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March 28, 2024, 05:29:46 PM

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The Thin Man (1934) and its sequels

Started by Small Man Big Horse, December 20, 2021, 08:29:02 PM

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Small Man Big Horse

Previously on CaB:

Quote from: Egyptian Feast on December 02, 2021, 10:26:25 AMNot sure if it fits the above categories (maybe 3), but The Thin Man (1934) is a great Christmas film and possibly one of the most lethal movies to base a drinking game around. Nick & Nora Charles spend the holiday getting hammered, taking the piss out of each other & everybody, and somehow solve a bunch of murders. Absolute brilliance.

Nora: "I read you were shot five times in the tabloids".
Nick: "It's not true. He didn't come anywhere near my tabloids."

I watched this tonight as I've often found that Egyptian Feast and I have similar taste in films, and once again that was proven to be the case. Here's my letterbox'd review:

The Thin Man (1934) - Alcoholics Nick (William Powell) and Nora Charles (Myrna Loy) are happily married and trade pithy one liners in an enormously charming and funny way, and dear lord am I slightly in love with Loy. Nick used to be a detective but gave it up when he married Nora, but when inventor Clyde Wynant is considered the main suspect in his mistress's murder Nora persuades Nick to take on the case. Powell and Loy are amazing together and have incredible chemistry, their Christmas party is packed with eccentric characters and some extremely funny exchanges, and while it becomes slightly more plot heavy in the final third it's still exceedingly enjoyable,
Spoiler alert
especially the way Nick invites all the suspects to dinner and questions everyone as he tries to work out who was behind it all
[close]
. 8.5/10

So is anyone else a fan? And if so, are any of the sequels worth watching?

Replies From View

Amazing titles the sequels have:

After the Thin Man (1936)
Another Thin Man (1939)
Shadow of the Thin Man (1941)
The Thin Man Goes Home (1945)
Song of the Thin Man (1947)


'Another Thin Man' is hilariously non-arsed, but 'The Thin Man Goes Home' sounds like the title of a Thomas the Tank Engine story.

Replies From View

Truly, though, there will only ever be one Thin Man for me:


Egyptian Feast

Glad you enjoyed it SMBH! It's such a delight.

As for the sequels, they unsurprisingly suffer from the law of diminishing returns, but are all pretty watchable. After The Thin Man is a worthy, if overlong, sequel which follows directly from the original, with Nick & Nora arriving home for some much needed rest and getting unwillingly pulled into another convoluted case. I'd definitely recommend catching that one.

The constant drinking of the first two films was gradually toned down from this point due to Hayes Office puritanism and by the fifth film poor Nick is reduced to drinking cider (and not the alcoholic kind)! This does kind of affect the vibe of the later films and they're not as fun, but Powell and Loy are so charming I could watch them scrubbing toilets.

Of the later films, I like Shadow Of The Thin Man and the teetotal The Thin Man Goes Home the best. The third in the series, Another Thin Man has such an arsehole of a villain (this ridiculous twerp who dreams of people dying and threatens them) and a clunky plot that I hasten to recommend it, but in its favour does have William Powell doing the "Walk this way" gag Mel Brooks was so fond of.

Ignatius_S

Quote from: Small Man Big Horse on December 20, 2021, 08:29:02 PM...So is anyone else a fan? And if so, are any of the sequels worth watching?...

Yes - and yes; all of them. If you liked the first, all are worth watching. Although the laws of diminishing returns are at play, it's a matter of opinion. to what extent. My least favourite (but I still like it) is the penultimate one, whereas some think it's one of the best; I've seen people say the second is one of the worst.

Also, I would really recommend the book as well - if you think Nick enjoys a tipple in the film, that's nothing compared to the source material. The film an excellent adaptation and quite faithful, but the tone is slightly different; although there is humour to the story, the story is a darker,

Powell and Loy remain as sparkling throughout the series and the supporting cast is always memorable - James Stewart is is one of the leading supports in the next film. Nat Pendleton and Edward Brophy from the first, also crop up again in the series. Shemp Howard is particularly good as one of the low-life criminal element from Nick's cast.

Basically, they don't change much of the format - the first was a surprise hit and they had the good sense not to tamper with the formula. Van Dyke remained the director for the next three and I think the same writers remained, which I think helped.

Although they spent a lot more on the sequels, both in time and money, I don't think it really shows - it's amazing to think that the first was knocked off in a couple of weeks, but then again, Warners B-Movie division/factory was simply outstanding.

Mister Six

I read the novel it was based on earlier this year, and sadly it was wank. The mystery basically all happens offscreen, Nora's barely in it, the banter is pretty subpar (I don't think the tabloid line is in the book at all) and there's a bit where a character reads an essay on cannibalism (which is relayed in full to the reader) that has nothing to do with the story, and which people seem to think was because Chandler was getting paid by the word.

I did like the bits where Nick casually mentions having to shove the dog away while he gets on with things, though. Nice detail. And I like dogs.

Small Man Big Horse

Thanks for those very detailed replies about the sequels Egyptian Feast and Ignatius_S, there was a lot of fascinating info and I'm definitely going to watch them over time, it feels like it might not be a good idea to binge them, but watching one a week is my rough plan at the moment.

Small Man Big Horse

Quote from: Small Man Big Horse on December 21, 2021, 09:08:38 AMI'm definitely going to watch them over time, it feels like it might not be a good idea to binge them, but watching one a week is my rough plan at the moment.

Um, well, once a month maybe then. Anyhow:

After The Thin Man (1936) - The beloved alcoholics are back to solve another crime, with this time it being a family affair as Nora's sister is suspected of killing her cheating husband, so Nick must save the day. James Stewart has a supporting role and is as great as ever while Jessie Ralph is fantastic as Nora's Aunt Katherine, and my only real complaint is that it doesn't feature enough of Nick and Nora getting pissed and trading one liners, oh, and that Asta's bizarre plot where Mrs Asta is clearly cheating on him with a neighbour's dog doesn't get a better pay off, but otherwise this was extremely engaging once again. 7.5/10

Egyptian Feast

Quote from: Small Man Big Horse on January 17, 2022, 02:49:23 PMmy only real complaint is that it doesn't feature enough of Nick and Nora getting pissed and trading one liners

Sadly, this is going to be more of an issue as the series continues. They should've gone the other way and had Nick so impaired by years of constant boozing by the final installment he sacks off the case and pins everything on a bartender who gave him attitude in the opening scene.

Small Man Big Horse

Quote from: Egyptian Feast on January 17, 2022, 07:11:09 PMSadly, this is going to be more of an issue as the series continues. They should've gone the other way and had Nick so impaired by years of constant boozing by the final installment he sacks off the case and pins everything on a bartender who gave him attitude in the opening scene.

That's a real shame, I was semi-prepared for it when I read your post above (and all but gasped at the non-alcoholic cider bit!), but perhaps I'll find myself less disappointed knowing not to expect too much from the rest of them.

Egyptian Feast

There's still plenty of fun to be had despite the diminishing returns and Nick & Nora are always great company, so I'm sure you'll find the remaining films entertaining. I've watched them all a few times and no doubt will again before too long.

notjosh

I haven't seen any of the sequels, but The Ex-Mrs Bradford, with Powell and Jean Arthur, and Star of Midnight, with Powell and Ginger Rogers, are both pretty decent knock-offs, as I recall. Powell and Myrna Loy also made a few others outside the series but I've not gone into any of them yet.

Small Man Big Horse

Quote from: notjosh on January 17, 2022, 09:47:32 PMI haven't seen any of the sequels, but The Ex-Mrs Bradford, with Powell and Jean Arthur, and Star of Midnight, with Powell and Ginger Rogers, are both pretty decent knock-offs, as I recall. Powell and Myrna Loy also made a few others outside the series but I've not gone into any of them yet.

Yeah, I read that they made 14 films together in total, so eight non-Thin Man films, and I'll definitely sample a few of them to see what they're like.

Another Thin Man (1939) - The weakest in the series so far without much alcohol abuse at all, though at least I'd been warned about this so wasn't too upset. Thankfully the pithy one liners and William Powell and Myrna Low are still pretty funny, while the mystery is a fairly complex one, but while I'll definitely watch the next in the series I won't rush to do so and I've a feeling it'll benefit from that 6.8/10

notjosh

Not seen that, but I know it's one of Jimmy Stewart's earliest. How was he?

Small Man Big Horse

Quote from: notjosh on February 09, 2022, 07:28:14 PMNot seen that, but I know it's one of Jimmy Stewart's earliest. How was he?

Ah, that was the second film, After The Thin Man, but he's really great in it, playing a quite different role to those he's best known for.

phantom_power

In response to this thread I ended up watching....The 39 Steps as I got the name of the film wrong. That is a great Hitchcock thriller but not The Thin Man. So then I tracked down The Thin Man and watched that. And it is great. I loved the main characters and their loving but playful relationship. The mystery was a bit rote but that isn't really the point. Why is it called The Thin Man? I suppose Wynant was quite thin, certainly by the end of the film, chortle

Small Man Big Horse

Quote from: phantom_power on February 15, 2022, 09:16:17 AMIn response to this thread I ended up watching....The 39 Steps as I got the name of the film wrong. That is a great Hitchcock thriller but not The Thin Man. So then I tracked down The Thin Man and watched that. And it is great. I loved the main characters and their loving but playful relationship. The mystery was a bit rote but that isn't really the point. Why is it called The Thin Man? I suppose Wynant was quite thin, certainly by the end of the film, chortle

I wondered that when I first watched it, and apparently it does relate to Wynant as Nick refers to him as a "thin man with white hair", though audiences ignored that and presumed it was meant to describe Nick and so the title stuck throughout the series.

Small Man Big Horse

I watched one of the non-Thin Man William Powell and Myrna Loy movies today:

Double Wedding (1937) - Waldo (John Beal) and Irene (Florence Rice) are engaged to each other and both are actors rehearsing for director Charlie (William Powell), until Irene falls in love with the latter and Charlie falls for Irene's stern sister Margit (Myrna Loy). You can probably guess how this all plays out, and Powell once again gets to have the most fun as the free spirited Charlie, but his chemistry with Loy is undeniable and there's enough cute moments along the way to make this lightweight but entertaining fare. 7.1/10


Small Man Big Horse

Shadow Of The Thin Man (1941) - A dead jockey and a journalist framed for a murder leads Nick and Nora in to detective mode once again, the mystery isn't the most exciting ever but their attempts at solving it are strong, and this time around highlights include a visit to a wrestling match, the restaurant brawl and turtle race, and the Carousel scene (where Nick is bullied by children and poor Astor truly doesn't look well!), plus Nora gets a fair bit more to do this time around which is always a good thing. Perhaps it benefitted from watching this with lowered expectations but I found myself feeling that it was just great to be back in Nick and Nora's company. 7.0/10

Egyptian Feast

That's probably my favourite of the later sequels. The ridiculous 'trick' photography they use with Asta at certain points is a hoot.

Interesting to see method acting guru Stella Adler in the cast, though I always forget which character she played after I've seen it, so it can't be the most memorable performance. I looked her up and Wikipedia claims in her bio that she only appeared in three movies, but states in the page for this film that she was in three Thin Man movies. I assume the latter claim is bollocks.

Small Man Big Horse

Quote from: Egyptian Feast on March 23, 2022, 05:44:48 PMThat's probably my favourite of the later sequels. The ridiculous 'trick' photography they use with Asta at certain points is a hoot.

That made me chuckle too, especially when it's clearly sped up or being reversed.

QuoteInteresting to see method acting guru Stella Adler in the cast, though I always forget which character she played after I've seen it, so it can't be the most memorable performance. I looked her up and Wikipedia claims in her bio that she only appeared in three movies, but states in the page for this film that she was in three Thin Man movies. I assume the latter claim is bollocks.

She plays the woman with a dodgy past and a fake name, and comes out with one of the best lines of the film - "And I haven't killed a jockey in weeks - really", I thought she was fairly decent in it, albeit nothing that amazing. And yeah, I'm pretty sure it's bollocks, and I can't find any evidence of her being in two others.

Ignatius_S

Quote from: Small Man Big Horse on February 15, 2022, 11:46:41 AMI wondered that when I first watched it, and apparently it does relate to Wynant as Nick refers to him as a "thin man with white hair", though audiences ignored that and presumed it was meant to describe Nick and so the title stuck throughout the series.

In the book, there are a few references to Wynant's build - e.g. Nick describes him something like 'tall and one of the thinnest men I've ever seen. However, the photograph of Hammett on the front cover caused confusion for readers, assuming he was 'the thin man' - the Wikipedia page for the book shows the image and he's no chunky monkey.

Ignatius_S

Quote from: Small Man Big Horse on December 21, 2021, 09:08:38 AMThanks for those very detailed replies about the sequels Egyptian Feast and Ignatius_S, there was a lot of fascinating info and I'm definitely going to watch them over time, it feels like it might not be a good idea to binge them, but watching one a week is my rough plan at the moment.

Meant to say (ages ago) that I think that's a good approach - when I got the box set, I whipped through them and although I don't regret it, it did affect how I judged them.  Glad you're enjoying them!

Ignatius_S

Quote from: Mister Six on December 21, 2021, 12:38:41 AMI read the novel it was based on earlier this year, and sadly it was wank. The mystery basically all happens offscreen, Nora's barely in it, the banter is pretty subpar (I don't think the tabloid line is in the book at all) and there's a bit where a character reads an essay on cannibalism (which is relayed in full to the reader) that has nothing to do with the story, and which people seem to think was because Chandler was getting paid by the word.

I did like the bits where Nick casually mentions having to shove the dog away while he gets on with things, though. Nice detail. And I like dogs.

Years later, Lillian Hellman was asked why Hammett quoted the Alfred Packer case from Duke's Celebrated Criminal Cases Of America and replied that he said that he needed to pad the book out. Richard Layman, Hammett's biographer and who most be the greatest authority on the writer, believes this is a credible explanation and also - very interestingly - points out that in the same section, when Nick is talking to Gilbert about being a detective, the text is from taken from a Hammett newspaper article years earlier. I haven't heard that people thought Hammett could be making a point about Chandler but as he is padding that chapter put by lifting text from two sources but one is essentially undetectable, feel that Hammett was more likely doing this to fulfil contractual obligations.

Personally, I liked the Duke's passage - although I have tended to skip it on re-reads - and it got me to find it online. From various comments, a lot of people seem to like, or at least, are intrigued by what Hammett was - that so many people find it a mystery is something that I feel is quite fun.

Ignatius_S

Quote from: Egyptian Feast on December 20, 2021, 08:54:45 PMGlad you enjoyed it SMBH! It's such a delight.

As for the sequels, they unsurprisingly suffer from the law of diminishing returns, but are all pretty watchable. After The Thin Man is a worthy, if overlong, sequel which follows directly from the original, with Nick & Nora arriving home for some much needed rest and getting unwillingly pulled into another convoluted case. I'd definitely recommend catching that one.

The constant drinking of the first two films was gradually toned down from this point due to Hayes Office puritanism and by the fifth film poor Nick is reduced to drinking cider (and not the alcoholic kind)! This does kind of affect the vibe of the later films and they're not as fun, but Powell and Loy are so charming I could watch them scrubbing toilets.

Of the later films, I like Shadow Of The Thin Man and the teetotal The Thin Man Goes Home the best. The third in the series, Another Thin Man has such an arsehole of a villain (this ridiculous twerp who dreams of people dying and threatens them) and a clunky plot that I hasten to recommend it, but in its favour does have William Powell doing the "Walk this way" gag Mel Brooks was so fond of.

With After The Thin Man, the producer and writers greatly complicated the story that Hammett had produced (the former even boasted about this) but after the first draft, Hammett was brought in to salvage it. With the film being overlong, although it doesn't outstay it's welcome, feel it could do with being a little tighter on subsequent re-watches.

With Another Thin Man, I wonder if the threatening through talking about dreams would have worked better with another actor. In Hammett's script story, I feel it works well.

Egyptian Feast

Quote from: Ignatius_S on March 23, 2022, 08:36:16 PMWith Another Thin Man, I wonder if the threatening through talking about dreams would have worked better with another actor. In Hammett's script story, I feel it works well.


It might have indeed. I was all for the concept in theory and I really enjoy the early scenes in Long Island (the eventful journey to the estate gave me White Zombie vibes), but Sheldon Leonard just came across as a very silly man.

I had to look him up to check his name and was surprised to find he was not only one of the most successful TV producers of the 50s/60s but also had the dubious posthumous honour of having two of the lead characters in The Big Bang Theory named after him.

Ignatius_S

Quote from: Egyptian Feast on March 23, 2022, 08:48:34 PMIt might have indeed. I was all for the concept in theory and I really enjoy the early scenes in Long Island (the eventful journey to the estate gave me White Zombie vibes), but Sheldon Leonard just came across as a very silly man.

I had to look him up to check his name and was surprised to find he was not only one of the most successful TV producers of the 50s/60s but also had the dubious posthumous honour of having two of the lead characters in The Big Bang Theory named after him.

Blimey - had no idea about those characters being named after him!

The Thin Man role is meant to have been a breakthrough one and he had done very few films - I wonder if that relative inexperience was a factor here. I've seen Leonard in other films, usually small roles, but more effective in those.

I'm a big fan of American Old-time Radio and was aware of his work in that field - very prolific and had a lots of supporting roles in significant shows. One role he's especially known for is a recurring racetrack tout on the Jack Benny Show (and on the television version as well) who always gave Benny tips on everything but horses and anything but useful.

There are a few articles I've read about shows he's been connected to and he comes across as a class act when talking about others. Just a shame he wasn't more menacing here!

Small Man Big Horse

The Thin Man Goes Home (1944) - At this point in the series they could have been really lazy and followed the standard set up, but I really like the way it heads back to Nick's hometown, explores the slightly strained relationship with his dear old papa, and has a range of really well written supporting characters. Plus Nora gets a lot more to do as you she stands up to Nick's Dad, buys her hubby a misjudged birthday present, follows one of Nick's old school friends around the town and almost starts a riot in the pool hall, plus her dancing with that horny young sailor was laugh out loud funny. It's possible I'm overrating this a bit, or at least in comparison to how I've rated the other films, but it was exactly what I was in the mood for and when I watch the final film in the series I know I'm going to really miss spending time with these characters. 7.5/10

Small Man Big Horse

Song of the Thin Man (1947) - And so we come to the end of the series, and sadly I thought this was the weakest out of all of them, if only because Nick and Nora spend most of the film trying to actually solve the crime rather than getting drunk and/or verbally sparring. There's still a few highlights including Nick feeling guilty about spanking a young Dean Stockwell, while a very sleepy Nora is good clean fun but it's a shame the script wasn't packed with gags in the way the best of the Thin Man films are. 6.3/10