Sekiro: what do you reckon?

[Barry Admin]

Old thread here. Been on a Dark Souls binge since I finally got Remastered, so wanted to try this again as it never really clicked with me, and I stopped playing pretty early on.

I've got mixed feelings about it. I really want to git gud and enjoy being a beast, and I think it looks and feels great - absolutely love Samurai settings and that sort of thing.

Stealth, though... I'm not really sure it mixes with From Software's general approach. In Dark Souls, you can boss run - just charge past the trash mobs and get straight back to the actual boss battle.

Sekiro is wearing me down now because I am not a huge fan of stealth in general, just too hyperactive to be sitting around wating for the same shit over and over again.

This is becoming an issue, as I have a mini-boss I'm almost good enough to beat, but getting back to the fight with him is a pain in the hole. I have to switch prosthetic and wrestle with the unwieldy control system - that should get easier. There are definitely different ways to traverse the map, but ultimately you still seem to end up having to fight the same trash over and over again, just so you don't end up completely overwhelmed by the boss.

[The Guppy]

I adore it. There were times when it drove me up the wall though. It took a while to realise that dodging is nearly always wrong, and a lot longer to stop myself instinctively dodging anyway. The complexity of the combat is near the limit of what my poor old brain can process.

Boss running is still viable, and the grappling hook makes it easier than ever. It's the mini-bosses that complicate matters, as they don't have fog doors. Some of them are right arseholes. There was a big twat in the Hirata Estate, Juzou the Drunkard, who almost broke me, because he has so many wee dickheads and you can't skip them.

If you find yourself at a disadvantage, it's usually worth disengaging, finding cover, and waiting for everyone to calm down.

I accepted that I'm too old to get perfect deflections, so I spam the deflect button when I think an attack is coming. This gets me a lot of "good enough" deflections. This won't work if you play on hard mode though.

[Dickie_Anders]

Sekiro is one of my favourite games. I think it's the last game I bothered to actually complete. I love how the boss fights are basically these mad dances where once you get into the rhythm of things you feel like an absolute ninja king. But it has so little room for error you're always on edge

I think the thing with its "stealth" is that you can pretty much always run about behind people and stealth kill them really quickly and get to the boss, once you've figured out the layout of the area and where everyone is. I can't really think of a time I had to wait around and look at how enemies were moving for too long

[chutnut]

Yeah sekiro is great but by the last couple of bosses it was too difficult to be fun anymore for me tbh, and definitely the closest a game has got to giving me a heart attack/stroke lol, and rsi in my index finger from all the deflecting. It's one of the only 2 games I've ever got platinum for (the other being bloodborne), but most of the times I've played it I stop when I get to

Spoiler alert

demon of hatred

[close]

.

I had the same frustration at having to clear all the goons to get back to certain mini bosses, especially the

Spoiler alert

spear cunt when you go back to the starting area

[close]

, but eventually realised you can get away with ignoring most of them, just take out a couple that are most likely to spot you. Doesn't work for the drunkard guy as mentioned above though unfortunately. Speaking of the drunkard
I didn't like how much it reused areas and bosses.

Still loved it overall though! It's got some of the most satisfying combat/boss fights ever, even though its verging on qte at points.

One thing I found helped me massively (playstation) is to swap the change prosthetic and heal buttons so you can move while healing

[Fishfinger]

But it has so little room for error you're always on edge

This. I sold Sekiro when I realised I hadn't played it for 2 weeks and had no intention of doing so, which is a first for me. Ultimately, I think it just wasn't the game I wanted or expected (Japanese-themed Bloodborne with a stealth mode). But the mechanism where you have to kill something twice, immediately after seeing its lifeblood squirt out of a severed artery, is really crap and I found it took me out of the game. Other Soulsy games have similar artifices of course, but this one just didn't click with me at all.

[Thursday]

I respect it, but the least favorite fromsoft for me. Some people actually seem to find it easier, but personally found it much harder, as Dark Souls bosses tend to have some kind of good method or can just be mitigated by levelling up, whereas for the most part in Sekiro the only option is to get good.

The game also feels like more of a boss rush to me. The back half of the game is overloaded with minibosses, often repeated bosses, and while that means they aren't essential, realistically you're not going want to miss anything, so you're just going through areas you've already been to take out bosses, which just feels a bit off in terms of pacing.


Anyway there was an incredible run at AGDQ last night of someone playing it blindfolded.

[Crenners]

I loved the challenge of mastering the last couple of bosses and the guy up the tower halfway through but it wasn't fun to explore the areas, and I have almost no fond memories of playing the game. It's entirely lacking in personality or mystique.

As a massive FROM fan, it was strange that I didn't really feel excited by it before release but the 'one and done' design philosophy felt disappointing, and so it was. I've tried to go back a few times and felt bored.

Beyond the prescriptive stealth, the game is so mechanically undercooked. Dragonrot is pointless, clearly unfinished. The skill tree and weapon upgrades make almost no difference to the game. The beads that increase your attack power mean nothing at all.

Worst of all for me is that there's nothing really to master beyond L1 timing. There's no way and no real need to approach the game differently. It's just a QTE/rhythm game test. There's no need, benefit or motivation to even take out the enemies in the stages because there's nothing to upgrade, really. If you just grapple past everything and steamroll the bosses, you'll get what you need.

I have to be honest, the more I see of Elden Ring, the less it appeals to me, as well. I know their games are never technical monsters but the art direction looks very familiar, very last-gen and very DS3 engine. After Demon's on PS5, albeit it's a much more limited game, I'm not really up for the stuttering 54fps frame pacing, nor am I very interested in skipping through the environments on a horse. I'd much much rather smaller, tighter areas than lots and lots of nothing much.

[Barry Admin]

If you find yourself at a disadvantage, it's usually worth disengaging, finding cover, and waiting for everyone to calm down.

I fucking hate that about this kind of stealth, though. The change in music, having to run and grapple away far enough, then sitting there waiting for the dramatic music to fuck off. Not a fun loop.

And... your stealth isn't even that great at the start anyway. You have to effectively upgrade your opponnents ability to ignore you.

[Dickie_Anders]

The idea that this game is "lacking in personality or mystique" is just insane to me. Weird esoteric shinto buddhist shit out the arse, I love it

Also the upgrades and beads don't mean anything at all? Did we play the same game? Agree about Dragonrot though

The game excels at rhythmic heart-attack inducing fights. They're brilliant, and it isn't restricted to just pressing "L1". I'll never get tired of jumping over a sweep and kicking a cunt in the head. Or the mikiri counters
You don't have the option of putting on heavy armour or using a big shield and tanking enemies like Dark Souls, but it's definitely trying to be a more straightforward action game so that criticism doesn't really apply imo

Outside of the fights what it also does extraordinarily well is cinematic-looking levels and situations. Love the bit where you jump down into that valley outside the gun fortress and there are a hundred snipers gunning for you

[Thursday]

You don't have the option of putting on heavy armour or using a big shield and tanking enemies like Dark Souls, but it's definitely trying to be a more straightforward action game so that criticism doesn't really apply imo

Just to be clear, I don't think of this as a criticism so much, it's just a preference thing.

[Barry Admin]

Aieee, that's the sort of post that will keep me going @Dickie_Anders - sounds great and makes me want to play again.

I really wanna get into the combat and am practicing with that bloke a lot, but when I get into a fight I find that I'm basically just stood still, mostly. Why? Cause I'm concentrating on either pressing LB to deflect, or B for a Mikiri counter.

However I went through some training again yesterday and am now integrating more dodge counters.

[Dickie_Anders]

I think most players have to get over that hurdle of constantly spamming deflect because they're terrified they're gonna get caught off-guard. I think it was Lady Butterfly where I fully learnt to just go with the flow and just react to the enemy animations

[Barry Admin]

I think most players have to get over that hurdle of constantly spamming deflect because they're terrified they're gonna get caught off-guard. I think it was Lady Butterfly where I fully learnt to just go with the flow and just react to the enemy animations

Is there any more tips you can think of? I do find it very hard to hold lists in my head, so learning boss patterns and that kind of thing is generally very difficult.

I've started to look for the light glinting off the sword, and figure that's a cue. I dunno, I guess I'll just keep trying and hope to get more fluid with it all.

[Dickie_Anders]

Using prosthetics/skills is a big help against quite a few bosses/mini-bosses. I used the axe quite a bit because it's helpful in stunning them and re-setting their animations. Quite a few prosthetics/skills give free flesh wounds which are important in this game. In general you wanna get their HP down a bit at the start of the fight then start abusing their posture bars with deflections/mikiri counters/jumps etc.

[Thursday]

I have to be honest, the more I see of Elden Ring, the less it appeals to me, as well. I know their games are never technical monsters but the art direction looks very familiar, very last-gen and very DS3 engine. After Demon's on PS5, albeit it's a much more limited game, I'm not really up for the stuttering 54fps frame pacing, nor am I very interested in skipping through the environments on a horse. I'd much much rather smaller, tighter areas than lots and lots of nothing much.

I've mentioned that I wasn't particularly excited for Elden Ring, but getting into the network test got me hyped up, and it's not even that your fears are wrong, it's just that once it was in my hands I was starting to enjoy the rhythm's again. There's aspects I'm not sure I'm into like crafting, and other open world aspects, but what that means is there's more exploration, and secrets to discover. And the fact that's it's almost an anthology collection, mixing up bits of Souls, Bloodborne and Sekiro, means you do get a bit of that patchwork feel of DS2.

Will definitely be curious to see just how much is left to be revealed, whether there'll still be a lot more tightly designed areas (like the castle from the network test.) Or if there'll just be a small handful and it's mostly just more mini-chalice dungeon type areas spread across caves on the open world map. 

[oggyraiding]

I admire it for not being yet another formulaic SoulsBorne style game, and is instead more of a pure action-stealth game.

At the same time I don't enjoy it because it's not another formulaic SoulsBorne style game but with a Japanese locale.

[Barry Admin]

The action music when you break stealth is now the thing I hate most in the entire ever.

[brat-sampson]

Pfft, easy game.

You can beat it with your eyes closed.

[The Crumb]

I like it overall, but really struggled with the last boss, although found the evil route much easier before finishing the main game.

Agree with what's been said about about it being very limited in a way, the combat is exacting but doesn't feel very broad or deep. Not helped for me by the ninja tools not being all that, especially with the non-replenishing spirit emblems. It's not hot any real build variety, and compared to Nioh or Ninja Gaiden you've got a very limited set of moves. It also feels like the game sets you up as a shinobi but just wants you to go toe to toe like a samurai.

I think the setting's nicely done, although hits a lot more familiar notes than usual for From. I did find the more paranormal elements and beast enemies were a weak part of the game, especially the section of the game where you're killing loads of monkeys for some reason. I wish they'd gone for a more grounded story and kept the enemies broadly human.