"Cancel culture could wipe out comedy"

[Fambo Number Mive]

Dame Maureen Lipman has said comedy is in danger of being "wiped out" due to fears over being cancelled.

She told the BBC she believes comedians are now so worried about offending, "a revolution" is taking place.

"It's in the balance whether we will ever be funny again," she said.

Her comments come as more than half of Britons say they have stopped themselves from expressing political and social views for fear of being judged...

I find the whole fuss around "cancel culture" a bit baffling really. It does seem that a lot of people (and I'm not including Maureen Lipman in this) use "cancel culture" to mean "criticism of the things I say". I'm not sure why this is seen to be a new thing or something bad. I'd also argue that very, very few comedians are affected that much by so-called "cancel culture". When even Jim Davidson doesn't seem to have trouble finding work, and there are platforms like GB News and Sp**ed Online who would welcome with open arms anyone who was "cancelled", I just don't think it affects people. Even Louis CK can find work now it seems despite what he did. 

I met Dame Maureen in Manchester, where she was filming Coronation Street. She told me: "Cancel culture, this cancelling, this punishment, it's everywhere. Punishment. An eye for an eye. 'You said that, therefore you must never work again.' Sooner or later the cancellers will win."

She highlighted the world of comedy, which she claims is in danger of being "wiped out" because comedians fear audiences will take offence so they tone down their material.

It's a dramatic prediction. "Something has to be forbidden to make you laugh, really belly laugh. It's when you shouldn't be laughing," she said. "All the things that have been cancelled out by being correct are, I'm afraid, all the things that make people laugh."

But is she right? Many comedians say their industry is in fine - and funny - form. Nobody is being censored, they claim. And in the end, it is audiences who decide what's funny and what's offensive.

Take comedian Russell Kane, who knows a thing or two about cancellation. He presents Radio 4's Evil Genius, which each week takes a different figure from history and decides, based on their actions, whether they should be saved or cancelled.

He told me it's "complete nonsense" that comedians are sacrificing being funny because they don't want to be cancelled.

"I don't think anyone is saying you can't be offended, nobody is saying that, what we're saying is you can't use hate speech that would prompt a gender-related crime, a sex-related crime or a race-related crime."

"There's been a massive, much needed shift in the conversation around gender, around men's attitudes to women, around consent. Society has moved on."...

I agree with Russell Kane on this. While I like Maureen Lipman's comedy, she does talk a load of rubbish about "cancel culture".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-59703257

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

"OH COMEDY WILL GO EXTINCT BECAUSE YOU CAN'T OFFEND ANYBODY NOW"

of course a fucking Dame said this, she can literally only laugh at poors being kicked to death

no but seriously, this assumption that for comedy to exist you have to be able to do lazy bigoted observational shit about everyone who's not a white cishet male says more about the people hurrawking about comedians being "cancelled" than the people doing the "cancelling".

[Icehaven]

Admittedly I'm not that familiar with Lippman's body of work but I don't believe there's much she's done that she ''couldn't'' do now (although if she had a sideline writing for Bernard Manning I stand corrected). And this -

"Something has to be forbidden to make you laugh, really belly laugh. It's when you shouldn't be laughing,"

- is just patent bollocks.

[madhair60]

[removed - BAdmin]

[Alberon]

The only thing that's changed in my life that I can see is people whitter on about Cancel Culture now. It's always been like this! Even back in the 70s with Bernard Manning and his ilk if you said the wrong thing your career was over.

Back then the forbidden topics were different, calling the Queen Mother a bloodsucking parasite on British society for instance, but it has always been this way.

I think older people complaining about cancel culture is just another example of previously progressive persons getting a bit left behind. It can happen to us all.

[MojoJojo]

Are there many examples of comedians being cancelled for things they've said? There's Kramer, but that was 15 years ago.

It's probably my sleepy brain, but most cancellations have been about sexual harassment haven't they?

[madhair60]

There's also that stupid cunner Dave Chappelle who decided to effectively announce his own stupidity on stage and was rightly shunned to the point that he had to go and argue with schoolchildren, with whom he attempted to pull status. And still lost

Pathetic fucking cunt

[olliebean]

The BBC's interpretation of that YouGov poll is doing some heavy lifting, too:

While only a third (35%) of those polled said they knew what cancel culture was, many more effectively said they felt cancelled from time to time.

The less politically correct the views held, the more likely people were to say they feel shouted down.

"Effectively" said they felt cancelled. i.e., they didn't actually say they felt cancelled, that's how the article has chosen to interpret it. And what did people actually say?

They are most likely to keep quiet about what they really think when they are with people they've just met (49%) or are at work (40%), according to the data. A third (31%) also self-censor with friends, a fifth (21%) with family.

Keeping quiet about what you really think because you feel it might offend someone, or cause an argument, is just basic politeness. It's not being cancelled, and it's certainly not being "shouted down."

[peteprodge]

When's the last time Maureen Lipman told a joke? I think she's cancelled herself.

[dissolute ocelot]

Is this the same Maureen Lipman who spent the past few years finding imaginary offence in everything Jeremy Corbyn said and did?

[jobotic]

Is it not cancel culture to falsely accuse socialists of being antisemitic in order to silence them then?

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

Poirot's List of Things that are Funny
Puns/wordplay
A well-placed curse word
Parodies of rich people
The "straight man"'s reaction to another character's antics
Stupid high shitbags being outrageous
Violent slapstick
Someone attempting a ridiculous stunt and absolutely eating shit as a result
The idea that Buckingham Palace would put the Queen's dead preserved corpse in a car that they then drive around by remote control so that the press think she's still alive

Dame Lippman's List of Things that are Funny
"one simply can't laugh unless  it's at a transgender person"

[Mr Trumpet]

I literally only know her from the old BT adverts. When's Barry Scott weighing in with his opinion?

[madhair60]

Poirot's List of Things that are Funny
Puns/wordplay
A well-placed curse word
Parodies of rich people
The "straight man"'s reaction to another character's antics
Stupid high shitbags being outrageous
Violent slapstick
Someone attempting a ridiculous stunt and absolutely eating shit as a result
The idea that Buckingham Palace would put the Queen's dead preserved corpse in a car that they then drive around by remote control so that the press think she's still alive

Dame Lippman's List of Things that are Funny
"one simply can't laugh unless  it's at a transgender person"

what's your stance on someone going "oh brother!!" or "but if you're here, then that means... uh oh!"

[Pink Gregory]

Ah yes, social conservatism, what a barrel of laughs.

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

what's your stance on someone going "oh brother!!" or "but if you're here, then that means... uh oh!"

The phrases themselves are a little bit tired but the actual jokes (exasperated "straight man" voices exasperation, character believes a second character is doing something/somewhere else when they aren't) are still good, as long as they're well-placed.

[sevendaughters]

unforeseen pro of the 'culture wars' is people outing themselves left and right about being dreary shitstains who you can put on life's IGNORE function forever

[shiftwork2]

[Removed - BAdmin]

Wait till you find out she called her ology Jewish grandmother Beattie...because the ads were for BT.  You'll be getting off the fence rather soon I wager!

[Poirots BigGarlickyCorpse]

unforeseen pro of the 'culture wars' is people outing themselves left and right about being dreary shitstains who you can put on life's IGNORE function forever

people who think comedy is some guy with a microphone going "women be shopping"

[JamesTC]

I'd love them to give an example of a joke they feel they couldn't say now. I think it would be very revealing of the types who complain about this shit.

[Pink Gregory]

"The foreign person has a funny name" surely.

But it's not some act of wordplay (because that would be, you know, humour), it's just "lol this brown man's name isn't smith or peters like the white men I also look down my nose at."

[olliebean]

When's the last time Maureen Lipman told a joke? I think she's cancelled herself.

She's been in things that were billed as comedies, but I don't remember being offended by any of them, so I guess they can't have been funny.

[madhair60]

The phrases themselves are a little bit tired but the actual jokes (exasperated "straight man" voices exasperation, character believes a second character is doing something/somewhere else when they aren't) are still good, as long as they're well-placed.

What about someone going "uh... helloooo? Earth to [name]?!?"

(Forgive me, this could go on forever)

[Captain Z]

Always disliked her, ever since Driving School.

[sevendaughters]

Always disliked her, ever since Driving School.

*pulls steering wheel away*
WOAH WAOOOOOOOOOOOOOAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

[Jumblegraws]

It's a dramatic prediction

Can it really be considered dramatic when arts & entertainment duffers of Lipman's sort of standing have been making these claims several times a year for as long as I can remember?

[Ron Maels Moustache]

Where the fuck does Lippman get off on commenting on the world of comedy as it is now? She hasn't been involved in anything like it for decades and hasn't been funny for a lot longer, if ever she was.

A truly hateful person who writes for Sub-Spectator rags like the Tory thinktank-backed "Standpoint", which tells you all you need to know about where she's coming from. This is just more tedious Culture War bullshit.

[sevendaughters]

let's not forget Lipman is having a banner year for brilliant opinions
https://www.thejc.com/news/uk/maureen-lipman-resigns-from-actors-union-after-it-urges-members-to-join-pro-palestine-march-1.517049

[Fambo Number Mive]

I'd love them to give an example of a joke they feel they couldn't say now. I think it would be very revealing of the types who complain about this shit.

Exactly.

I think the thing that really annoys some of these comedians who complain about "cancel culture"(not saying this includes Maureen Lipman) is that now if they make some unpleasant remarks at a comedy club in Fulchester or somewhere, more people are likely to be aware of these remarks now thanks to the internet (and in particular Twitter), whereas twenty years ago only the people attending and some of their mates would be aware, perhaps a couple of papers would mention it in their review if it was a famous comedian. This still doesn't make them right about "cancel culture".

Interesting this is one of the top stories on the BBC News home page. The gammons complain the BBC is too left wing but "famous person complains about cancel culture" isn't really that newsworthy (although I did start a thread about it, so maybe I can't talk) so it does seem to be a political choice to feature it so heavily.

[Zetetic]

Not only the usual trivally disprovable nonsense, but also utterly hypocritical in the case of Lipman given how much she's tried to interfere in others' speech, including protesting plays and refusing to work with people for having expressed criticism of the Israeli government.