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SEX

Started by the science eel, December 28, 2021, 07:13:51 PM

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eh

loads
enough to keep me happy
now and again
never

TrenterPercenter

January 11, 2022, 11:14:07 AM #120 Last Edit: January 11, 2022, 12:03:22 PM by TrenterPercenter
Quote from: flotemysost on January 10, 2022, 11:54:07 PMI dunno, 20 is still pretty young IMO

Not really, at 20 you're brain has gone through all but one of its physiological changes, you are through adolescence and halfway through young adulthood.  What's happening at this stage is your prefrontal cortex is emerging, your personality is forming and based on your historical and contemporary experience.  20 year olds vary but it's not an age that we don't assume responsibility for actions and thoughts - you can be trialled as an adult for example.  Regardless I'm not sure what this has to do with anything (beyond some imo rather imo concern of whether Ellish is SWERF or not, I think the insistence on her being a SWERF and not just being a young person telling us her subjective experience is much more of a problem).  We don't need Ellish's #cancelled status to assess what she was saying and it isn't a view that hasn't been epoused before by older people.  I thought the counter article was pretty fair and really just struck a tone of disappointment at her repeating a common belief about sex workers.  What is relevant is that she was "regularly watching violent porn at the age of 11", which is unusual, to which the sex workers in the article rightly imo pointed out that shouldn't be happening, this isn't something aimed at her and she shouldn't have had access to it.  It's a bit like an 11 year old regularly going to a bar getting shitfaced on booze and then getting to legal drinking age and saying all bar staff must be disgusted with themselves and the lives they lead - it's just not a very reflective or considered view.  That doesn't discount the harm that it might have caused her, indeed she might have developed unhealthy attitudes to sex and unhealthy attitudes to sex work/sex workers.  This is often the problem that the traumatised think that their trauma and resulting worldview isn't subjective and never faulty.  I don't think we should be underwriting poor takes on anything, regardless of someones traumatic experience.  This doesn't mean we don't empathise with an individuals trauma (this is basic psychology 101 that is being distorted by a lot of activists in this era).

QuoteAt the end of the day these are pretty emotive and subjective topics and it's really hard not to project your own experiences and biases onto it (for example, I hate Page Three for various reasons but that doesn't mean I'm anti-porn, though someone could easily argue I'm being a hypocrite there).

The way that it works generally is that if you want to be objective you don't project your own biases into things, if you can't do that then you accept that you are not being objective.  For example in clinical services if you can't work with a particular group because of your subjective experiences you don't allow yourself to works with that group, same reason you can't work with people you know personally - subjective bias is unavoidable but managing it is not.  You have duty of care to be honest about your limitations and accept these limitations if making broad statements from a position of subjective bias.

Page 3 to me is problematic because it is in the middle of a newspaper, it normalises the objectification of women in environments it should not.  This is different from porn which is in it's own context (which is what the sex workers are saying about Ellish's take).

QuoteYeah, I can't disagree with any of that (which takes me back, sort of, to my earlier observation about how it does seem more people are just assuming that choking your partner during sex is OK, compared with a few years ago, going by my own and many people I know's anecdotal experiences - absolutely fine if that's a fantasy and if practiced, done safely and with consent from everyone involved, but it is definitely a bit worrying that people are breezily cracking out a move that could be potentially fatal if you fuck it up, often without even asking if their partner's OK with it or into it. I mean I'm not saying porn is solely to blame for that, I suspect it's a number of things, but it's a good example of why the concept of asking for consent really should continue to be normalised and not presented as this serious boring joyless thing that takes all the fun and sexiness out of the situation. It can be the opposite!).

I'm still not sure where your idea that consent shouldn't be normalised is coming from, consent is normalised, it is spoken about and people are aware that if someone isn't consenting then you are in the realms of abuse.  Girls are told at school that they can and should say no if they are not comfortable with something and boys are taught that "no" means no if girls say it to them.  One area that sticks out would be people with learning disorders or other vulnerable groups but in the main this happens. This doesn't then translate to people not doing bad things, carelessness or lack of confidence in putting these things into practice and keeping people safe, but it isn't because anyone is trying to remove the concept of consent.  You are absolutely right consent doesn't = no fun or sexiness but we are surrounded in mainstream media by depictions of sex which are counter to this; in fact porn is probably a bit better in this sense as there is of course presumed consent on behalf of the actor being there unless we are to believe that it just so happens a camera was left on the side prior to a sexy plumber coming round to fix someones pipes.

Perhaps what is needed is a more frank and honest conversation about how consent works in reality, how some people do find being asked unambiguously a turn off (something I've experienced quite few times myself - i.e. with me being more concerned about someone's safety than they evidently were); you'll need to factor in gender roles and aspects of communication, male and female fantasies around sex and especially societally upheld views by both sexes on heteronormative expectations of males to chase and initiative romantic encounters, the stereotype of the powerful animalistic man or the similar expectations dominate partners in non-heteronormative relationships can find themselves expected to perform to.  These all impact into what actually happens in the real world it's not simply down to people not knowing what consent means - ha! "in my opinion" I should say lest I fall foul of my own subjective biases ; )

Harry Badger

Quote from: TrenterPercenter on January 09, 2022, 08:30:11 AMthe decline in adolescent masturbation

George Orwell ordered to rewrite column.

Dr Rock

Quotethe decline in adolescent masturbation

Pre-internet, how many wanks were because there wasn't anything else to do and you were bored? Half? Today's kids can just about fit a wank in between watching skateboards stunts go wrong on YouTube or listening to Cumtown or making dank memes.

TrenterPercenter


TrenterPercenter

January 11, 2022, 11:41:10 AM #124 Last Edit: January 11, 2022, 12:02:35 PM by TrenterPercenter
Quote from: Dr Rock on January 11, 2022, 11:32:17 AMPre-internet, how many wanks were because there wasn't anything else to do and you were bored? Half? Today's kids can just about fit a wank in between watching skateboards stunts go wrong on YouTube or listening to Cumtown or making dank memes.

Yes I'm interested in the wanking stats too - I imagine it is question like

"How many times do you masturbate a week?"  which might not pick up answers like "once but in one 72 hour Stingesque tantaric edging marathon session whilst watching non-stop furry porn and having Monster Energy drink delivered intravenously into my kidneys"


flotemysost

Trenter, thanks for the detailed reply - I don't have any academic or professional experience in clinical/social work so you're inevitably way better versed in the theory and industry protocols around this stuff than I am! Anything else I say on the subject is going to be significantly subjective, so I'll leave it at that, but just to say that I particularly agree with this bit (this is actually more or less what I was getting at in my previous post, but maybe I didn't phrase it very clearly):

Quote from: TrenterPercenter on January 11, 2022, 11:14:07 AMPerhaps what is needed is a more frank and honest conversation about how consent works in reality, how some people do find being asked unambiguously a turn off (something I've experienced quite few times myself - i.e. with me being more concerned about someone's safety than they evidently were); you'll need to factor in gender roles and aspects of communication, male and female fantasies around sex and especially societally upheld views by both sexes on heteronormative expectations of males to chase and initiative romantic encounters, the stereotype of the powerful animalistic man or the similar expectations dominate partners in non-heteronormative relationships can find themselves expected to perform to.  These all impact into what actually happens in the real world it's not simply down to people not knowing what consent means - ha! "in my opinion" I should say lest I fall foul of my own subjective biases ; )

racecar bed indy 500

Quote from: imitationleather on December 28, 2021, 07:18:27 PMWhich liar voted for "loads"?

saw this post and voted for loads despite it being a lie, just because its funny.

jfjnpxmy

A four-week course of tolfonate cream and some hydrocortisone seems to have sorted out my wounded nethers. Thank you for your concern, chaps and chappettes.

imitationleather

Quote from: racecar bed indy 500 on January 15, 2022, 01:57:40 PMsaw this post and voted for loads despite it being a lie, just because its funny.