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Life of Oharu, Mizoguchi (1952) KJ film watch

Started by Smeraldina Rima, December 29, 2021, 10:04:14 AM

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Kinema Junpo film watch

A thread for discussion of Life of Oharu. We're aiming to watch the top twelve of the KJ 1999 critics' list through 2022 as shown below.

1. The Seven Samurai (1954) (Dec)
2. Floating Clouds (1955) (Nov)
3. Straits of Hunger (1965) (Oct)
4. Tokyo Story (1953) (Sep)
5. The Sun Legend of the End of the Tokugawa Era (1957) (Aug)
6. Rashomon (1950) (Jul)
7. Intentions of Murder (1964) (Jun)
8. The Yakuza Papers, Vol. 1: Battles Without Honor and Humanity (1973) (May)
9. Twenty-Four Eyes (1954) (Apr)
10. Ugetsu (1953) (Mar)
11. Ikiru (1952) (Feb)
12. Life of Oharu (1952) (Jan)

In the 2009 critics' list and readers' list it was voted the fortieth best film.

In the 1952 KJ year-end list, it was voted the ninth best film of the year.

1. Ikiru (1952)
2. Lightning (1952)
3. Honjitsu Kyushin (1952)
4. Gendai-Jin (1952)
5. Carmen Falls In Love (1952)
6. Vacuum Zone (1952)
7. Mother (1952)
8. Yamabiko gakko (1952)
9. Life of Oharu (1952)
10. Dokoku (1952)

There are different running times listed online. The Artificial Eye - Region 2- PAL: 2:10:36 (4% PAL Speedup); Criterion Collection - Spine # 664  - Region 'A' - Blu-ray: 2:16:52.871; but also an eleven minute longer running time of 148 minutes listed in a few places. The 137 minute version is on archive.org. Can anyone clarify whether/why/where there is a longer 148 minute version?

I'll try to watch it in the next few days. Looking forward to reading your posts.

Will open a thread for Ikiru at the beginning of February or end of January.

Herbert Ashe

#1
Great, looking forward to this.

IMDB lists 148 but letterboxd has 136, so if it's not the PAL thing then I expect that's a typical IMDB error from years ago that's never been corrected; either a typo or taken from an older, erroneous source, or just plain laziness. Certainly not aware of a different cut existing.


Incidentally for added context:

on the 2012 Sight & Sound Poll Oharu was 220nd, by my counting the 12th highest Japanese film.
on the current they shoot pictures aggregate, it's 260th, the 11th Japanese entry I think; although on the readers poll it's down at 1199(?!)

zomgmouse

Criterion has 136 as well so I reckon that's a good benchmark!

Herbert Ashe

Right, getting the ball rolling with some scattered observations.


Pre-watch preconceptions, prejudices, etc:

Seen it once. I've struggled to really mesh with many Mizoguchi films, and I often admire them at arm's length more than like them (and I always want to like them); this is one of the ones I did get on with though.

Some images that struck me:

A very beautiful scene, which seems to display Mizoguchi's genius with the camera down in the river and the unobvious progression, the camera movement revealing the outcasts heading along the river; also a striking pair of trees, again the second revealed to use by camera movement.



Culmination of incredible, bustling long take.



Great example of how Mizoguchi knew how to cut and gain a tempo as well:



And just after (briefly disguising a 9 month or so jump) I enjoyed this introduction to the next scene, a few seconds giving no indication of context, before reveals:



Big 1945 vibes here:



Reservations:

As with e.g. Sancho the Bailiff, and other suffering women Japanese films - if not quite misery porn, the tendency to be a litany of degradation and humiliation can feel mechanical and contrived; I can understand this being an obstacle. but it's Mizoguchi so even the relentless oppressiveness of human society can at least give us a few images back. So I wonder if a key to getting into Oharu is not to get hung up on it as a 'realistic' film - the way that the counterfeiter and the fan-maker are disposed of are such contrived slaps in the face for Oharu it's kinda funny.

Having thought about for for a bit, next time around I'd like to try to watch it with more of an eye for the materialist aspect, which I only really thought of in relation to the woman-buying scene in the 2nd shot above but I'm sure is much more prevalent throughout (already thought of a few more examples). This time I was a bit too OnePerfectShot, and thinking about movements.

Where I'd place it among Japanese films:

High, as one of Mizoguchi's best, and the KJ ranking is pretty justifiable to me, but it's the whole admire/love thing for me, Clive. Probably be around the 25-30 position.

Crenners

I've started this (I'm a chunk watching heathen) and loved the photography so far. Will look forward to finishing it this weekend (14-hr days this week) and reading and sharing some thoughts. Great choice though based on the first 40 minutes.

greenman

#5
Quote from: Herbert Ashe on January 05, 2022, 02:18:28 PMAs with e.g. Sancho the Bailiff, and other suffering women Japanese films - if not quite misery porn, the tendency to be a litany of degradation and humiliation can feel mechanical and contrived

I feel that really his greatest strength as a director is being able to across feelings like "misery" without it coming across as melodramatic. With Oharu re watching it I still think by far the strongest part of the film is the last 30-40 mins when it switches into more of that mode, long atmospheric scenes and more subtle performances.

The sections prior to that do I think feel a bit more contrived, morally justified perhaps but it does feel like a series of sexists scenarios were the lead character is put though the mill by a never ending shower of bastards and doesnt really do much but proclaim that it shouldn't be so in a quite on the nose way. I do feel like this leaves much less room for using atmosphere as well, some nice long fluid takes but I don't think they count for as much. Mizoguchi does I think do quite a good line in buffonish men that adds some character but its latter in the film were I think his real strengths emerge. Even the lead character herself I think becomes more interesting as like the other prostitutes she develops a bit of a dry sense of humor and a certain dignity which makes the continued indignities she's put though more effecting.

You could argue I spose that some more conventional buildup is needed for the style of the latter part of the film to work but I would say the likes of Ugetsu, Sancho and his earlier work like Story of the Last Chrysanthemum have a better balance to them for me.

I do wonder whether Mizoguchi's rep diminishing over the decades relative to someone like Ozu maybe because his strenght is focused more on atmosphere, Oharu offers more direct social commentary than a lot of his work but its arguably harder to write at lenght about his social/political importance than it is Ozu's who deals in more more detailed specifics and characters. Maybe also that his direct influence has diminished since the 60's? he's Charlie Parker to Tarkovskys John Coltrane, more an indirect influence as the more modern artists who drew on his work and is now looked to more as an influence by artists since.

zomgmouse

Just watched this - my very first Mizoguchi. I thought there was some wonderfully striking imagery overall - the temple was quite moving, as was much of the nighttime wandering. Filmed strikingly, some deft camerawork e.g. the aforementioned "buying" scene and also the counterfeiter's arrest. The music really added to it all for me. Agree with greenman, it really elevated to a new game in the final segment post-flashback, certainly bumped it up half a star I think, all that stuff with the grown son and all in particular. So moody! 4.5/5.

greenman

Quote from: zomgmouse on January 07, 2022, 06:41:50 AMJust watched this - my very first Mizoguchi. I thought there was some wonderfully striking imagery overall - the temple was quite moving, as was much of the nighttime wandering. Filmed strikingly, some deft camerawork e.g. the aforementioned "buying" scene and also the counterfeiter's arrest. The music really added to it all for me. Agree with greenman, it really elevated to a new game in the final segment post-flashback, certainly bumped it up half a star I think, all that stuff with the grown son and all in particular. So moody! 4.5/5.

Again I would say that latter section is arguably more reflective of his style, or at least the style of his best regarded work. I do tend to think theres a case that he was one of the main bridges between silent film and more atmospheric modern arty cinema, someone who's career ran across both but kept more of the focus on atmosphere and physical performance into the sound era.

zomgmouse

Quote from: greenman on January 07, 2022, 08:27:34 AMAgain I would say that latter section is arguably more reflective of his style, or at least the style of his best regarded work. I do tend to think theres a case that he was one of the main bridges between silent film and more atmospheric modern arty cinema, someone who's career ran across both but kept more of the focus on atmosphere and physical performance into the sound era.


that's interesting - I'm definitely keen to check out more, glad there's another one on this monthly watch

Herbert Ashe

Quote from: greenman on January 06, 2022, 05:23:42 AMsome nice long fluid takes but I don't think they count for as much

See, I think they do: often they will open up the scene, reveal new information and add context, and I think this might tie in with a possible materialist analysis. I was fascinated by the shot of Oharu's dancing lesson, which then slowly situated it in the context of, I don't know, something like a park? Some sort of social space anyhow.

Likewise the shot of the guy inspecting the women; even if we expect how it will end (or maybe more so) the momentum builds, along with the exasperation and stress on the guy (both in-film and maybe for the actor), far more than it would with, say, a few different camera set-ups and cuts; obviously this also emphasises more the dehumanisation and commodification.

QuoteI do wonder whether Mizoguchi's rep diminishing over the decades relative to someone like Ozu...

My feeling is this is mostly tied up in issues of distribution, access, fashion, and so on but I'll hold off here to not stray off-topic.


Quote from: zomgmouse on January 07, 2022, 06:41:50 AMThe music really added to it all for me.

Absolutely. Sensational score, applied just at the right times with the right intensity.

greenman

Quote from: Herbert Ashe on January 07, 2022, 10:03:24 AMSee, I think they do: often they will open up the scene, reveal new information and add context, and I think this might tie in with a possible materialist analysis. I was fascinated by the shot of Oharu's dancing lesson, which then slowly situated it in the context of, I don't know, something like a park? Some sort of social space anyhow.

Likewise the shot of the guy inspecting the women; even if we expect how it will end (or maybe more so) the momentum builds, along with the exasperation and stress on the guy (both in-film and maybe for the actor), far more than it would with, say, a few different camera set-ups and cuts; obviously this also emphasises more the dehumanisation and commodification.

I would say the long takes certainly do work as there intended to across the film but that they become more central to the film in its latter stages.

Really when I think of Mizoguchi I tend to think of the long lingering takes being used in scenes that are not really so focused on the details of plot/dialog, scenes that look to get across sadness or mystery.

This is rather relative though, picking and choosing between films all of which I rate very highly.

QuoteMy feeling is this is mostly tied up in issues of distribution, access, fashion, and so on but I'll hold off here to not stray off-topic.

Yes I'm guessing distribution doesn't help, they've never really been that easy to watch, even today your having to pay quite a significant premium to get them on disk or sign up to stream them from Criterion.

Again though I would say one factor maybe that Mizoguchi has become more of an indirect influence as someone like Tarkovsky who inherited a lot of similar techniques in terms of long atmospheric takes has become the direct influence.

After watching the film, I read a good article which translates Tadao Sato's afterword to the Japanese translation of Michel Mesnil's 1965 book on Mizuguchi, where Sato argues that the picture of Japanese critics having neglected a genius before the French appreciation through the 1950s is an exaggeration. 



In this afterword, Sato includes quotations from his own appreciation of Life of Oharu.






Found it interesting that in advocating for Mizoguchi's modernism or genius within a traditional style of 'fixation' (showing a Buddhist conception of change), Sato compared the camera work to calligraphic strokes, a few years after Alexandre Astruc described the expressive Caméra-stylo of future cinema in 1948.



The scene that Sato originally discussed after this execution scene is one that Herbert Ashe described:

Quote from: Herbert Ashe on January 05, 2022, 02:18:28 PMA very beautiful scene, which seems to display Mizoguchi's genius with the camera down in the river and the unobvious progression, the camera movement revealing the outcasts heading along the river; also a striking pair of trees, again the second revealed to use by camera movement.





Another thing I like about this shot is that the camera moves to its new position at the same time as the family on the bridge rush forward seemingly for a better view, in sympathy with them or following them. There is quite a jumpy cut on the way to the second phase of this long take, which suggests that getting both phases' images right was more important than a pure single take transition or even the illusion of one.

The shot made me think of one long take in Ugetsu which moves from the hot springs to the picnic, where the new phase is more extremely different and I assume also required a cut, but there it's better disguised and easier to disguise since there aren't other people shown during the transition.

This scene gave me a small impression of a continuity in Mizoguchi's intentions/progression comparing this transition and the more ambitious transitions in Ugetsu, where I was previously inclined to look more appreciatively to Miyagawa and perhaps underappreciate the director.

That passage is introduced as being 'later' (than the execution scene discussed) when in the version we've watched it comes before the execution scene. Might be an error by Sato or in translation but it made me wonder again about the possibility of a different original cut really existing, one in which those two scenes might be in a different order.

Quote from: Herbert Ashe on January 05, 2022, 02:18:28 PMAs with e.g. Sancho the Bailiff, and other suffering women Japanese films - if not quite misery porn, the tendency to be a litany of degradation and humiliation can feel mechanical and contrived; I can understand this being an obstacle. but it's Mizoguchi so even the relentless oppressiveness of human society can at least give us a few images back. So I wonder if a key to getting into Oharu is not to get hung up on it as a 'realistic' film - the way that the counterfeiter and the fan-maker are disposed of are such contrived slaps in the face for Oharu it's kinda funny.

I started reading the short novel that its based on having read that the film takes its comic scenes and turns them into a tragedy with different social commentary. I agree that there are some funny moments in the film too (perhaps coming from the quick episodic style). It's difficult to get a good impression of the tone of the book having to read in translation and a lot of the scenes aren't used in the film. Here is one passage that is used and changed in the film, with some things less explicit and the comment from the household coming also from Oharu's father.



Quote from: Herbert Ashe on January 05, 2022, 02:18:28 PMHaving thought about for for a bit, next time around I'd like to try to watch it with more of an eye for the materialist aspect, which I only really thought of in relation to the woman-buying scene in the 2nd shot above but I'm sure is much more prevalent throughout (already thought of a few more examples).

I'd like to read about these examples when you rewatch it, appreciating that you already started a bit with the dancing lesson. Also interested in the discussion with greenman about Mizoguchi's reputations and wouldn't worry about drifting off topic in that direction.

I found the hair episode the most moving part of the film.

The actress who plays Owasu, Sadako Sawamura, is very good at convenying fear and shame. When she shakes having covered her scalp and afterwards, the movements of her covering and then hair poking out in front emphasise her own shaking, although not in these still images which I guess are just to jog your memory.




There seemed to be a few deliberately animalistic images in a series of accidental disguises and shadow play.

The silhouette of the cat makes it look monstrous and the hair in its mouth briefly looks like another thick leg of a bear.



This happens against the same patterned board that had Owasu's hair poking out in front of it earlier. Her hair also looks similar to this black shadow creature when it's in disarray:



There's also the scene in between with Oharu in her coverings spinning around and arching her body a bit like a big bear:



Owasu casting her own animal like shadow on the wall when she chases Oharu while covering up:



And then being hunted and captured by her husband:




At the end of this, there's a strange shot of I think a boy running after her ahead of the staring crowd, which slightly recalls the family running ahead on the bridge to see Oharu and her parents:



The images have a startling effect and they seem to highlight the women's fears of becoming monstrous without their hair - counterpointed ironically with the male chonmage grooming scenes - and also how the fears then bring out another side of both women, making them cruel to each other, through humiliation, jealousy and spite. I found that these unusual scenes in the film with both women behaving cruelly to one another and with a stranger set of images helped to stop too many things from washing over me without much feeling. I felt more sympathy for both the characters once they were drawn into this.

In this hair loss episode, there's also a threatening scene which mirrors the later scene where Oharu is raped. The men look downshot/upshot at Oharu who is out of the shot and turn to the opposite sides to check nobody is around.






The man in the hair episode says: 'I'll bet you had some fun times, eh. One would never guess just looking at your face. But you really liked doing those dirty things, didn't you. That's how you twisted Lord Matsudaira around your little finger.' Then Oharu says 'I did no such thing' and moves away behind the wall out of shot.

This emphasises the main (?) difference between the film and the comic novel, 'Tales of an Amorous Woman'. In the previous post I copied in some of the contrasting text from the novel where the narrating amorous woman is disappointed with a young lord's impotence and laments all men who lack an appetite for love, while in the film she doesn't have anything like this interest in the older lord, both because of her commitment to Katsunosuke and their ethics of love and because of the more critical understanding of a relationship between Oharu and a co-ercive lord. In addition, in the film Lord Matsudaira fathered a child with her and the child is her great concern. There's a similar difference at the end of the hair loss episode in the novel, where the amorous woman does want a sexual relationship with her master and she ends by saying that she made him her creature. In the film, by contrast, the master not only threatens and repulses her, but also tells a false version of Oharu's rumoured history with Lord Matsudaira which she denies and which is closer to the idea of the amorous woman in the novel and to what the chief retainers think happened in that particular episode.



zomgmouse

this is all so great @Smeraldina Rima!

I'm particularly captured by this comparison between Mizoguchi's camera movement and the strokes of a calligraphy brush. Indeed I wouldn't at all have conceptualised him as a still-camera filmmaker - that tends to be associated more with Ozu, I would hazard.


greenman

I would say that the long flowing take style of his work really peaked before WW2, stuff like Osaka Elegy and Story of the Last Chrysanthemum play very strongly towards it.

The famous trilogy of period films in the 50's do I think end up being a bit more of a mix of styles and  Sancho the Baliff does actually use a lot of fixed shots, albeit not as geometric as Ozu with the actors moving around the frame a lot more.


Herbert Ashe

Great posts, Smeraldina. Appreciate the details from the novel, which I'm unfamiliar with. Also I'd forgotten about that little cut in the bridge scene until you mentioned it, which supports your point about the two phases; paradoxically, maybe it's 'smoother' with the cut (quickly forgotten, at least by me, with the perfection of what follows). Also interested to watch the hair scene again in light of your observations above.

Quote from: Smeraldina Rima on January 07, 2022, 12:40:29 PMI'd like to read about these examples when you rewatch it, appreciating that you already started a bit with the dancing lesson. Also interested in the discussion with greenman about Mizoguchi's reputations and wouldn't worry about drifting off topic in that direction.

I did start a post on the latter but it became a bit of a nonsense mess so I binned it off for a bit.

Small Man Big Horse

There's some really fantastic posts here making lot of a fascinating insights, and I plan to respond to some of them over the course of the week, but here's my slightly rushed initial thoughts about the film:

The Life Of Oharu (1952) - Oharu is born in to a society where men use and abuse her, with her interacting with a number of varying status and power, though the worst of all is her Father who clearly only cares about his own wellbeing and not an iota for his daughter. Oharu's a very submissive / passive figure most of the time (though not always, as when she initially falls her soon to be very ex-lover, during the brothel scene where she tries to reject the client with counterfeit money, and teaches a cat how to steal hair), though I suppose that's the whole point, that women had to act that way and if they didn't abject misery would follow. It's a film I found interesting, and it's an insight in to a period of time which shows quite powerfully how terribly women were treated by pretty much all men, but at the same time but I struggle with cinema that largely only displays suffering and even though the message is an important one it's not a film I'd ever choose to revisit. 6.8/10

The latter part of the review (and the rating) definitely reflects my own mental health issues and how I respond to such material, and I think it's a much better film than the rating suggests. I'll try and expand upon that though, and write more about the way it was shot, because as mentioned above, I agree that the long takes really do make a difference to how I reacted to it, and it definitely never felt melodramatic when in lesser hands it could have done.

Ant Farm Keyboard

The film works even better as a double programme with Lola Montès.

zomgmouse

just popped into my head how tragic it is she never forgets that man she loved at the start, each time she recalls him you sort of think "oh so she's never let go this whole time..."

Herbert Ashe

Re: materialism.

Watching it with this in mind, is somewhat rewarding, but with the caveat that I'm unsure to what extent it has strong political conclusions. Yes, Oharu is trapped in the feudal system, but this aspects seems to recede as she gets further away from the society she was born into, and approaches a spiritual (buddhist) shedding of worldy attachments (her last was her son, beyond reach); so the feeling is more of resignation than anger or some other stronger attitude.

There is little focus on objects (contra Naruse, the most obvious materialist in 50s Japanese cinema) but people (well, women, and mostly Oharu).

Data points:
- Sleeping with a man without the consent of her parents
- Retainer grabs Oharu from dancing lesson without a word/gesture to anyone else
- "Oharu, you've redeemed yourself, all is forgiven" - obviously she did nothing except be in the right palce
- Doctor's examination and "Been allowed to give birth"
- The hair
- Decreasing value: from 100ryu and expenses (enough value for her to be collateral) to 5 ryu; then essentially pawned out, and the irony of  'buying freedom' - transference of ownership. Finally, for the pilgrims, her minimal value is at the level of a prop, not a woman; "goblin cat in human form". Without any more monetary value or possessions, Oharu enters the spiritual realm.

Further to spiritual aspects: this shot stood out, which is the only one of it's sort I noticed, with it's decentring of the humans; Mizoguchi too careful a director to not have it deliberately, and not sure it's his thing to do stuff 'just because', and while Yoshida was doing this in a more extreme way 10 or 20 years later, I don't remember it being part of the Japanese cinematic landscape earlier in any significant way.



I don't know the signifance of this - is it a Shinto or a Buddhist garden shrine? - but the camera very deliberately tilts down:



...and we see a similar shrine (? I assume again) when oharu has learnt of his death, and is suicidal:




PS: There is a well-timed screening of Ugetsu at the Prince Charles Cinema in the middle of March (an early evening, midweek I think)


zomgmouse

her existence inside a feudal system seems important but to me not quite as important as her existence within a patriarchal one (of course one informs the other etc)

greenman

Before this really most of Mizoguchi's feminist work had tended to be much more modern, either contemporary or at least post feudal so I'd agree its probably not just looking to be specifically critical of womans position in a feudal system

The Buddhist conversion at the end is interesting in that I wouldn't say its really shown to be a positive thing, it feels more like the character has become some kind of ghost(metaphorically anyway if not literally as with Ugetsu) and plays up the sadness of her being pushed so far as to reject all connection to the world.

Quote from: Herbert Ashe on January 19, 2022, 01:33:52 PMRe: materialism.

Watching it with this in mind, is somewhat rewarding, but with the caveat that I'm unsure to what extent it has strong political conclusions. Yes, Oharu is trapped in the feudal system, but this aspects seems to recede as she gets further away from the society she was born into, and approaches a spiritual (buddhist) shedding of worldy attachments (her last was her son, beyond reach); so the feeling is more of resignation than anger or some other stronger attitude.

There is little focus on objects (contra Naruse, the most obvious materialist in 50s Japanese cinema) but people (well, women, and mostly Oharu).

Data points:
- Sleeping with a man without the consent of her parents
- Retainer grabs Oharu from dancing lesson without a word/gesture to anyone else
- "Oharu, you've redeemed yourself, all is forgiven" - obviously she did nothing except be in the right palce
- Doctor's examination and "Been allowed to give birth"
- The hair
- Decreasing value: from 100ryu and expenses (enough value for her to be collateral) to 5 ryu; then essentially pawned out, and the irony of  'buying freedom' - transference of ownership. Finally, for the pilgrims, her minimal value is at the level of a prop, not a woman; "goblin cat in human form". Without any more monetary value or possessions, Oharu enters the spiritual realm.

Further to spiritual aspects: this shot stood out, which is the only one of it's sort I noticed, with it's decentring of the humans; Mizoguchi too careful a director to not have it deliberately, and not sure it's his thing to do stuff 'just because', and while Yoshida was doing this in a more extreme way 10 or 20 years later, I don't remember it being part of the Japanese cinematic landscape earlier in any significant way.



I don't know the signifance of this - is it a Shinto or a Buddhist garden shrine? - but the camera very deliberately tilts down:



...and we see a similar shrine (? I assume again) when oharu has learnt of his death, and is suicidal:



Haven't seen a Naruse or Yoshida film yet. Floating Clouds is coming up in this list but I don't think there is a Yoshida film in either KJ list. Can you recommend one with extreme decentring of the humans?

I think the objects are these funereal five ringed pagodas, Gorintō:



They also appear in Ugetsu.



After you mentioned them I noticed similar shapes on the mantlepiece and of a lit up building in Osaka Elegy:




The wiki page mentions that the earth stone at the bottom also symbolises striving for perfection. I initially thought they were these similar lanterns - with hidden lightboxes - which were originally offered as a sacrifice and then became popular in gardens in the 16th century:



Wonder if the lightbox is deliberately in the fire position of the similar pagodas or if it's a coincidence.

Don't know if the tilting camera is meant to draw attention to the big one or the two together at the bottom, or to the earth stone or all five stones. My best guess apart from associating their actions with Buddhism is the funereal object foreshadowing death and possibly death-to-life along with a sombre lowering head gesture. Could be a sacrificial suggestion too.

I read in Kyoko Hirano's book Mr. Smith Goes to Tokyo: Japanese Cinema Under the American Occupation, 1945-52 that 'contempt of life' and 'approving suicide directly or indirectly' were among prohibited subjects at the beginning of the allied occupation, along with other things associated with feudalism and militarism. Life of Oharu being released in 1952 wasn't subject to these strict restrictions (that would have prevented it being released I think) and in general feudal historical films seemingly went from being banned as continuators of feudal ethics to being convenient critical allegories, but it carries on in a liberal humanist tradition. The scene where Oharu runs with the knife and wants to commit suicide and be with Katsunosuke but is stopped by her mother and told it's not the end - but that if she dies it is the end - stands out quite ambiguously in that light. Then near the end of the film one of the two women who bring Oharu in says 'life would be easier if we could end it... but we can't'. There are similar things in Tess of the d'Urbervilles including denial of suicide and a pagan resignation scene at Stone Henge.

QuotePS: There is a well-timed screening of Ugetsu at the Prince Charles Cinema in the middle of March (an early evening, midweek I think)

I went to see Drunken Angel and Walker's on Tiger's Tale double bill at the Prince Charles Cinema as part of a Kurosawa season. Drunken Angel has a nightmare scene similar to the coffin nightmare scene in Dreyer's Vampyr. I loved the music and multiple endings of Drunken Angel and thought it could have ended after showing the doctor in the street for maximum pathos, but it would have lost a lot afterwards.


Watching the ending again I was wondering about the timeline. Read something saying that the boy in the palanquin might not be Oharu's son because she already looks old there and shortly sees him much more grown up - the silence suggesting its a subjective view - but watching it again I think there is meant to be a big real gap between the two times when she sees him but am still a bit confused about the sequence, Oharu's ages and the years between the last few scenes and when we join up with the present time: most of the film aged about twenty - palanquin - goblin cat - hears news and goes to her son - wandering in exile. The frantic running around back and fourth crossing each other in the courtyard with the music at the end trying to stop and then find Oharu reminded me of Quad.

I watched Kaneto Shindo's Mizoguchi documentary.

It starts with a brief history of the Japanese film industry from when he began working then goes through Mizoguchi's career interviewing his colleagues about the films and his personality. At the beginning there's an interview clip from 1950 where Miz says that he started to make films about women because Minoru Morata made films about men and the studio needed something to distinguish his own films, but then it became more important to him as he went along. It indicates a few discrete periods: left wing 'tendency films', militarist films, women's liberation films, liberal allegorical historical films popular in Europe and America and the later modern films, leaving you to work out when his heart was in the films. There are lots of stories about him being lost and needing a lift from a new idea at various points in his career. And anecdotes about him being demanding with actors and appreciative in the end. Isuzu Yamada remembers that he wasn't satisfied with her delivery of the line, 'Oh, sukiyaki, I'd like some too', in Osaka Elegy and rehearsed it over and over for three days (it is an important bit at the end of the film I realised when watching it afterwards).

Here are some pages from Kyoko Hirano's book Mr. Smith Goes to Tokyo: Japanese Cinema Under the American Occupation, 1945-52:





About Mizoguchi's 'Women's Liberation Films':





I only found a limited view version of this to read by searching key words and it doesn't cover the post-occupation period more relevant to later films continuing in a similar direction like Oharu, Sansho (which apparently changed with studio input against Mizoguchi's wishes) and Ugetsu (originally not intended as such an anti-war film). I'd like to know a bit more about the censorship turning against communist themes since in some ways they seem to have been encouraged at the beginning of the occupation, after having been more troubling for censors in Japan between the 1930s and the start of the war. The book mentions that Osaka Elegy (1936) required a defensive meeting with censors worried about its left wing message, similar to earlier 'tendency films'. Then screenings of it were banned in 1940 because of its criticism of patriarchy. I think that was in a time of clamping down after the proletarian film movement that Mizoguchi had been associated with which seems to have been more easily tolerated in the late 1920s and early 1930s.

I watched the early Benshi narrated film The Water Magician (KJ number 2 film of 1933). It has another good above/below bridge scene:



Osaka Elegy also has a bit on a bridge in this sequence at the end:






Planning to watch Sisters of The Gion, which was KJ's best film of the year when Osaka Elegy came third and has a similar subject but doesn't seem to have the same visual experimentation from the images I've seen. I'd appreciate recommendations of other black and white films with a similar look and atmosphere to Osaka Elegy. Was thinking of watching Ozu's Tokyo Twilight on the bases of the title, Isuzu Yamada being in it twenty years later, and it being a dark winter set film.

Wish this early film Blood and Soul, influenced by The Cabinet of Dr Caligari had survived:




Herbert Ashe

Quote from: Smeraldina Rima on January 28, 2022, 09:57:51 AMHaven't seen a Naruse or Yoshida film yet. Floating Clouds is coming up in this list but I don't think there is a Yoshida film in either KJ list. Can you recommend one with extreme decentring of the humans?

Most notably in Eros + Massacre (1969), although I ~think~ you'd see it in most of his late 60s/early 70s to some extent (don't quote me on this though). In E+M, I don't think the decentering necessarily is intended to convey anything in and of itself; rather part of a range of stylistic technique to disrupt and get the viewer to engage critically with the events depicted.


QuoteI think the objects are these funereal five ringed pagodas, Gorintō... The wiki page mentions that the earth stone at the bottom also symbolises striving for perfection...

Don't know if the tilting camera is meant to draw attention to the big one or the two together at the bottom, or to the earth stone or all five stones. My best guess apart from associating their actions with Buddhism is the funereal object foreshadowing death and possibly death-to-life along with a sombre lowering head gesture. Could be a sacrificial suggestion too.

Interesting. It's the tilting that caught my eye - cultural artifacts such as these don't need to have significance beyond period flavour, and I didn't want to stray into exoticisation of a bit of set-decoration - but there was clearly some intention there.


QuoteI'd like to know a bit more about the censorship turning against communist themes since in some ways they seem to have been encouraged at the beginning of the occupation

My guess would be as it became clearer that the Communists would win the Chinese Civil War. Later I'll have a quick look at Bordwell's Ozu book and Catherine Russell's Naruse book in case they have any more notes on this.


Thanks. To save you possible effort, I think I now have a better understanding of the 'reverse course' (or more pertinently the initial course of promoting labour unions, pacifism and women's rights) and the changes in oversight of films that came about with the 'reverse course'.

Crenners

I've not contributed yet but very much enjoyed reading, fascinating stuff here. I will get round to it but mostly bowled over by the cinematography. Will take me some time to pick up out my favourite scenes.

Will the Ikiru thread begin soon?

sevendaughters

gonna sneak in under the wire by watching this tonight and posting tomorrow. been rushed off my feet this month.

Yeah I'll start the Ikiru thread soon. Looking forward to your and 7d's posts.

I can't get over Osaka Elegy.




There's a scene at a harbour where as the two friends leave the scene there's a surprising cut at the last moment to a slightly different view of them for a second, then it fades into flickering darkness which lasts for about ten seconds and then a light comes on but it's hard to tell if it's in the same or a third place that's been lit up.






Then thinking about small camera movements at the end of the scenes, he sometimes makes me see the camera as not exactly like a stalker but as something sensitively following characters' stillness and sudden movements and at the end of the scenes showing some reaction or staying in an empty place here.






Herbert Ashe

Quote from: Smeraldina Rima on January 30, 2022, 10:05:39 AMThanks. To save you possible effort, I think I now have a better understanding of the 'reverse course' (or more pertinently the initial course of promoting labour unions, pacifism and women's rights) and the changes in oversight of films that came about with the 'reverse course'.

Had a look but seems like the Kyoko Hirano book is Russell's major source anyway (so presumably the go-to English text on the subject ). You'll be aware of this but just for anyone else reading):

Quote...(the occupation government's) policies were inconsistent and shifted quite dramatically over the course of the seven-year occupation, from a socialist-orientated notion of democracy, to a fully cold war implementation of bourgeois capitalism.

...and she notes the General Strike banned by MacArthur in 1947 (that hoped to promote the reverse course you mentioned). Also it reminded me of the Toho Studio labour unrest and strike in 1948; another contextual point.


Quote from: greenman on January 20, 2022, 02:45:07 AMThe Buddhist conversion at the end is interesting in that I wouldn't say its really shown to be a positive thing, it feels more like the character has become some kind of ghost(metaphorically anyway if not literally as with Ugetsu) and plays up the sadness of her being pushed so far as to reject all connection to the world.

Sorry, I meant to reply before; yeah, there's definitely that ghost-vibe going on with those last shots.