Rob Newman: anyone else here a fan of his post 2000 work & career arc?

[tribalfusion]

Maybe he was researching them for a 'bit' or a book? He's never commented on it either way, so jumping to conclusions doesn't help anyone.
Following someone on social media doesn't mean you agree with them. A lot of us are all over BC on numerous platforms, for example - sometimes under several names.

Of course. It's incredible that this even needs to be said and that no one has even tried to find any actual, you know, quotes or actions from the guy. Just a 'Twitter follow'

Well, at least I DID get some laughs out of the forum today.

[tribalfusion]

Why is this easier for you to believe than him following TERF accounts is due to him being, at the very least, sympathetic to their position? Yes, granted, he hasn't said anything about trans issues publicly but in lieu of him clarifying his position, the evidence ain't great.

The 'evidence' isn't great. When you wrote 'evidence' and in your brain it registered that 'evidence' was following a few accounts on Twitter without recommending them or anything they said while also following plenty of progressive and left-wing accounts (and having a history of actually recommending those and echoing what they say) did that really seem like 'evidence'?

[Dr Rock]

Having known Rob back in in the 90s, and us both being adopted and talked about 'identities' I find it very hard to believe he would ever be a terf.

[Bigfella]

A quick way to solve it: is he on either of Stewart Lee's now infamous lists?

[The Giggling Bean]

I got to interview him many years ago, 
Favourite comedy bit of his: talking about Richard Burton being banned by the BBC for critical comments about Churchill and doing a spot on impression of the man being unable to make love to Elizabeth Taylor due to rage at being denied his rightful role on Hi-de-Hi by that "scab bastard Paul Shane".

That's made me laugh out loud just reading it

[mippy]

Lesbianandgaynews is a terf account, fyi. Set up by LGB Alliance.

[KennyMonster]

Yeah, following some suspect people on twitter without showing that you're anyway in agreement is not in anyway showing support.
I genuinely think it could be research, he does research into his shows and programmes.

I've enjoyed all of his recent Radio4 shows, ones on philosophy, neuroscience, evolution, they've all had a refreshingly different perspective compared to the other centrist dross you get.

His History of Oil stuff was great, but I'd suggest the audio version - Apocalypso Now is better, its a more extensive version of History of Oil.

I also really like his History Of The World Backwards TV series,
I don't agree with the comments on page 1 that it was a rip off Time Trumpet.

Time Trumpet was about predicting current affairs and celebrity culture in the near future.

History Of The World Backwards took the subject discussed at the end of History of Oil, societal collapse and explored it using history's timeline travelling in reverse as its metaphor, a totally different concept.

[KennyMonster]

Lesbianandgaynews is a terf account, fyi. Set up by LGB Alliance.

Maybe, but following doesn't mean he agrees.

I watched the dreadful TV doc about Fred West, am I a serial killer?
Do I agree with serial killers?

[j_u_d_a_s]

Of course. It's incredible that this even needs to be said and that no one has even tried to find any actual, you know, quotes or actions from the guy. Just a 'Twitter follow'

Several Twitter follows. Of accounts who post misinformation and scare mongering about trans folks almost exclusively.

The 'evidence' isn't great. When you wrote 'evidence' and in your brain it registered that 'evidence' was following a few accounts on Twitter without recommending them or anything they said while also following plenty of progressive and left-wing accounts (and having a history of actually recommending those and echoing what they say) did that really seem like 'evidence'?

It's not like left/progressive spaces aren't susceptible to transphobia for one thing. Andrew Doyle and BC were pretty left leaning until transphobia took over their entire brain. Well aware of Newman's politics too having seen him many times over the years, he was a big influence on my own worldview which is why I'm immediately suspicious of him following a group of TERF/GC aligned accounts. What's the reason to follow them? If it's "research" then what's the end goal of that research? As far as I can see, there's no mention of any upcoming book or show dealing with trans issues. Maybe there will be something announced this year and I'll happily admit I was wrong but until that happens, I'm erring on the side of caution.

Transphobia isn't just the screeching rage of a divorced Irish ex-comedy writer. It's an insidious belief that they're "different" from "normal" women, and a threat. A key word in the TERF acronym is feminism and a large part of why it's gained so much support over the last few years is by recruiting well meaning  folks who wouldn't say they hate trans folk but want to protect women's rights. It's the same sleight of hand trick that groups like EDL and Britain First use whenever they're accused of racism. Heck, do you think the way the right has embraced the mantra of "freedom of speech" really means they're dedicated to freedom of speech? (on a related tangent, here's Tony Law convincing himself that Jordan Peterson isn't bad actually)

As has been pointed out, you've listed a supposedly progressive account 'Lesbianandgaynews' that was set up by LGB Alliance. That's how easy it is for hate groups to cloak themselves with a veneer of respectibility.

He may not be as vocal about it as others but until I see otherwise, I'm prepared and disappointed to believe that Rob Newman is on the gender critical spectrum.

[KennyMonster]

He may not be as vocal about it as others but until I see otherwise, I'm prepared and disappointed to believe that Rob Newman is on the gender critical spectrum.

With the most weakest evidence you've assumed guilty until proven innocent.

Nice.

[DrGreggles]

Several Twitter follows. Of accounts who post misinformation and scare mongering about trans folks almost exclusively.

It's not like left/progressive spaces aren't susceptible to transphobia for one thing. Andrew Doyle and BC were pretty left leaning until transphobia took over their entire brain. Well aware of Newman's politics too having seen him many times over the years, he was a big influence on my own worldview which is why I'm immediately suspicious of him following a group of TERF/GC aligned accounts. What's the reason to follow them? If it's "research" then what's the end goal of that research? As far as I can see, there's no mention of any upcoming book or show dealing with trans issues. Maybe there will be something announced this year and I'll happily admit I was wrong but until that happens, I'm erring on the side of caution.

Transphobia isn't just the screeching rage of a divorced Irish ex-comedy writer. It's an insidious belief that they're "different" from "normal" women, and a threat. A key word in the TERF acronym is feminism and a large part of why it's gained so much support over the last few years is by recruiting well meaning  folks who wouldn't say they hate trans folk but want to protect women's rights. It's the same sleight of hand trick that groups like EDL and Britain First use whenever they're accused of racism. Heck, do you think the way the right has embraced the mantra of "freedom of speech" really means they're dedicated to freedom of speech? (on a related tangent, here's Tony Law convincing himself that Jordan Peterson isn't bad actually)

As has been pointed out, you've listed a supposedly progressive account 'Lesbianandgaynews' that was set up by LGB Alliance. That's how easy it is for hate groups to cloak themselves with a veneer of respectibility.

He may not be as vocal about it as others but until I see otherwise, I'm prepared and disappointed to believe that Rob Newman is on the gender critical spectrum.

What a load of bollocks

[j_u_d_a_s]

With the most weakest evidence you've assumed guilty until proven innocent.

Nice.

Oh get over yourself. I'm not condemning him to prison, I'm saying his beliefs are potentially misguided

[j_u_d_a_s]

Maybe, but following doesn't mean he agrees.

I watched the dreadful TV doc about Fred West, am I a serial killer?
Do I agree with serial killers?

Yes, this is definitely a grown up's way of thinking.

[earl_sleek]

If Linehan or any of his associates were making assumptions based on Twitter follows we'd be (rightly) rolling around the aisles in the other thread.

[j_u_d_a_s]

If Linehan or any of his associates were making assumptions based on Twitter follows we'd be (rightly) rolling around the aisles in the other thread.

Again, I have to ask why is this so hard to believe? A comic who follows a whole pack of explicitly transphobic accounts would, at the very least, be sympathetic to their cause right? Or are we shifting the goalposts here based on our affection for their past work?

[peanutbutter]

Think this is just tricky discourse ground, isn't it? It's def not a good look; it could be explainable, even if it isn't him managing to remain unvocal suggests he has some awareness that it's a shaky stance (like, if Tony Law can't manage to keep his mouth shut about politics and social issues what chance has Rob Newman), but mentioning it isn't outright accusing him of anything either beyond the fact his social media presence is iffy.

It's def interesting to be aware of at the very least. Maybe in a few years he'll be a massive terf and this was some forewarning; it'd honestly be quite good if someone like him briefly got quite into that stuff and managed to eventually find his way out too... the former seems way more likely to happen than the latter based on the way this shit seems to take a hold on people mind.

[Blinder Data]

j_u_d_a_s - you can assume that Rob Newman is a TERF based on his Twitter follows, if you want. You've a decent chance of being right. Still, you have no idea about his beliefs because you don't know why he has chosen to follow these accounts. I don't see the point in your trying to convince people with weak evidence.

Personally, I hate the way that the act of following people on Twitter who have views you disagree with or object to is definitely indicative of one's views. I think it's healthy to follow people you disagree with. Not every like is an endorsement. Should everyone have stopped following Donald Trump on Twitter?

Anyway, Rob Newman - no opinions, sorry.

[KennyMonster]

Oh get over yourself. I'm not condemning him to prison, I'm saying his beliefs are potentially misguided

Everyone's beliefs are potentially misguided if were basing our assumptions on stuff that doesn't exist.

You know about these accounts more than I do, so presumably you've looked them up, I haven't.

So by your logic, you're a bit TERFier than I am.

[earl_sleek]

Again, I have to ask why is this so hard to believe? A comic who follows a whole pack of explicitly transphobic accounts would, at the very least, be sympathetic to their cause right?

It's certainly one interpretation, but there are others, and in the absence of any other evidence no reason to choose that particular interpretation over another.

Or are we shifting the goalposts here based on our affection for their past work?

Nope. I'm not familiar with his work but have heard or seen his name mentioned many times over the years and read the thread thinking I might come across something that sounded interesting. That hasn't really gone according to plan.

[Barry Admin]

j_u_d_a_s - you can assume that Rob Newman is a TERF based on his Twitter follows, if you want. You've a decent chance of being right. Still, you have no idea about his beliefs because you don't know why he has chosen to follow these accounts. I don't see the point in your trying to convince people with weak evidence.

Personally, I hate the way that the act of following people on Twitter who have views you disagree with or object to is definitely indicative of one's views. I think it's healthy to follow people you disagree with. Not every like is an endorsement. Should everyone have stopped following Donald Trump on Twitter?

Completely agree with this; if I still used the site I'd probably be following all those cunts just to see what they're upto. I'd probably end up following even more if I saw someone do one of those pompous "I can't believe who my mutuals are following, this is your last chance" pronouncements. And I did explicitly make a point of following people I ideologically disagree with when I was on there so I wasn't stuck in a hugbox.

This is exactly what I meant a week or two ago when I said that Twitter deliberately pushes and encourages this kind of judgement, so that more drama and engagement is created. Shithouse platform.

[Pimhole]

Completely agree with this; if I still used the site I'd probably be following all those cunts just to see what they're upto. I'd probably end up following even more if I saw someone do one of those pompous "I can't believe who my mutuals are following, this is your last chance" pronouncements. And I did explicitly make a point of following people I ideologically disagree with when I was on there so I wasn't stuck in a hugbox.

This is exactly what I meant a week or two ago when I said that Twitter deliberately pushes and encourages this kind of judgement, so that more drama and engagement is created. Shithouse platform.

Correct, but then if you had an interest in this area you'd also be following some trans-positive trans-focussed accounts. Which Newman isn't.

I guess we'll see, won't we? When this book comes out.

[j_u_d_a_s]

j_u_d_a_s - you can assume that Rob Newman is a TERF based on his Twitter follows, if you want. You've a decent chance of being right. Still, you have no idea about his beliefs because you don't know why he has chosen to follow these accounts. I don't see the point in your trying to convince people with weak evidence.

Neither do you. I put it to you that one explanation is likelier than the other.

Personally, I hate the way that the act of following people on Twitter who have views you disagree with or object to is definitely indicative of one's views. I think it's healthy to follow people you disagree with. Not every like is an endorsement. Should everyone have stopped following Donald Trump on Twitter?

Anyway, Rob Newman - no opinions, sorry.

Really? So who do you disagree with that you follow on twitter or is this a belief you've only just discovered to back up your flimsy arguing on here? In any case, unless you've a history of supporting trans rights then it's fair to assume Rob following anti-tran campaigners without challenging them is a sign he's sympathetic to their views.

Everyone's beliefs are potentially misguided if were basing our assumptions on stuff that doesn't exist.

*Comic follows many transphobic accounts that definitely do exist* "Well that doesn't mean he's transphobic, he may well be doing research for thing that doesn't exist"

You know about these accounts more than I do, so presumably you've looked them up, I haven't.

So by your logic, you're a bit TERFier than I am.

"You've researched this topic and I haven't therefore I know more than you" - Brilliant logic there.

It's certainly one interpretation, but there are others, and in the absence of any other evidence no reason to choose that particular interpretation over another.

I'd say it's a fairly natural interpretation to reach. There's no evidence to support any other interpretation still.

Nope. I'm not familiar with his work but have heard or seen his name mentioned many times over the years and read the thread thinking I might come across something that sounded interesting. That hasn't really gone according to plan.

Right, so you jump into threads to defend people you don't know. Gotcha.

[j_u_d_a_s]

Completely agree with this; if I still used the site I'd probably be following all those cunts just to see what they're upto. I'd probably end up following even more if I saw someone do one of those pompous "I can't believe who my mutuals are following, this is your last chance" pronouncements. And I did explicitly make a point of following people I ideologically disagree with when I was on there so I wasn't stuck in a hugbox. 

But you've got a long posting history of supporting trans rights behind you which Newman doesn't. Why would anyone follow LGB Alliance, Maya Forstater et al unless they're in some way invested in the pro/anti trans discourse?

[Barry Admin]

But you've got a long posting history of supporting trans rights behind you which Newman doesn't. Why would anyone follow LGB Alliance, Maya Forstater et al unless they're in some way invested in the pro/anti trans discourse?

Pimhole makes a fair point about him apparent not following any pro-trans accounts. Anyway, he could be following just because he wants to know the arguments so he can counter them. It doesn't look great, but I have no idea why he's chosen to follow them.

[KennyMonster]

Pimhole makes a fair point about him apparent not following any pro-trans accounts. Anyway, he could be following just because he wants to know the arguments so he can counter them. It doesn't look great, but I have no idea why he's chosen to follow them.

It doesn't look great, it doesn't look bad, it doesn't look like anything right now.

We could jump to conclusions or we could wait for some facts and evidence.

[earl_sleek]

Right, so you jump into threads to defend people you don't know. Gotcha.

Cunt's going bananas

[Blinder Data]

Neither do you. I put it to you that one explanation is likelier than the other.

That's basically what I said! I don't know his views on gender, and neither do you. If I was to guess, based on his Twitter followers, personally I would say it's more likely than not that he has TERFy opinions. Still, I'm not going to throw him under the bus solely based on that.

Really? So who do you disagree with that you follow on twitter or is this a belief you've only just discovered to back up your flimsy arguing on here? In any case, unless you've a history of supporting trans rights then it's fair to assume Rob following anti-tran campaigners without challenging them is a sign he's sympathetic to their views.

I think it's odd that you think following accounts on Twitter that you don't agree with is a concept I've just made up to win an argument on the internet! Most people follow accounts that they like obviously but I thought it was normal for users to follow all sorts of accounts for different reasons, no? It doesn't mean you agree with them all - that would be impossible.

Ultimately, casting definitive judgments on people's beliefs based on whom they follow on Twitter is dangerous imo.

[bgmnts]

Considering Newman's intense anti capitalism and presumably being pretty working class and left wing politically, the idea he is a big transphobe or 'gender critical' either tells us he is a bit misguided on the issue or genuinely feels perhaps it's an issue where women need support or whatever.

Not everyone is a rabid fuck twat like Glinner. I'd imagine even some of the people who support the 'gender critical' ideas do so from a good if misguided place.

[Barry Admin]

Considering Newman's intense anti capitalism and presumably being pretty working class and left wing politically, the idea he is a big transphobe or 'gender critical' either tells us he is a bit misguided on the issue or genuinely feels perhaps it's an issue where women need support or whatever.

Not everyone is a rabid fuck twat like Glinner. I'd imagine even some of the people who support the 'gender critical' ideas do so from a good if misguided place.

That's basically true; gender critical transphobia is all deliberately positioned to appeal to people's sympathies, and if you don't look into the issue much, then it's easy to get swept up in all the hand-wringing and propaganda.

Because to go against it, you're immediately faced with questions such as: "Oh, so I guess you don't care about women's rights then? What's it like being a misogynist who absolutely hates the fuck out of women and young girls?"

[tribalfusion]

With the most weakest evidence you've assumed guilty until proven innocent.

Nice.

Exactly. An absolutely shambolic position.