You're Wrong About (Podcast)

[paruses]

This was recommended by either @Norton Canes or @Gurke and Hare or @gilbertharding (or someone else) but I can't remember when.

It's two American journos (Sarah Marshall and Mark <sorry I've forgotten>) taking a topic and discussing it with the idea of debunking myths around it. It goes all the way back to about 2018 so plenty to catch up on. Some of them are a bit too Americo-centric for me to get into (After School Specials springs to mind) but on the whole very enjoyable. I think they're about 15 years younger than me so straddle a generation I just don't understand and my generation that has entrenched views I'm obvs very familiar with. as a result I hear takes my peers wouldn't necessarily have and enjoy having my views gently knocked about and enlightened.

If anyone else is a listener and can recommend some episodes to cherry pick that would be great.

Also thanks for the recommendation.

[Pink Gregory]

Michael Hobbes left the podcast a few months ago and currently does a similar pod about health fads and misconceptions (it's called Maitenance Phase)

Haven't properly listened to the recent Wrong Abouts but I remember the True Crime one being interesting.

The reading series on the Satanic Panic have been quite good

[paruses]

Thanks. I feel bad I didn't even get his first name right. I skipped the Satanic Panic one as was a bit saturated from the Jon Ronson podcast (which I remember is where the original recommendation came from ). I'll go back to that though. I have to admit that I do like true crime ones. The Jeffrey Dharmer one was good.

Edit - it was @gilbertharding that recommended it I can see. Thanks. Note I am explicitly not thanking the other two in the OP.

[gilbertharding]

Couple I'd recommend:

The MacDonald's Coffee one is a fairly recent one which ought, really, to have been one of their first ones.

There's a Maintenance Phase Bonus Episode called The Great Protein Fiasco which was surprisingly interesting.

One called Cancel Culture from Jun 2021, and Political Correctness from April 2021.

A couple of episodes from Feb 2021 about Tipper Gore vs Heavy Metal.

The Y2K Bug (May 2020)

I mean, loads of stuff. On the other hand, they've done like dozens of episodes about OJ Simpson and Princess Diana which I'm not really interested in, and frankly intimidated by the evident size of the subject...

[Icehaven]

Also been dipping into these since the recommendation in the Jon Ronson thread, very much enjoyed most of them after getting used to a few of the inevitable podcast bugbears (Marshall's vocal fry can be a bit grating) but generally the rapid pace and density of information really keeps it interesting and makes the hour or so (it varies) fly. Definitely benefits from being longer rather than shoehorned into half an hour (Ronson take note). Highlights for me have been the Tonya Harding two parter, The one about Postal Workers shooting their colleagues, Stockholm Syndrome, Jonestown Massacre, Jeffrey Dahmer, Multiple Personality Disorder, A Dingoes Got My Baby, Terry Schiavo, Chandra Levy, and I'm currently halfway through the DC Snipers four parter and that's very good so far. I've skipped a lot of the ones that didn't immediately grab me though though so will probably go back and listen to a few more older ones later on.

Sorry to hear Hobbes has left it though, hope it wasn't acrimonious?

[Icehaven]

The Y2K Bug (May 2020)

Oh yep I forgot that one and I only listened to it a few days ago! That's a good one though.

[gilbertharding]

Sorry to hear Hobbes has left it though, hope it wasn't acrimonious?

There seems to be some ongoing cross-pollination with the Maintenance Phase podcast, which Hobbes co-hosts, so I guess not, but I don't know.

[pigamus]

It would be cool to have a general podcast recommendations thread, across all genres - but I know how much Barry hates list threads

[MojoJojo]

Sorry to hear Hobbes has left it though, hope it wasn't acrimonious?

Officially not, and I haven't heard any rumours of anything. Hobbes basically said he wasn't enthusiastic about it anymore and wanted to stop before that became evident in the output. They increased the number they were releasing during the pandemic and I think that burnt him out a bit.

Unfortunately I haven't really enjoyed any I've tried since he left - the dynamic hasn't been working for me.

I liked the Iran-Contra one - being mostly ignorant about it before. The Challenger Disaster has an interesting take that I hadn't heard before. Yoko Ono one was good.

Basically binged them all in 2020 - looking back now spotting lots of good ones but I can't really remember which were outstanding. Got through the Princess Diana ones, gave up about 10 episodes into the O.J. Simpson ones.

[Pink Gregory]

I think the problem with the OJ Simpson ones is that it's not part of a consecutive series like the Princess Diana 5 parter is.  Like they'd have some unrelated epiosodes and then a random OJ one and then you've got to remember all of the moving pieces and it's a bit much to ask unless you're familiar with it.  Seemed an odd way of doing it.

[MojoJojo]

I think it's just too long. A relatively short series that covered the core of it would be better, and then a lot of the detail could have been hung off episodes afterwards. Like the Kato Kaelin's life story stuff was quite interesting, but having including it before it gets to trial just slows the pace to a crawl.

[popcorn]

This sounded interesting so I tried the episode about the Dixie Chicks controversy.

I thought this was going to be a sort of fact-based investigatory thing, maybe a bit like Snopes, but I thought it came off as yet another cringey smug lefty podcast. I mean, I'm a cringey smug lefty guy, but the episode I listened to amounted to one person saying "And here's what this rightwing nutjob said..." and the other person responding "No!" or "Gasp!" or "facepalm" for two hours.

[mr. logic]

There's a really stupid moment in one of the OJ ones. She's talking about the Toobin book, challenging one of his assertions. This is before his whole scandal and she says something like, 'I'm prepared to challenge him in the arena of manly arts.' - As if at that point Toobin was some blustering alpha male instead of a tweedy, lawyerly academic.

I don't know. It just struck as really smug and point missing on her part. Toobin researched the subject, added his legal expertise and came out with a well written and interesting book. He wasn't beating his chest like a gorilla and I couldn't understand why she should be any more qualified to delve into the subject and form opinions than he was.

And the little non-sequitur starts to the episodes too. They're both well-informed and obviously good journalists but I had to stop listening. Maybe one day I'll go back and choose an interesting looking one. I was faintly hooked for a while- it's a good concept.

[Uncle TechTip]

I agree it's just way too long, the McDonald's coffee one being a good example. Over an hour to discover that yes, a lady sued over spilt coffee, but it wasn't as it seemed, and she was likely justified, and it also happened to someone else once.

The newsboys one was more interesting as this had a full story to carry us through.

[MojoJojo]

I agree it's just way too long, the McDonald's coffee one being a good example. Over an hour to discover that yes, a lady sued over spilt coffee, but it wasn't as it seemed, and she was likely justified, and it also happened to someone else once.

They covered how the US has sort of chosen an approach where large corporations can be sued by private citizens for damages, rather than having regulatory bodies do it. But that's been followed by the press promoting stories like the McDonald's coffee one and a narrative of litigation gone mad, which has ended up with the amount that citizens can sue for being greatly limited.

I think you're probably right about it being too long, but it's ok if you enjoy the dynamic between Mike and Sarah. Which might explain why I've not enjoyed it since Mike left.

[The Always Red Society]

I definitely agree with some of the criticisms and it's a podcast I dip into rather than listen to every week, but the best episodes are fantastic. I think it perhaps suffers from trying to keep producing regular episodes, as the most interesting ones are where one of them has done a huge amount of background research on a subject.

I particularly enjoy the episodes where they debunk shitty psychology which somehow became accepted.

I highly recommend the Stanford Prison Experiment one, and the Kitty Genovese/Bystander Apathy one.

[Icehaven]

I finished the the DC sniper four-parter a few weeks ago and just watched the recent C4 documentary on it to compare (didn't actually realise at first that that was 6 hour long episodes either but ended up watching them all.) The documentary is a lot less sympathetic towards Malvo than YWA was, and unless I've misremembered while they only made a passing reference to him claiming he was sexually abused by Mohammed, the documentary focuses very much towards the end on how he's actually come out*, and considered them to be in a relationship.


*although that might have been after the YWA episode.

[paruses]

Might give that one a go next.

Just finished listening to the Jim/Tammy Baker one. It's not something particularly in my cultural orbit but as a generic shitty way the world works it's interesting.

Am halfway through the Challenger disaster and finding it quite compelling.

[IsavedLatin]

I fucking love YWA, and I really respect them calling a halt to a successful format when they did, but I was very saddened by the Hobbes announcement at the time it was made -- I think the most upset I've been about a podcast pairing since Adam and Joe parted ways. Still I did believe them entirely about the non-acrimony of the split (@MojoJojo's assessment chimes with my own read of the situation).

As others have said, post-Hobbes YWA episodes have not scratched the itch for me whatever. Has anyone listened to Maintenance Phase much? I've soldiered on with it, despite finding Hobbes's choice to continue that simply mystifying: Gordon is fine and well-intentioned and whatever, but she isn't remotely up to Marshall's mark as a host. I say this as someone who found Marshall's voice/fry thing and particularly that laugh very hard to get on with initially, but she is astonishingly articulate, in a completely fluid, spontaneous way that I think is remarkable. I also feel that the deeply empathetic note she strikes in almost all their discussions quite moving; they were a nice pair to have a parasocial relationship with during lockdowns.

I just find it baffling that Hobbes could have two separate podcasts on the go with both Gordon and Marshall and feel that Gordon's the one to go all-in on. HE's wrong about, eh, readers?!!?

My YWA besties: DC Snipers; Diana mini-series; a lot of the OJ stuff but especially the Nicole Brown episodes; Tammy Faye; Tipper Gore; Tonya Harding; Kitty Genovese.

[IsavedLatin]

It would be cool to have a general podcast recommendations thread, across all genres - but I know how much Barry hates list threads

I am feeling that my podcast feed is quite moribund at the moment and would enjoy such a thing, would anyone brave enough to start such a thing!

[chip]

It's a good pod; I love deep dives into cultural misconceptions. The most recent one, about Tom Cruise jumping on Oprah's sofa, was a good listen. The guest was alright too. Not much new insight I can provide that hasn't already been mentioned, tbf.

Miffed that I couldn't the first to make a pithy remark about the vocal fry - it's absolute poison. Hobbes's too. Sentences starting "so, ..." all over the shop. Still stuck through a decent chunk of the episodes though - the content was just that interesting!

If anyone knows any podcasts that cover similar topics with more palatable host voices, I'm all ears.

[MojoJojo]

I just find it baffling that Hobbes could have two separate podcasts on the go with both Gordon and Marshall and feel that Gordon's the one to go all-in on. HE's wrong about, eh, readers?!!?

Gordon is much better at keeping things to one episode - just looking at YWA, and Mike mostly keeps things to one episode, and Maintenance phase is mostly single episodes. I do wonder if he got frustrated with Marshall sprawling rambles.

A lot of this goes back to the pressure they put themselves under to create content during lockdown.

This maybe my own prejudices kicking in a bit though - I've developed a bit of bug bear about podcasters being lazy about editing and being concise.

[paruses]

The obesity epidemic one is really good. The health is better than weight conclusion is a bit basic and obvious but the culture aspects and diet misconceptions the cover on the way are interesting - loved the snippet about The Scarsdale Diet.

It would be cool to have a general podcast recommendations thread, across all genres - but I know how much Barry hates list threads

Did I say I agreed with this? Maybe a pinned thread just for people to post current top 5s they're enjoying and the odd gem that they find.

I need to clear out my podcast feed list. I will tell everyone I am curating the feed though. Unfortunately I am a hoarder at heart so stuff I haven't listened to for literally years has the same value as bits of wood that might be useful k or shirts I definitely will slim back into.

[MojoJojo]

Neil doesn't like big "things" threads - and there have been some for podcasts before, but they don't really work well as people just post recommendations without much discussion. Might be better to go for themed threads, as somewhere between one massive thread and individual threads. So like s history podcast thread, a fiction one etc...

I can't think what TWA goes under though.

The obesity epidemic one is really good. The health is better than weight conclusion is a bit basic and obvious but the culture aspects and diet misconceptions the cover on the way are interesting

I find it a bit frustrating - Hobbes makes good points about how we really don't know how to help people lose weight, and a lot of shaming goes on, but he uses some really dodgy stats to downplay the health problems of being overweright.

Like he has one he uses in maintenance phase which I think he also uses in the obesity epidemic one, where he say some thing like "30% of overweight people don't have bad health markers and 30% non-overweight people have bad health markers".

1) So 70% of overweight people have bad heath markers, compared to 30% non-overweight people. Doesn't sound so good when put that way does it?
2) Even if those numbers were better, it fundamentally misrepresents what a "health marker" is. A health marker is something that can be measured and correlates with some health effect - life expectancy, heart attack etc. How being overweight correlates with health markers is a misleading thing to do because being overweight is itself a health marker. Correlating obesity with other health markers is a distraction from the directly measurable effects it has on health e.g. 3 years off life expectancy.

[paruses]

Fair point about the big list thread. Suppose after 6 months you're just scrolling through mentions which you can do in an app anyway. Dedicated Theme ones is not a bad idea. But yea I remember the other podcast threads just become useless.

Those 30% stats he read out did sound like clangers that's true. I even remember thinking I would consciously ignore that bit as it was going on.

[Dr Marbles]

It's a good pod; I love deep dives into cultural misconceptions. The most recent one, about Tom Cruise jumping on Oprah's sofa, was a good listen. The guest was alright too. Not much new insight I can provide that hasn't already been mentioned, tbf.

Miffed that I couldn't the first to make a pithy remark about the vocal fry - it's absolute poison. Hobbes's too. Sentences starting "so, ..." all over the shop. Still stuck through a decent chunk of the episodes though - the content was just that interesting!

If anyone knows any podcasts that cover similar topics with more palatable host voices, I'm all ears.

I'd had the Tom Cruise episode recommended to me so gave it a listen but have to agree with the vocal fry - it's so bad that you do think 'is this actually a parody?' in the way that the promos for US podcasts at the end of Beef and Dairy all sound like deliberately shit parodies but are in fact real podcasts that the presenters presumably think are good.

Also have to agree with this being far too long - the actual answer (Cruise jumping on the sofa was a callback to him standing on a chair at a charity do Oprah was at) was covered in literally one sentence about halfway through, with no build up or follow on. The rest of it was telling us who Tom Cruise was. There was an interesting allusion to the fact that this was one of the first 'things that happened on TV going viral on the internet' and so people saw it shorn of context but still, nowhere near an hour's worth in this.

[Icehaven]

I'm still working my way through older episodes but I'm not sure I'll bother once I get up to where Hobbes leaves, by the sounds of it.

[Pink Gregory]

Yeah, I hate to say it, but without an effusive co host like Hobbes, Marshall kind of loses all direction.

[KennyMonster]

I've subscribed to this too.

They're OK, even the ones that are unfamiliar stories that didn't travel abroad are interesting enough to listen to, so far at least, (I've just heard the 'Duke Lacrosse Team' rape trial one).

The Iran Contra Scandal episode managed to not fall into the hole that many US "progressives" would have which is reassuring (i.e., many Americans who are described as 'on the left' have a blind spot that American foreign affairs are good and noble when the country gets all fighty abroad).

One hill that I do keep dying on though is that these are professional journalists but Calvin Hobbes - the man one - regularly says
"It's not that big of a deal.........."

ugh!