]

Really? Is it one of those situations where it's lived on in an isolated pocket, like Sheffield and speed garage?

near enough every big night I worked the last few years either the shite cloakroom or bar for that wasnt a band was usually a house night of varying levels of impact, hard to funky

[Johnny Yesno]

It cracked due to subsidence.

[Captain Z]

I was quite surprised to notice Buzby's favourites Tidy Trax have recently relaunched and are releasing a fair amount of new music/merchandise. Not sure how much of it is being bought/enjoyed for nostalgia purposes or if there is a re-emerging scene, I recognise several of the artist names from the first time around.

[Replies From View]

Die Hard House is a Christmas house

[monkfromhavana]

When the hard house scene changed to becoming happy hardcore at about 30 BPM slower it tied itself into the happy hardcore/ UK hardcore death spiral. I thought Liverpool was all "Scouse House" and "Bounce" - basically, slower hard house but would be in the same death spiral if it ventures out of the north-west of England.

[Sonny_Jim]

Chris Liberator et al are still banging out the Acid Techno, although admittedly that's not really hard house.  Russian Hard Bass is basically hard house though, isn't it?

[Catalogue of ills]

I was quite surprised to notice Buzby's favourites Tidy Trax have recently relaunched and are releasing a fair amount of new music/merchandise. Not sure how much of it is being bought/enjoyed for nostalgia purposes or if there is a re-emerging scene, I recognise several of the artist names from the first time around.

Wait, Buzby's involved? That's brilliant, he will have chapter and verse.

[Uncle TechTip]

When the hard house scene changed to becoming happy hardcore at about 30 BPM slower it tied itself into the happy hardcore/ UK hardcore death spiral. I thought Liverpool was all "Scouse House" and "Bounce" - basically, slower hard house but would be in the same death spiral if it ventures out of the north-west of England.

"...John Peel is not enough"

[buzby]

Wait, Buzby's involved? That's brilliant, he will have chapter and verse.

The good Captain was doing a sarcasm. He's referring to my disparaging posts about the Pickles and how Jive Bunny ended up financing Tidy Trax from the TOTP thread (the discussion continues down that thread and onto the next page).

[sevendaughters]

all your donk groups like Blackout Crew started to get into proper rapping

[shoulders]

I remember what was advertised as Funky House in the early 00s was far removed from House as to have no real appeal. Not that it was ever my favourite genre but I guess it had a period of credibility and was forcing itself onto Pop whereas Funky House to me seemed the other way around.

[itsfredtitmus]

klubbheadscausingaheartattack

[itsfredtitmus]

getreadyforthelaunch

[itsfredtitmus]

donk, hard house and funky house will never die!

[Pauline Walnuts]

Hardcore will never die, but you will.

[imitationleather]

Hardcore will never die, but you will.

Oh no, didn't you hear?

Hardcore was driving home late last night and it went straight into a lamppost. :(

[Captain Z]

I remember what was advertised as Funky House in the early 00s was far removed from House as to have no real appeal. Not that it was ever my favourite genre but I guess it had a period of credibility and was forcing itself onto Pop whereas Funky House to me seemed the other way around.

What do you class as funky house, out of interest?

To me it feels quite firmly connected to house's origins in disco, certainly when I think of the sampling of strings and basslines in the artists/records it conjures up for me (Spiller, Pete Heller, Dajae, Masters at Work, Boris Dluglosh, Alan Braxe, Junior Jack, Shapeshifters ...etc). I must have heard the term around 2000/01, but acknowledge that it possibly didn't catch on until around 2003/04*, and it then became a slightly different beast when some of those artists (and a crop of new ones) shifted in a more cynically commercial direction (Eric Prydz - Call On Me, Armand van Helden - My My My, Tim Deluxe - Just Won't Do, Axwell - Feel The Vibe ...etc). Things like Shapeshifters - Lola's Theme and Freemasons - Love On My Mind still had core disco influences.

*And possibly never caught on outside the UK; Discogs doesn't acknowledge it as a genre


2004 also feels like where hard house ended. I was a big fan of Nukleuz, but BK leaving to set up his own label was the beginning of the end for them. With Mauro Picotto, Mario Piu and co. at sister-label BXR shifting in a minimal/techno/tech house direction they lost grip of the trance scene (Judge Jules and Dave Pearce had been big supporters of their releases on Radio1) and dedicated themselves to hardcore. Trance itself slowed down seemingly overnight in 2005. Whereas a typical set would have been structured from trance --> tech/hard trance it was all now house/progressive house --> trance, anything over 138bpm was out of fashion. Possibly to do with the drugs available, possibly to do with producers of a certain age feeling they had to do something more credible or current. Everything has got a bit stuck since the EDM tsunami. There seems to be no appetite for anything north of 128bpm, and this has been the case for a long time.

[shoulders]

Maybe simply in comparison to Hard House the shift to Funky House was noticeable to the extent of thinking 'Huh, why even bother calling this House?'

Much of the house I listened/listen to is between 80s, Acid era up to the mid to late 90s.

[Catalogue of ills]

What do you class as funky house, out of interest?

To me it feels quite firmly connected to house's origins in disco, certainly when I think of the sampling of strings and basslines in the artists/records it conjures up for me (Spiller, Pete Heller, Dajae, Masters at Work, Boris Dluglosh, Alan Braxe, Junior Jack, Shapeshifters ...etc). I must have heard the term around 2000/01, but acknowledge that it possibly didn't catch on until around 2003/04*, and it then became a slightly different beast when some of those artists (and a crop of new ones) shifted in a more cynically commercial direction (Eric Prydz - Call On Me, Armand van Helden - My My My, Tim Deluxe - Just Won't Do, Axwell - Feel The Vibe ...etc). Things like Shapeshifters - Lola's Theme and Freemasons - Love On My Mind still had core disco influences.

*And possibly never caught on outside the UK; Discogs doesn't acknowledge it as a genre


2004 also feels like where hard house ended. I was a big fan of Nukleuz, but BK leaving to set up his own label was the beginning of the end for them. With Mauro Picotto, Mario Piu and co. at sister-label BXR shifting in a minimal/techno/tech house direction they lost grip of the trance scene (Judge Jules and Dave Pearce had been big supporters of their releases on Radio1) and dedicated themselves to hardcore. Trance itself slowed down seemingly overnight in 2005. Whereas a typical set would have been structured from trance --> tech/hard trance it was all now house/progressive house --> trance, anything over 138bpm was out of fashion. Possibly to do with the drugs available, possibly to do with producers of a certain age feeling they had to do something more credible or current. Everything has got a bit stuck since the EDM tsunami. There seems to be no appetite for anything north of 128bpm, and this has been the case for a long time.

That's an insightful post, you are right about things slowing down. Dance music started off slow (I remember Sara Cox playing "Where love lives" on the radio late 90s and saying "yes kids, dance music used to be that slow"), then sped up, then slowed down again.

Tony de Vit's epic Are You All Ready is over 150 BPM, I suspect if you played that in a club now you'd find they weren't all ready. Possibly quite under-prepared.

[Sebastian Cobb]

Silk City used to have a funky house show in the week when everything else was mostly Garage and Bashment, although all I remember about it was them never missing an opportunity to get Toni Di Bart in the mix somewhere.

this was them https://www.facebook.com/joehuntproducerdj/videos/the-silk-city-reunion/944003746366146/ can't believe they're still at it
 

[Better Midlands]

I don't really like house (or techno come to think of it) over 124 BPM, there's not enough space for interesting stuff to happen.

110-120 BPM is my ideal.

[monkfromhavana]

I don't really like house (or techno come to think of it) over 124 BPM, there's not enough space for interesting stuff to happen.

110-120 BPM is my ideal.

Movement 98 revival? :)

[Better Midlands]

Movement 98 revival? :)

Haha, that was a bit drippy. You can do good hard stuff at that BPM - I really like this

[Pauline Walnuts]

this was them https://www.facebook.com/joehuntproducerdj/videos/the-silk-city-reunion/944003746366146/ can't believe they're still at it
 

They're still doing that Zoë Ball inept turning the music down to talk over the music, no attempt to wait till an instrumental bit, or in time to the beat or nothing.

[Sebastian Cobb]

They're still doing that Zoë Ball inept turning the music down to talk over the music, no attempt to wait till an instrumental bit, or in time to the beat or nothing.

That was silk city for you, no compressors, no limiters, microphones always over-modulating to hell
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRF7_zAdfI4

Kool Midlands were probably the most professional outfit going I knew round my way, sounded quiet compared to actual local stations but always very clean. Shame they never returned after getting raided in 2002

[Pauline Walnuts]

Where they the ones based in one of the Dorothy towers at the top of the Bristol Road/Street/Horse Fair?

Or am I thinking of one of those Jungle/D'n'B pirates?

Saucepans full of water to cool the transmitters for goal posts isn't it?

[Sebastian Cobb]

Not sure where they were located. I know when Kool (which was Jungle/DnB and a sister station of Kool London) got raided an RnB/Neo Soul (Smoove possibly?) station got done at the same time, I think they shared a flat.

Kool seemed to be a bit more of a professional outfit I think, they used to have a talk show in the dead of night and I think they had a multi-line telephone installed.